8 replies to this topic

[Corsair114]

Is there any chance of getting the TIE Phantom returned to Empire's roster as a stealth unit and dropping the ability from the Lambda-class shuttles (ok, they don't have to lose it, but they might need to for balance sake if the Phantom is added)?

This would fill an important (at least in GC) role of a scout ship/stealth pathfinder for me... and that's really about it. It'd probably be of only moderate usefulness in dog fighting (maybe make one of its later upgrades turn two of its laser cannons int swiveled laser cannons, and perhaps later still add a launcher for magpulse warheads[concussion missiles or proton torpedos don't seem to me as though they'd fit with its "elite specialist" role]).

[Tropical Bob]

I've always kind of wanted the TIE Phantom back in as well. If I remember correctly, it's pretty much complete, except for maybe the hardpoints.

As far as specialization goes, the IPV is a much better scout in my opinion, since it does so at a range. So really the graces of the TIE Phantom are more in surprise than scouting, even though it does do a good job in that field. You may be right about the magpulse warheads. They'd be a nice surprise weapon for a heavy ship.

[Ghostrider]

As far as new unit additions go, we really need to consider the relative use of the unit across all the campaigns.

As you add units, you potentially bloat the mod, so new additions need to be considered carefully.
This means looking at the both the unit timeline and it's general availability.

The more widespread a unit's availability in both time and space (i.e. multiple eras and a variety of worlds), the more likely a unit is going to be considered for the mod.

Finally, the unit's general tactical qualities need to be considered and compared to other units in the mod. There is not much point in adding a unit when its role is already well covered by another more common unit, for example.


As far as I can recall, the TIE Phantom was a prototype unit, and required stygium for it's cloaking device. I'm pretty sure that stygium is exceptionally rare and the references in the planet files seem to suggest that the planets with stygium mines have been mined out and resources depleted, making stygium an horrendously rare (and expensive) material, probably only available on the black market.
Look at the lengths Thrawn went to to get cloaking devices and see how carefully he used them.

With this in mind, I cannot see how the TIE Phantom would ever become a mainstream unit for general production (like all other units in the mod), especially as it featured in a single mission after the Battle of Yavin, resulting in the destruction of all examples of this technology.

If we ever do a mid-GCW-era campaign, we might be able to look at this as a one-off addition, but I can't see it being added at the moment.
Besides, the price tag is for a single starfighter is probably equivalent to a medium cruiser!

Ghost

[Phoenix Rising]

Well, I wouldn't worry about the TIE Phantom, or any other distinct unit, bloating the mod. You know, if we can't add new units, then what's the point of doing this all?

That said, I have no plans to make the Phantom a regular buildable unit on the tech tree (you won't see normal units with mag pulse warheads either). As Ghost pointed out, there's no one reason why this is the case; it comes down to a bunch of factors, including everything from the state of the Imperial fighter roster to Rebel Assault 2 just not being a very compelling story. Simply, there were better alternatives.

It could show up in starting forces though; the only reason it hasn't thus far is because we haven't had any need for it. To be fair, there really is a very small window in which we can use it. If we do a 3 ABY campaign, I'll make sure to add Aeten II and the TIE Phantom. That's about the best I can do.

[Tropical Bob]

There are multiple different resources that offer cloaking technology, if I remember correctly. One way to get around that is to have a lifetime build limit of something small, and as you upgrade, that personifies researching into utilizing those resources more efficiently, as well as finding new ones, or perhaps, upon the final upgrade, the ability to replicate the resource in a lab. All of it would be horribly expensive, as mentioned. But, hey, it'd be fun.

But alas!, PR has spoken. If there are any campaigns after 3 ABY, couldn't it be a player choice, perhaps, to reboot the TIE Phantom line?

[feld]

I've always kind of wanted the TIE Phantom back in as well. If I remember correctly, it's pretty much complete, except for maybe the hardpoints.

As far as specialization goes, the IPV is a much better scout in my opinion, since it does so at a range. So really the graces of the TIE Phantom are more in surprise than scouting, even though it does do a good job in that field. You may be right about the magpulse warheads. They'd be a nice surprise weapon for a heavy ship.

