873 replies to this topic

[Wundai]

Yes Merccy I have played all AOE games way up to the Titans Expansion, then they introduced guns and it lost its appeal to me.

But its a very cool series indeed

Nazgûl:

Ok I'll search the forums thanks for the search term

[Mercyy]

@ Naz:
I know about that, but perhaps another change?


@ Wundai:
I've only played AoE II

[Wundai]

Btw Hälsat

What did you think of the trade Idea Naz?

@Merccy You don't know what your missing

[Biermann]

Dude, you made me feel like I was 13 years old again...hahahaha
This trade system would be a HUGE improvement in BFME economic sistem. This would make having allies in the map really useful, not only a barrier ("meat shield") between you and the enemy. It could be done as said, a marketplace (MotW already have one) and some merchant caravans. And if possible, they could trade not just gold, but food and others.

BFME I and II are too military focused, and since the base estabilished is pretended to represent a city, mabye could be inserted a resource gathering? Like a quarry (could be the dwarven speciality), a lumbermill and farms (for the factions without a food production structure)? Because is a bit unlogical that the buildings are made from the money gathered from farms and mines, if isn't too hard to place at least 2 more resources (to buildings, at least wood and stone, to units, later could be added food, and mabye even iron) in the game. Some upgrades could improve this gathering and giving each faction a speciality (or mabye a stealing speciality). I think that this would increase the strategy aspect os the game, if it isn't too hard to be coded.

Wow I gess I gone really far with this AoE idea

Edited by Biermann, 25 October 2007 - 12:38 PM.

[Nazgûl]

@ Naz:
I know about that, but perhaps another change?

Hehe there will be changes bayond Gollum, but this first step was a HUGE improvement alone. And for this Beta you'll have to settle with that But for Beta V we'll go for more changes, even if those will be "easier" compared to the very advanced Gollum re-coding =) You'll find all the info on this in the RingHero thread...

Btw Hälsat
What did you think of the trade Idea Naz?

Don't think I haven't thought about that ages ago... . My all time favourite strategy game is Settlers IV (and to some extent Settlers VI), and in those games, trading is essential. It also creates a nice bond between allies that goes further that military assistance, like someone said here =) However, this would recuire some serious coding from Sûl, and atm there's no room for anything else than the release of Beta 4.5.

I'll talk with Sul about this trading idea since you sprung it back to life in my head, but have no high hopes for it. Coding-wise I beleive it would be dreadful to implement, since we would not only need new units (we could use porters though) but we would need new parts of the OSD/GUI to manage this. I mean a lot of it... I could do the art for sure, but I doubt Sûl would be up for such a major coding task. I love the idea, and I love it much more than the old (and probably obsolete) Library idea, but I think it would be too difficult. Too bad EA couldn't hire us, and assist us in production with such things...

[Wundai]

^ lol please don't corrupt yourselves by joining the EA Goblins You seem to be doing fine for yourselves

Thanks for the answer And ehm.. I'll try not to get my hopes up too much. *Crosses Fingers*

[LordEcthelion]

Hey all! I just got this mod and I think that it is AMAZING!!!!
I just wanted to suggest that maybe you could speed up build times for such units as goblin warriors, archers, drummers, orc warriors, and other low-powered evil units. I think that it's rather absurd to have swarming units that take two minutes to spawn. Sorry if this has already been suggested, butif you'd consider it, it would be great.

[Nazgûl]

Nah, it's only been suggested about... lemme see... 736 times by now? Give or take one or two...

Anyway, welcome, and I'm glad you like the mod. As we speak - my Head Coder is putting together a new system that ensures that the Barrack's upgrades will give proper buildtime bonuses when leveling up...

Moria Faction (Goblins) however is already double the production speed as other factions...

[Mercyy]

The Problem til now is, that you can still rush and that is the best strategy.
That is because you soon get strong units, especially Siegeunits.
My first idea to solve the Problem is: Do it like in CnC Generals

First you're only allowed to build Farms.
If you have a farm, you're allowed to build your Buildings to train troops.
After that you're allowed to build your Forge. And only if you have a forge, you can build a Siege Workshop.
Cause then you have only "weak" troops in the start and until you have Siegeunits the enemy has a better Defence, too.


The second Idea would be: Do it a bit like AoE(just played it for 2 hours^^).
You don't have to do it the same with the ages.
But such Upgrades in your Fortress would be cool.
First you can only build normal Soldiers and Archers and you can only build your basic buildings.
If you have some of the Buildings you're allowed to buy the Upgrade for the next "age".(I would prefer another name, but I haven't found one til now).
After this Upgrade all your Units are stronger and you have some new buildings.
After that you can build another upgrade (The 3rd age; t3a ).
With this last upgrade your Units will be as strong as they are now. And you're allowed to build Siege units, more fortresses (til this upgrade you're only allowed to have one fortress and can only build a new when you one is destroyed; with the last age you get the chance to build more fortresses).


