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Executor Or Superior?


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Poll: Determine The Class Of These SSDs

Which ships are true, 19-km, Executor-class star dreadnoughts?

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Which ships are true, 19-km, Executor-class star dreadnoughts?

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#1 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 06:50 PM

As I'm working on rigging the Executor-class, I've been pondering the true class of some of these "super star destroyers". The canon has clearly failed us on the Executor: first it was 8000 meters, then 12800 meters, and finally (hopefully...) 19000 meters. The deciding source for the final length reads as follows:

Q: In Starships of the Galaxy, the Executor (Vader's Super Star Destroyer) is listed with a length of 8,000 meters, but in the text it's described as being eight times the length of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which would be 12,800 meters. Which is correct?
A: Actually, they're both wrong because the official size of Super Star Destroyers has been revised. Thus, here's some official errata: The Executor is 19,000 meters long, as are all Super Star Destroyers of the same class.

Well, that's nice for the Executor, but very few of the other ships are described as being of "Executor-class"; rather, they're "Super Star Destroyers". It's been established that there exists a distinct class from the Executor known as the Super- (unofficial slang) or Superior-class (surmised official name, in matching the -or suffix rule of many of the Empire's destroyers), which is nearly indistinguishable from the Executor except that it maintains the original length of 8000 meters. For comparison, I've converted the stats for this class even though it's not in the mod:

Posted Image
Superior-class

8000 m

40 MGLT
4 MGLT/s
2 DPF
2.0x

40000 SBD
19040 RU

250 heavy turbolaser cannons
250 turbolaser cannons
250 turboion cannons
250 (30) heavy concussion missile launchers
40 tractor beam projectors

Posted Image
Executor-class

19000 m

32 MGLT
4 MGLT/s
1 DPF
2.0x

96000 SBD
45712 RU

2000 heavy turbolaser cannons
2000 turbolaser cannons
250 heavy turboion cannons
500 point-defense laser cannons
250 (30) heavy concussion missile launchers
40 tractor beam projectors

There are no official sources that explicitly state the classes of the remaining SSDs, so the issue is effectively undecided. Given the circumstances of their deployment and destruction, which of the SSDs do you think properly belong to the Executor-class? Ships you do not check should, by default, belong to the weaker Superior-class (exceptions include Enforcer, Whelm, and perhaps Aggressor). I've given the Lusankya a pass because she is the sister ship of the Executor and must therefore be of 19 kilometer length, but the remaining ships are up for grabs. Which should be some of the most fearsome in the galaxy and which should be "mere" star battleships?

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 28 November 2007 - 07:25 PM.


#2 sideshow_bob

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:31 PM

I believe that all of the empire's "super-sized" were unique in some respect, and that therefore there cannot be simple classes

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#3 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 09:22 PM

Well, certainly. So were many Imperial-class Star Destroyers, but that doesn't not make them Imperial-class Star Destroyers, however modified.

#4 Guest_Guest_Mike_*_*

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 12:51 AM

Do you use the Star Wars Technical Commentaries
http://theforce.net/swtc/index.html

#5 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 01:47 AM

I'm a fan of Saxton most of the time, yeah. You can definitely see the influence in my work; the ardent pursuit of statistical purity :mad2:. In a lot of ways, it's about making the GFFA more sci-fi than fantasy.

#6 Pred the Penguin

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 10:55 AM

Aggressor might be one, maybe even Annihilator. I'm not really sure...

