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[UPDATE] New Objectives List v1.3


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#1 thudo

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 06:30 PM

Our post v1.2 Objectives List for your consideration..

Minor Scripting
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1] Removable of bug where AI squads can throw multiple grenades/bombs without the cooldown - Larkin

2] AI Squads that Dance when playing against human opponents - Larkin

3] AI Squads should pursue enemies who are near defeat and deliever the final deathblow rather than halt the advance

4] AI Squads should better attack in large numbers rather than sacrifice single weak squads instead

5] Eldar AI - try to get either DR or WSes out quicker at gamestart

6] Eldar or other AI - flexible research tree - Larkin/Flenser

7] Eldar AI - advanced SkirmishPlan code (more vehicles used, smarter hit&run) - Flenser

8] Test to see the effect of starting the AddonPlan a little later so LP addons aren't preventing more early squad creation

9] AI Engineers/Builders should not build buildings in an area under attack. They should wait, assess, and when threat passes then build

10] Reserve power for building up to an uber unit (Avatar, Bloodthirster, Squiggoth) on HARDER+ skills (Standard AI Skill still builds the most ubers!) - Thudo: "This works, but sometimes the AI will stop doing anything after a time, wait til I attack him, then build the uber unit and just walk right over me!" Will test this.

11] Send idle engineers (if there are no strat points to capture) to the nearest SAFE strategy point



Medium Scripting
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

12] Determine why AIs allied on a human team build up and attack more slowly than on a exclusively AI team

13] Assassinate - Ensure Commander Unit is kept away OR minimizes his exposure to combat (AI still keeps his Commander too involved in combat and, on average, gets him/her killed) - Flenser

14] Control Area/Take And Hold - Ensure continued AI aggression under both these victory conditions - Flenser

15] Allow AI to recreate his HQ on another unthreaten Listening Post if his original HQ is destroyed - Flenser/Larkin

16] Creates a secondary HQ + unit production buildings w/ defensive turrets (optional) all built away from the enemy - Flenser/Larkin



Post-Expansion Scripting
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

o Engineers that repair buildings (using between 1-2 Engineers for Space Marines, Chaos, and Eldar - Ork buildings already auto-heal)

o Transporting infantry into combat using transports

o Build 2-3 turrets around Large Generators

o Determine how to get the AI to use such things as Infiltrate and the Squiggoth's Rampage (both not standard abilities)

o Inter AI communications between alliance games (better AI team coordination when defending fellow allies and assaulting enemy bases/LPs)

Edited by thudo, 27 July 2005 - 07:02 PM.

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#2 oozish

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 08:23 PM

Build 2-3 turrets around Large Generators


heheh....i sense an impending controversy...

#3 thudo

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 08:35 PM

Oh silly... :p thats for down the road + Tacit was informed about this. Its low priority anyway. Mind you, one game I played I saw the AI build a barracks right beside a Big Generator! Wow.. first time ever saw the buildspace be used around one! >GasP!< Kodak moment!!
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#4 oozish

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:24 PM

well, true enough...Whenever I've had the excess resources to build one, I usually have more than enough requisition to lay down 2-3 (usually 2 chain and 1 missile) turret around it to protect it. I can't see leaving a squad around one.

so despite outward appearances, I would side for this option anyways. lol

#5 Quitch

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 10:39 PM

Build 2-3 turrets around Large Generators


Oh Jesus, not this again! This isn't Warcraft III! Stop trying to find something that's the equivalent of expansions! There is a very select time for a turret to be built, under very exact circumstances, but you would almost never build more than one, certainly no more than two, and you really wouldn't put them by your big generator.

If you have "spare resources" lying around to build them then:

a) You've already won (i.e. max cap, max tech, max buildings).

b) You've lost all your troop producing buildings and the AI should just resign.

You may build a turret, but it would be well before you ever bought a generator. Turrets are an emergency fall back for when you've just taken a real beating and you need something to dance around. Usually placed around the HQ somewhere, they can then be upgraded to missiles should you not be ready when some light vehicles appear.

Frankly though, they're uses are so niche that you're better off simply not using them until you've very carefully studied replays where they decided the game.

Edited by Quitch, 27 July 2005 - 10:42 PM.


#6 oozish

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 10:44 PM

Build 2-3 turrets around Large Generators


Oh Jesus, not this again! This isn't Warcraft III! Stop trying to find something that's the equivalent of expansions! There is a very select time for a turret to be built, under very exact circumstances, but you would almost never build more than one, certainly no more than two, and you really wouldn't put them by your big generator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Meeting of Minds...late game...I'm encamped around his base and have map control...I build big gen. in vulnerable position facing center of map...I have more than enough resources to build defense just because....build 3 turrets around big gen...meanwhile orbital relay is stoked with dreads and my terminators are ready to drop....

That's a normal situation in Ai vs. Human game bro...nothing to freak out about.

#7 oozish

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 10:48 PM

Turrets are an emergency fall back for when you've just taken a real beating and you need something to dance around. Usually placed around the HQ somewhere, they can then be upgraded to missiles should you not be ready when some light vehicles appear.


By the time light vehicles are coming into your base you'd better hope you have stronger defense than turret/missile turret. In the meantime, your resources early game are better spent on something else, just like you said. I think this branch is more in response to a resource surplus like I"ve stated above..which really won't effect the game at all since in all liklihood the outcome is already decided by the time these options go into effect. The problem with turrets early game, as I'm sure you're aware, is they are just too easy to mow down after a simply weapons upgrade from ranged stance. Really, turrets should have better range than the marines upgraded weapons, then we'd be talking about defense. :p

Edited by oozish, 27 July 2005 - 10:49 PM.


