189 replies to this topic

[robnkarla]

Well, I thought I'd post a topic for this as it seems that I am constantly running into the limit of upgrades. For those who don't know, there is a limit to the number of upgrades that can be used in the game, and I've overhauled the mod on at least 2 occaisions to trim as much of the fat out of the non-CaH areas of the game to free up 100s of upgrades. Now it seems like I'm running into the wall again and wanted to get everyone's opinion.

1 - Keep it as is - I'll have to go through the whole mod again and try to squeeze out more upgrades where I possibly can in order to add more of what I was planning. (I'll be doing this no matter what, but it might not be enough upgrades.)

2 - Trim it down - Instead of just going through the normal mod, this would mean I would go through the CaH area and trimming out the lesser used items to free upgrades.

3 - Remove it completely - CaH uses 100s of upgrades. I'd probably take the approach of number 2, but this would just mean that I remove the ability to use CaH in matches so you can't select them. A couple of reasons - CaH is tremendously difficult to balance, only 8 factions will ever be able to use CaH, and it's been a very long time since I've played with CaH in MP matches.

Just thought I'd check to see what everyone thinks. If any coder out there wants to go through and figure out how to trim down CaH without losing functionality that would be best. From what I can tell it's bloated and can probably be trimmed considerably, but I just have not had the time to spend on it. (Or at least have wanted to spend the time on it, yet).

Robert J.

Edited by robnkarla, 05 February 2008 - 07:02 PM.

[Shikari]

I don't mind if it's removed completely. In fact, I'd welcome it, as its imbalanced and not tolkien like at all.

[Black Dragon]

I'd prefer it to be left in as a choice to people. Considering their is the option to disable them for a game I think its best to let the host decide. Sometimes create a hero can add a bit more balance for factions who's heroes are not as strong. For instance I had a game Angmar Vs Gondor and without my CaH i'd have lost alot sooner.

I do not fully understand what the problem is however Rob, is it balance thats the issue or is there a max amount of upgrades you can have which means the CaH is hogging a considerable amount of them. May I ask what sort of upgrades your hoping to implement should CaH be removed?

[robnkarla]

The biggest issue revolves around CaH hogging all of the upgrades. There are things I want to implement with the factions, units, and AI that requires upgrades and I'm just about out of them again.

For instance, let's just say I'm overhauling the elves as an example.

Robert J.

[dojob]

I never use them anymore so I wouldn't mind if you got rid of them...

[Devon]

Get rid of it, but possibly add a place to suggest some premade CaH's to use, like 5 or so?

[Thorongil45]

haven's used CAH for months now. if it'd help improve the mod, i'd say get rid of it completely. and anybody who wants CAH can play the base game.

[Gothmog14]

Create-a-hero is bloody awful. They're insanely imbalanced, and don't fit with Tolkien lore. So many times I've lost an MP match because someone was abusing an Elf Archer or Men of the West CaH that I never play matches with them. Not to mention all of their powers (except one, the Word of Animals one, which you could always give to one of the Blue Wizards or something) are already on existing heroes, and there are very clear options on what to take to create the best hero (either way I think you should give that Oil Spill power to something else in the game, it's so much fun). Since it'd be gone you could use some models for new heroes to.

It's a definite "get rid of it" for me, but I know there'd be a whole bunch of people (not here, just like Warcraft players who've come to BFME or something) that will get pissed off if it's taken away, so it's a tough choice.

BTW, what do you mean by upgrades? Like Forged Blades/Heavy Armor/Banner upgrades, or is it all upgrades in general (or something else)?

[Lauri]

keep it as-is I say

as for upgrades, I don't know what's the big problem...
You make 10 upgardes for heroes\units\ect... Upgrade_Level1, Upgrade_Level2, ect...
Then you make for things that cost, like in-game upgrades for units...
I didn't think the limit was set to like, 30 more than what is now

[Xingdao Fan]

Remove it completely.
I used CaHs because there were so many Middle-Earth heroes missing in the game. RJ-RotWK added most of those missing heroes. Not to mention that CaHs are imba.

Edited by Xingdao Fan, 05 February 2008 - 09:42 PM.

[robnkarla]

keep it as-is I say

as for upgrades, I don't know what's the big problem...
You make 10 upgardes for heroes\units\ect... Upgrade_Level1, Upgrade_Level2, ect...
Then you make for things that cost, like in-game upgrades for units...
I didn't think the limit was set to like, 30 more than what is now

Yeah, that's one of the things I've already done......I've gone through nearly all of the experiencelevels.ini file and changed everything to objectlevelupgrade1, 2, ....10.

One of the biggest things that I can't/don't want to change are the equipment upgrades/building upgrades as especially now with the buildings upgrading with experience most of the them I want to keep uniqu. For others I've wanted to leave them so when they are purchased the eva is correct along with the appropriate text.

There are still probably a bunch I can cut, but with essentially 4 factions added and essentially a couple more on the slate they seemed to be used up fairly quickly.

Either way I've got a lot of re-organizing to do to compact them again.

Robert J.

EDIT #2: Screenshots removed to be added soon in a new topic.

Edited by robnkarla, 05 February 2008 - 11:34 PM.

[Black Dragon]

i'd much rather have create a hero but without the uber powers. OR, we cap the abilities to level 1 only, so a CaH can only get level 1 powers making them less uber but still useful.

[JEV3]

If its a problem, I'd remove CaH completely and perhaps salvage only the most necessary stuff.

Edited by JEV3, 05 February 2008 - 10:19 PM.

[Grizzlez]

Ye i think it should be removed-especially as this mod offers so much no-one will need them. Then you are able to use some of their stuff if you want to create other units etc.

[Black Dragon]

I guess re-thinking about it, given the amount that is added to this mod a CaH isn't that big a deal. Also, by removing CaH we do also gain abilities that most units just don't use t hat they use. Few heroes (nor non) have the lightning strike, rage, earthquake etc. And it may also allow you to insert these powers to the newer heroes that lack any unique abilities.

[Funbomb]

I'd say take them away completely because CaH are too imba because they could take out a ring hero if they have the right skills and they could be glitched too. Also if you play more real competitive matches they don't use CaH becuase how imba they are.

[Allathar]

I'd say take it away. Never play with them anyway, because of the imbalance. If people want to use CaH they just have to use the base-game.

[Argolis]

Strip the whole thing out. For the amount of effort needed to make CaH into what anyone ever wanted it to be, given the limitations, its simply not worth it (ill likely do the same myself when i start pushing the upgrade cap).

[Rafv Nin IV]

I don't play any RJ matches with the CAH. Once all the new heros are settled with skillsets and bug-free, there will hardly be any reason to use CAH. Besides, if you want to play as a CAH, you can always play the unmodded game. Take it out.