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#7 Guest_Guest_Ghostrider_*_*

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 01:32 PM

These lists lists might help

http://starwars.wiki...ar_Dreadnoughts

http://starwars.wiki...Star_Destroyers

According to: http://starwars.wiki...tar_Dreadnought and
The above, the following are confirmed as Executor Class:
Aggressor
Annihilator
Executor
Guardian
Iron Fist
Knight Hammer (with stealth armour)
Razor's Kiss
Reaper
Terror
Unnamed (over Fondor)
Vengeance (note there is also a superior class named Vengeance)

Intimidator is listed under executor class but looks like Superior class

The following link gives names of all super star destroyers (the colloquial term including Superior/Executor/Soverign and Eclipse dreadnoughts)

http://starwars.wiki..._Star_Destroyer

By elimination, the following are probably Superior Class
Allegiance
Aramadia
Intimadator
Megador
Vengeance
Whelm

Autarch, Despot and Heresiarch are the only named Soverign Class ships (but were never built after Palpatine's final death)

Hope this helps!

;)

#8 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 02:21 PM

Hm, no, not really what I was looking for. The people at Wookieepedia are a bit overzealous and have basically changed all SSD ships to Executor-class based on the aforementioned quote and the assumption that no Superiors were ever produced. As you can see, that isn't necessarily the case, although yes, it very well could be, but don't base your votes on Wookieepedia because it's really inconclusive. For most of the ships, you can cite reasons for it to be either, such as for the Vengeance, it's clearly in the range of 19 km on the box art, but specifically 8 km in-game. I'm more interested in which deserve to be Executors and which do not, as yes, I could've just read Wookieepedia myself.

Some minor notes:

  • Allegiance belongs to its own class in the star cruiser range.
  • I strongly believe the SSD Aramadia is a publishing error and therefore erroneous, because it has the history of the Intimidator/Pride of Yevetha and the name of a thrustship, both of which served as Nil Spaar's flagship.
  • I haven't found anything that would restrict Megador to a certain class other than the engine count of 16 (Executors only have 13 and Superiors even less), but I'm not caught up that far in my reading yet either.


#9 Guest_Obi1_*

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 04:16 PM

From where do you get the hull and shield rating for the ships?

#10 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 04:58 PM

X-wing Alliance for the Executor and the Superior is just a scalar from that.

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 05:35 PM

Ok - deserve to be Executor class - now that's a challenge because even the books don't use the term Executor Class - for example all the Rogue squadron books and also the Champions of the Force just use the Term Super Star Destroyer.
So Razor's Kiss and Knight Hammer are both uncertain.

For me I would say yes to Knight Hammer because the books describe it in parallel with Lusyanka and Executor, but I can't remember those references when discussing Razor's Kiss. Considering the Razor's Kiss was at first described as just a Star Destroyer and later upgraded to 'Super' class, there is a good argument that it was 'only' Superior, especially as the later Executor class models featured more heavily armored viewports, which may be able to withstand Han's concussion missile attacks.

From the screenshots shown on this link http://starwars.wiki...tar_Dreadnought, there is even some doubt on the 'Terror' as it looks too small in comparison to the ISD, making me believe it is Superior, despite the extended block behind the command bridge.

Similarly, Guardian looks to be a different shape to Vengeance (broader compared to length), so from these shots I would suggest:

Executor class:
Lusyanka
Knight Hammer
Vengeance
Annihilator

Superior Class
Razor's Kiss
Terror
Guardian
Intimidator (does not look like Executor class)

#12 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 07:23 PM

(In my best Palpatine impersonation) Good! This is what I was looking for.

I think Lusankya is the easiest to classify because it was intended to be confused with the Executor, having been constructed in unison, so it could be forgotten. Plus it was specifically known as "Executor II".

I would agree on the Executor status of Knight Hammer, if only due to the immense cost of construction - what was it, 77 something billion? If Imperial-class Star Destroyers cost around 1 billion, it had better be 19 kilometers at that cost, even with the modifications. Also the advanced armor (probably similar to Singularity's) and other state-of-the-art systems point towards the larger size (why waste it on a lesser ship). Finally, the explosion of so many torpedoes from the inside could indicate a sturdier hull. I thought I read that the Falcon somehow went inside the Executor's hangars in the RotJ novel and unleashed hell, but that didn't cripple her.