#8 thudo

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 11:08 PM

Quitch.. what the hell.. ? We've put turrets in AS A FRILL. We put Ubers in since its A FRILL. Its all about if the AI has the resources he'll build turrets and uber same as a SM AI getting to LandRaiders. Yer point being?

Gawd.. you make one comment about turrets and its feeding time. Shhhesshhh! I thought we were past all that since we have strict restrictions on turrets.

And damn it UBER are **NOT** a waste of time kuzz..

a) Its a FRILL like turrets so by the time the AI can get em he's raking in coin so yer dead anyway since you let him get to that point. If AI doesn't have coin, then he won't build.
b) They have turned the tide of battle - what DoW games are you playing for cripes sake? Yes they are big magnets but so WTF? Tie up the enemy attacking it and mob them up with the regular forces. No rocket science. They serve a purpose.

Look.. we've come to v1.2 with a track record so I think we're heading in the right direction. We're doing things based on our beta testers. Late game is turrets, ubers, and general ownage for the AI. Why argue when we should be concerned about early game where thats where everything is dictated?
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#9 Excedrin

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 11:17 PM

Why argue when we should be concerned about early game where thats where everything is dictated?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quoted for truth. Worry about late game when the AI's capable of reaching late game.

#10 thudo

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 11:32 PM

Exactly.. DoW and most RTSes for the PC are everything about early game. Just a given. Garnish the early territorial captures and exploit the resources fast and late-game is gold. Its not even worth debating uber and late-game turrets - they're all frills now and more a technical achievement. At least the AI isn't forced to waste resources on them (ubers have strict requirements for built as well as LP turrets). In other words, its all bloody good shiet. :p
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#11 oozish

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 03:21 AM

What thud said....

#12 LarkinVB

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 06:09 AM

I vote for building a ring of turrets around the eldar avatar. Will protect him and disallow attack moves which will waste his life !

#13 LarkinVB

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 06:11 AM

Here is my current changelog. Crash bug (CDT) is preventing delivery of code. Damned !

Changelog

1. Hopefully fixed and improved dancing.
2. More flexible research order. Specific squad researches will only be made if
two or more squads of that type are on the battlefield.
3. Eldars try to get best aspect warriors out as soon as possible.
4. Hopefully fixed multiple greneade bug.
5. Dying farseer tries mindwar on regular squad if no enemy commander is around.
6. Apothecary/dok will attached more often. Doks will only attach to CC squads.
7. Bonesinger try to jump to build location if possible.
8. Raised threat ranges to secure squads/builders.
9. Changed modifier of Flensers variable attack rating from +75/-50 to +100/-100
10. Reduced squad/support cap triggers to prevent early cap limit researches/webways.
11. Third engineer will only be build if cap max > 14.
12. LP addons will only be build if cap max > 14.
13. Eldar shrine will only be build if aspect squad is available.
14. Raised turret tolerance to 200.

#14 oozish

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 12:41 PM

I vote for building a ring of turrets around the eldar avatar. Will protect him and disallow attack moves which will waste his life !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


LOL
Your changelog looks great! :mellow: I wonder how that LP change will affect things? I have a feeling strike forces will have an easier time in base, but the aggression of the AI will mean my base is underattack quickly as well, and there will be more enemy units...which will be interesting to see how the hi-tech strat of flying in ASM's for crippling strike works out; and of course the ever-luvin' ranger rush. However, with rangers, once LP's are fortified they'll never take them/break them...

Looking forward to these changes!

Will there still be enemy units kept in base? In leu of Tier 2 lps?

Edited by oozish, 28 July 2005 - 12:47 PM.


#15 thudo

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 01:29 PM

I hope the thing about the Avatar was sarcasm. :mellow: If an Avatar is let loose and dies, we have the following:
a) Those units still out on the field built due to the Avatar's presence may still be there even when he's gone, and (most importantly)..
b) As per our discussion on uber/turrets - by the time he gets to have an Avatar, yer practically dead. It comes back to - "you allow the AI to tech to the highest tier = righteous ownage is you!" There should be no need to protect anything at that stage - all cards are dealt and you might as well call ! har ha!

Very ambitious changlog there, Larkin! Love those changes!
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#16 Flenser

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 02:41 PM

4.  Hopefully fixed multiple greneade bug.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very interested to see how you did that :mellow:

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#17 LarkinVB

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 02:45 PM

I picked up Excedrins idea und removed flaws (hope so).

I note down time of successfull execution and don't allow consecutive execution within 30 secs.

#18 LarkinVB

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 02:47 PM

I hope the thing about the Avatar was sarcasm.


Of course NOT ! I also vote for placing the avatar near a big generator and building a ring of turrets around both ! Not talking about minefields here ...

#19 Flenser

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 03:09 PM

I picked up Excedrins idea und removed flaws (hope so).

I note down time of successfull execution and don't allow consecutive execution within 30 secs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice :mellow: And does it work, or are you still testing?

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#20 thudo

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 03:15 PM

Yes yer joking.. Doesn't that sound rather Un-Larkin like? Where is Larkin?!? I demand you, alien imposter, BRING BACK CLASSIC LARKIN ! ! !

I don't get whats wrong with sending him out for some royal butt kicking?
1) He's out in the field giving the Eldar bonuses anyway
2) Even if he dies the Eldar AI at that point is uber with coinage so he'll just make another and another. Hiding him seems rather silly. No?
3) Early-mid game is far more important to the AI - anything late-game is just frilly, fun stuff.
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