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Dawn Of Skirmish v1.1 is LIVE! Yipee!


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#21 Guest_oozish_*

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 08:31 PM

Holy smokes! Just finished a 1vs1 on battlemarshes vs. Eldar on INSANE, and got completely smoked..had to drop down to HARDER and it was a very tough battle. I got to the Eldar before they could get to Tier 2 but they played alot smarter (before eldar were very weak on this map). I see a huge improvement in the latest build, especially for smaller, 1vs1 maps.

I'm very excited, seems like something was tweaked that really knocked up the AI aggression a notch; and it's working well. INSANE is way too hard, for me anyway, they stormed my base before I was even tier two with their mechs and tier 2 mech units... I'm still not seeing ANY warp spiders tho, what's up with that?

I'm very excited, this is what it's all about, great work! I'll get more detailed after some more plays, i've been pretty busy last 2 days.

#22 thudo

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 08:58 PM

Super.. had a feeling my latest tweaks helped out. Yaaa Larkin was looking into why the Eldar never wanted to build Dark Reapers/Warp Spiders although you have to remember Oozish that the AIs now have 6 army types to choose from so it reflects a human player and how he wants to span certain units. I wish I could get the Eldar to spam more Reapers/Spiders but thats for myself and hopefully Flenser/Corsix to decide.

Nevertheless, fabulous it worked! So glad its a super challenge now but please keep testing.

I have to regroup the team since Larkin left on his "walkabout" but since the latest build is such a challenge then we're making huge strides!
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#23 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 11:11 PM

Note that I will follow improvement of the mod and certainly will play a game against AI now and than. What I won't do is to spend endless hours coding/testing/coding/...

If you have questions and need a tip or two I will certainly try to help according to my quickly fading knowledge of the code.

#24 thudo

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 12:37 AM

Thanks Guest.. err. Larkin.. we'll be in touch.. Have some things on that objectives list we may consult with you on.

Take it easy there..
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#25 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 03:40 AM

Been testing for roughly 2 hours now, and just as Oozish observed the AI is a lot more aggressive. However, in some cases, it appeared the AI was slow to retake any LPs I'd stolen from it, thus hurting it's economy, and instead of leaving a squad behind to retake a point, it would send an assault at me (albeit a decent assault, but in the long run this sort of behavior can cost the AI matches). I'll go for another hour or two for the night and bring up anything else that bothers me (gonna try and go through every map tonight)

#26 Guest_Markoso_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 03:41 AM

Whoops, that last post was mine >_< Also, dunno if the AI takes such things into account, but warpspiders pretty much suck vs. SMs and Chaos, unless the eldar player is trying to take out your buildings quickly.

Edited by Markoso, 01 May 2005 - 04:07 AM.


#27 Guest_oozish_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 01:20 PM

Just played a game on RAilway, SM SM...I was interested to see what would happen on this smaller map...we still both teched to tier 2 and it was definately the most fun I've had on that map evahr! ;)

The AI had me on the defensive at first, luckily I had the lowermost (south position) so really good base defense abilities with turrets. My original goal was to tech fast to AM as they can own on this map, but with an early offensive the AI brought a squad plus FC plus a few scouts and drove me down into my base where I barely escaped and lost my FC. With 2 criticals down I rebuilt my forces with a FC and SM and retook the North critical vs. some scouts...now with a barracks. I thought I could start an assault at this time, but I was surprised to see they had already built a Machine Cult and dreadnaught was lumbering toward me! Very cool.

I had a dreadnaught on the way, however, and my missile/plasma squad helped take them down qucikly, but I coult NOT take the strategic point outside their base after 3 attempts!

This is just plain cool...much more challenging and involving than before. I sent some scouts to the other critical and it was unguardeds, so they took it down and eventually I just out resourced the "AI...sending in the dreads and a hellfire or two with my 2 reinforced squads pounding away at whatever they could to help the dreads. Surprised, I lost 3-4 dreads, but again my economy was really chugging away nicely.