I would love the second "Idea". Because then you can't kill the other Player in the beginning, cause your units are too weak. If you have the first upgrade, you can attack the enemy, but it is very hard to kill him, cause your units are still not so strong.
With the last upgrade you have the units, like they are in the game and your siege units and then you can attack and kill the enemy easier. (Siegeunits like rams could be already available after the first upgrade, cause you can easily kill them, if you have units around your citadell).



I think this idea will have many enemys, but I just wanted to say this, cause I saw that on one Map in BfmE II years ago and liked the idea^^

[Biermann]

I think that this would make the factions too similar, something that I hated from AoE. But the economic sistem, if could be implemented, with resources like gold, stone, wood and food (mabye more, if could be add), real resouces to estabilish a camp, all the factions having lumbermills, quarrys, mines and farms and trading to obtain all of those goods. This would really rock the BFME sistem, and make this mod the best mod for bfme ever!

[Nazgûl]

Actually... .We've talked about it. And with some luck, we might be able to implement a SIMPLE economy system for Beta V... This will initially be based on the Cart from BFME1 though. My wish is this...

- You send a cart (using a Porter) to any ally containing "resources".
- The cart travles (sometimes) across enemy territory and can be killed.
- If killed the cart drops some small crates, like the ones from Creeps/Lairs and the "cash" can be grabbed by anyone.
- If the cart makes it to the allies base, it enters the fortress and a certain amount of cash is delivered to the ally...

Something like that...

[Mercyy]

@ Biermann:
No, I don't think so.
The only thing all factions would have new are this upgrades.

If you have no Upgrade, all factions are only allowed to build the basic units.
They would be still the same like in SEE now.
In the last age all factions will have all the units/buildings, they have in the normal game/SEE.
Why should they be too similar to each other with that idea?

I think that with this Ressources is hard codet=> you can't change it, if you don't bey a programm and the license for a few thousands €

But I must say, that with this Idea all factions would be more similar to each other
They would all have the same Ressourcesbuildings. BUT I would like this idea too ^^



@ Nazgul:
So you send a cart to your ally and he gets the money?


This could be an argument between two people:
"I won't sent you a cart, til you have send me one too"
"Cmon, you have already build one, so send it to me."
"But then you would get money and I won't get money
"Okok, I build a cart and send it to you"

But it sounds nice and it's still a cool idea. And for the people, who won't send there carts to allies... don't mind ^^

what's wwith my two ideas?^^

[Nazgûl]

Yeah I agree... it would probably mean some arguing amongst human allies.. hehe. But I see it more as a little cute addition to the game, where you can help an ally that is not progressing as good as you by sending some resources... =) For the AI, it would probably mean some kind of scripting that makes the most rich ally send a certain percentage to the least rich ally.

[Wundai]

I like your cart system idea Naz...Oh maybe thats because its the same as mine

Merccy, your idea about units and ages, I would like being able to build better units in a later age, and one more thing, siege units be build in the last age is a pretty good idea!

This takes away RUSHING totally, since every player builds walls in the first age to counter units attacking them, and players will only attack after that when they have build Siege Units(the rest don't do enough damage). Then you can really create a siege on a castle, because nobody would risk going in with 2 catapults and some men.
And so you create "big army VS big army" battles instead of just little skirmishes, good thinking mate

[Lord of the Rings Junkie]

Yeah I agree... it would probably mean some arguing amongst human allies.. hehe. But I see it more as a little cute addition to the game, where you can help an ally that is not progressing as good as you by sending some resources... =) For the AI, it would probably mean some kind of scripting that makes the most rich ally send a certain percentage to the least rich ally.

You realize you can pay tribute to human allies already? Hit the tab key while in a network game.

[Nazgûl]

Yes I know... But this would be a more graphical way

[Biermann]

I mean, all the factions would have to have very similar units for balace the game. And regarding resources all races need food, stone, wood and gold

Naz - Would we be able to estabilish routes?, because would be a little boring to select and send the porter every time to the ally's fortress.
What about creating a Market for all the races?

[Nazgûl]

If we ever get to actually start working on ANY kind of economy system, we'll need to discuss this in a separate thread, after Beta 4.5... =)

[Guess Who]

How is beta 4.5 going.

[Nazgûl]

Progress HERE!