I'm (so far) entirely an Imperial player myself. I'm agnostic on the TIE Phantom...but I use the following solutions to the Imps scouting problem. You might enjoy them too.
1. I often send recon lines consisting of a few Carracks, corvettes, and/or Bayonets to scout the space around a system. Sometimes I'll just use a single Bayonet. Blastboats are my favorite light space recon platform in the Outer Rim campaigns due to their lower cost and general availability.

2. The new hero mechanic in v1.2 looks like it'll give the Imps a few more options for scouting. Cronal with the Singularity is a pretty terrifying scouting unit. He basically tells you everything about the target world, including but not limited to, the governor's favorite color.

3. I often play "Vader-style". Send out probots. Curse poor sensor resolution and incomplete data given by Arakyd droid brains. Find Rebels. Jump the biggest baddest fleet you can to that location confident that the Dark Side of the Force will see you through to victory. Kill your Admiral for incompetance. Lather, rinse, repeat until win. Yeah...I know...strictly speaking this doesn't solve the scouting problem but ignores it. I'm big into canon though (which is why I like PR) and it seems to me that this is a very "Imperial" way of doing business. Not always operationally wise...but hey, these are the guys who thought that snub fighters couldn't hurt their Death Star - overconfidence is their weakness. Playing this way was very frustrating at first because I'm a pretty cautious strategist - I like hard intel. But, once I got over myself, it really changed the way I played the game. I think for the better. Dunno - you might like it.

v/r
feld

Edited by feld, 05 February 2010 - 02:17 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

There are multiple different resources that offer cloaking technology, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, the stygium isn't really the issue - remember, they blew up Aeten II, so there's a planet's worth of it somewhere in the galaxy (certainly they didn't use it all on a handful of TIE Phantoms). I'm more concerned about the game interface. The Empire already has 10 Star Base 1 units and 5 transports, plus whatever stations can be built. All of those show up on the bottom row, where there are only 13 build spaces. If we can ever overcome that obstacle, I'd certainly reconsider on the Phantom, but for now, we're pretty much set with fighters and bombers (with one exception, not counting the CSA).

[evilbobthebob]

Apparently SOTE managed to add new buttons to the interface. Whether these would expand the build space is another question; I did a trial of a simple copy/paste expansion of the build/select bar, which resulted in rather strange bugs...but this isn't the topic to be discussing that.

[Tropical Bob]

I'm (so far) entirely an Imperial player myself. I'm agnostic on the TIE Phantom...but I use the following solutions to the Imps scouting problem. You might enjoy them too.
1. I often send recon lines consisting of a few Carracks, corvettes, and/or Bayonets to scout the space around a system. Sometimes I'll just use a single Bayonet. Blastboats are my favorite light space recon platform in the Outer Rim campaigns due to their lower cost and general availability.

If I use any scouts in my attacks, it's an IPV or two to sensor ping.

2. The new hero mechanic in v1.2 looks like it'll give the Imps a few more options for scouting. Cronal with the Singularity is a pretty terrifying scouting unit. He basically tells you everything about the target world, including but not limited to, the governor's favorite color.

Ah, we were talking about Galactic scouting then. In that case, the TIE Phantom would probably become a key scouting unit.

3. I often play "Vader-style". Send out probots. Curse poor sensor resolution and incomplete data given by Arakyd droid brains. Find Rebels. Jump the biggest baddest fleet you can to that location confident that the Dark Side of the Force will see you through to victory. Kill your Admiral for incompetance. Lather, rinse, repeat until win. Yeah...I know...strictly speaking this doesn't solve the scouting problem but ignores it. I'm big into canon though (which is why I like PR) and it seems to me that this is a very "Imperial" way of doing business. Not always operationally wise...but hey, these are the guys who thought that snub fighters couldn't hurt their Death Star - overconfidence is their weakness. Playing this way was very frustrating at first because I'm a pretty cautious strategist - I like hard intel. But, once I got over myself, it really changed the way I played the game. I think for the better. Dunno - you might like it.

Don't worry feld, you're not the only one. That's how I play, too.