A very different experience than I was used too...especially as the AI had put 2 turrets in their base that helped defend that strategic point I was trying to take, and it took me a while to take those down too. That was a smart use of turrets I'd say.

I do have a replay if anyone cares to see. I thought the Ai Played well, I must say I am impressed...it seemed they had a predisposition to tech up quickly in this case.

The problem was they would build a FC and send him into my troups/dreads solo..I think I killed 3 of them. I doubt it's possible to have the FC wait till some troops can back h im up, or a dread or something, but that would have helped. I think the AI was focusing on making dreads at the time.

It would have helped them too to retake the critical south of their base (in the wide open area) where I had only 2 scouts sitting there...is there code for that priority? 1 squad could have done it. Of course I was camped right outside their base to the north, so Ai must have been thinking about that. :p

Edited by oozish, 01 May 2005 - 01:24 PM.


#28 Guest_oozish_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 01:26 PM

on a side not, thud, how do you think the new patch will effect your mod?

#29 thudo

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 02:31 PM

The AI is designed to have his Commanders "link up" with another squad when hurt. This can be tweaked. Yes he should NEVER send a Commander in by himself. Dunno why he never captured the lower Critical Point (he always captures everything in sight on the map).

As for the patch effecting the scripts - doubt it but I'm sure it can be fixed if there are probs.

Thanks OOzish.. glad the feedback is super-glowing now. Glowing = good!
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#30 Guest_oozish_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 02:47 PM

The AI is designed to have his Commanders "link up" with another squad when hurt. This can be tweaked. Yes he should NEVER send a Commander in by himself. Dunno why he never captured the lower Critical Point (he always captures everything in sight on the map).

As for the patch effecting the scripts - doubt it but I'm sure it can be fixed if there are probs.

Thanks OOzish.. glad the feedback is super-glowing now. Glowing = good!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


He DID capture that south critical, but I took it back after he left, and he never tried to take it again (1x is a charm?). I left 2 scouts there for the heck of it and they weren't harrassed for the rest of the game.

I guess the FC couldn't link up with a squad because there was no squad (save scouts) to link to, the AI was busy making dreads. The AI really did a good job as far as base defense goes with the placement of 1 missile turret and 1 reg. turret diagonal from the top right strategic point, if you know where I'm saying. However, I can't help but think that that req...spent on marines, could have changed things (see point above about FC). ;)


It was a cool game.

Edited by oozish, 01 May 2005 - 02:52 PM.


#31 Guest_oozish_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 02:53 PM

Download Link

There, see for yourself if you care to.

#32 Guest_oozish_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 03:13 PM

oh, thud, also, if you look at about the 13 minute mark, you can see the multiple grenade bug.
I think they throw a grendade(s) about 4 times; at least 3 right in a row.

#33 Guest_oozish_*

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 08:09 PM

hey...just finished a battle vs. Eldar on Deadmans crossing, HARDER, as usual....me in the south start point...I think I have a good strat on this level with encroaching quickly on the enemies strategic points across the river, but even so the Eldar sucked hard on this map. It was almost no resistance as I made my way slowly into their base. I had dreadnaughts and the Eldar had...what, scouts and guardians? There were some mech's in their base but they just sat there while my whirlwind bombed away.

I noticed the guardians doing a running back and forth thing, kindof like the reports on the chaos defilers. Just running left then right then left again.

This battle was pretty pathetic, a real let down compared to my previous two. I think what I want noted with this is that running sideways bug, and it seems the Eldar make alot of scouts and not enough infantry of other sorts (just guardians and scouts)....what were they doing?

replay availabe but this was just a massacre.

#34 thudo

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 02:16 AM

I think we have to watch commenting about the AI on certain maps as DoW AI is inheritently having issues on certain 1vs1 maps. When you team our AI up 2vs2 and up its where it really shines. However, having said that here is an interesting update I posted on relicnews:

UPDATE: I've done considerable work "cleaning up" the squadlimits in the latest build. Will finalize some testing then send it so the beta guys can have a word with it. Basically, I totally revamped the # of troops + re-organized it to be super-easy to make editing changes (from a scripting standpoint) so future modders can easily configure it to their liking. I'm super-pleased the way it turned out.