An interesting note on the Guardian: I'm pretty sure it's specifically stated in the NJO that Lusankya is the most powerful ship in NR control after Coruscant fell. That would indicate that either it was more modified (I've found indications of hull and shield additions), or more likely, the Guardian is simply smaller.

That shot of Intimidator is actually a picture of the Executor model from ESB, so it's probably the angle if it looks weird.

#13 Guest_StarWars_*

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 09:26 PM

Superior Class
Razor's Kiss

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :)
Now Thrawn will either have to ride in a Superior-class Star Destroyer :good: or Phoenix could make him with a different Executor-class Star Destroyer, I think the Razor's Kiss was probably an Executor-class Star Destroyer though...since it was built by Kuat, and if Kuat wanted to protect itself still, why just make a Superior Class, when they probably had enough cash to make an Executor-class Star Destroyer

#14 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 11:33 PM

I don't have any other alternative, so it's still Executor-class in the mod. The only restriction on the Kiss is that it has to be the same class as the Iron Fist because of Second Death. So I guess the question is, could Solo Fleet take on an Executor? Not without "a few maneuvers" on Solo's part, that's for sure. But it's a tough call...

#15 Guest_Guest_Ghostrider_*_*

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 12:40 PM

Superior Class
Razor's Kiss

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :)
Now Thrawn will either have to ride in a Superior-class Star Destroyer :good: or Phoenix could make him with a different Executor-class Star Destroyer, I think the Razor's Kiss was probably an Executor-class Star Destroyer though...since it was built by Kuat, and if Kuat wanted to protect itself still, why just make a Superior Class, when they probably had enough cash to make an Executor-class Star Destroyer


Sorry, My mistake

I meant Zinj's Iron Fist as the Superior - not Razor's Kiss.

In the first mention of Iron Fist, It is just a Star Destroyer, while later it is upgrade to 'Super' Status. But I guess it has to be Superior for reasons stated above. Besides. Zinj did'nt do that much damage with it, just hit and fades. If he had an Excecutor class i can imagine that megalomaniac causing Much more random damage. Compare the impact of Lusyanka in the hands of Isard with Zinj (who was also extremely intelligent) and there is no comparison on the impact each ship had. Therefore Iron Fist must be Superior.

I can't comment on Razor's Kiss cos I don't know anything about it.

#16 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 05:29 PM

Yeah, he always seemed to be running away with the damn SSD rather than attacking with it. Makes you wonder if it was even fully crewed or operational.

#17 Invadious

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 06:41 PM

MAN executor all they WAY!!! :)

#18 Guest_Stele_*

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:33 AM

Yeah, he always seemed to be running away with the damn SSD rather than attacking with it. Makes you wonder if it was even fully crewed or operational.

I suspect you guys are missing the point here. The point is, Solo had "the Force". "The Force" in this case is George Lucas, and it's not exactly a mystery as to which side he is on. Most Star Wars products go backwards - they start at the conclusion, which is (obviously) that the Empire/Imperials lost, and work from there, finding some halfbaked reason for why this is the case. Zsinj never had a chance - he could have been on the Death Star III, and he'd still have lost.

With regards to Executor/Super, I'd go with the Wookieepedia line, if for no other reason than armaments. If you look at it, Super has something to the effect of 40% of Executor's length, but only 20% of her weapons emplacments. Even allowing for the fact that a smaller ship wouldn't be expected to have the corresponding percentage of weapons of a larger vessel, that ship looks undergunned to me. Building it would be a waste of time.

#19 Pred the Penguin

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 01:43 PM

No reason for Zsinj not to try and conquer Coruscant if Iron Fist was actually an Executor...

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#20 EduardPais

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:22 PM

The name "Super-class Star Destroyer" was invented by Imperial Navy officials and used in its budget requests to the Imperial Senate during the design and construction phase of the Executor-class Star Dreadnought. This ruse was made to hide the true nature of the class, even going so far as to understate its size and armament, so that oversight committees would not discover its true role.


They were all Executor-class ssd, aside from the Vengeance SSD which looked different.



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