A quick example:

 standard = 
 	 {
    eldar_squad_bonesinger = 0,
    eldar_guardian_squad = 1,
    eldar_squad_rangers = 1,
    eldar_squad_banshees = 1,
    eldar_squad_dark_reapers = 4,
    eldar_squad_warp_spider = 5,
    eldar_squad_seer_council = 1,
    eldar_squad_farseer = 1,
    eldar_squad_grav_platform = 2,
    eldar_squad_grav_platform_brightlance = 2,
    eldar_squad_falcon_grav_tank = 2,
    eldar_squad_vypers = 2,
    eldar_squad_wraithlord = 3,
    eldar_squad_fire_prism = 2,
    eldar_squad_avatar = 1,
Note how the infantry/vehicles are lined up in sequence based on when they are used and their importance (Commander units at the end of the infantry sequence).

The values for each have now been made more logically as there was some critical flaws. The above list basically means any value attached to a squad the AI can only build up to that number on the battlefield at one time. So the Eldar AI if he choose this squadlimit list he would only be allowed to field, say, 1 Ranger squad in operation at once. Useful to know since Eldar need the most work due to the issues with the Eldar AI researching Dark Reaper and Warp Spider aspect stones then creating squads of them. Still working this long outstanding issue out.

Tomorrow I'll start getting the AI squad back on track to begin fleshing out our new objectives. We have 4+ months before expansion + v1.3 upgrade around the bend so I'm hoping we can get lots done.

Edited by thudo, 02 May 2005 - 02:23 AM.

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#35 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 02:25 AM

That's genuis Thud! :blink:

#36 thudo

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 04:35 AM

hey.. don't forget to login people! I'd like to know who these "anonymous" people are! :blink:

Btw, tried the Eldar with the new changes - WORKING NOW! He'll attack now with Dark Reapers/Warp Spiders far more often now and its a bitch!!! Tried Battle Marshes 1vs1 on HARDER and it was bloody rough!!!! Will package the latest build in a zip for you beta testers in an hour or two. Look for it and test away!
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#37 LarkinVB

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 06:27 AM

Why do you think sorting the squads in this list will make eldar build more reapers/spiders ? Its just because you limited banshees to 1, not because the AI is better in choosing spiders against orks. Problem is still there. I also think you can remove engineers/commanders from the list as they are not affected by it.

#38 Guest_Markoso_*

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 12:04 PM

Ack, just as I finish a bout of testing a new version is released. In any case, I'll go ahead and concentrate on testing the Eldar AI, review the replays, and post any input\weird happenings.

#39 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 12:38 PM

hey.. don't forget to login people! I'd like to know who these "anonymous" people are! :dry:

Btw, tried the Eldar with the new changes - WORKING NOW! He'll attack now with Dark Reapers/Warp Spiders far more often now and its a bitch!!! Tried Battle Marshes 1vs1 on HARDER and it was bloody rough!!!! Will package the latest build in a zip for you beta testers in an hour or two. Look for it and test away!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I've been trying to login with firefox a few times unsuccessfully, it just doesn't work; and I got that 'anonymous..go away gerbil' message...so that might have been me. I can get in via IE though, so even though I don't use that I'll use it to access your ftp from now on.

Lemme know when the new build is up?

Thanks.

#40 thudo

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 12:39 PM

Why do you think sorting the squads in this list will make eldar build more reapers/spiders ? Its just because you limited banshees to 1, not because the AI is better in choosing spiders against orks. Problem is still there. I also think you can remove engineers/commanders from the list as they are not affected by it.

Actually, this was one of your original tweaks and its working again. I am seeing both Dark Reapers and Warp Spiders much MUCH earlier now. Mind you, I can tolerate between 1-2 Banshee squads on the map at once for now. I"ll let the beta testers decide the rest.. :dry:
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