72 replies to this topic

[DieKlette]

As I can see so far you've done a great job.

Three things to mention... .

1.The repairing of vehicles is very buggy. The vehicles never stay at their place. Moving around the HQ makes ist impossible for the builder to repair. I often saw Space Marines only fighting with infantry because their whole cybots and tanks werde dancin' around an HQ.

2.Also,
most of the time Space Marines on hard, expert and insane start fighting with jumptroops. They do not build tactical squads until they are at the end of tier 2 or still in tier 3.

That's way too late. The easiest way to take out firewarriors is to have someone scouting and then to take them out with heavy boltars.(That's my expierience so far)

3.The special abillity shot from the Tau's missile tank ist extremly heavy. I know you do nothing about balancing. But it is very important that the enemy sqauds try to avoid to get hit by it.

Thank's

for the good work.

Greatings

Julian

Edited by DieKlette, 01 December 2006 - 04:36 PM.

[thudo]

That doesn't sound like our Necron AI.. Did you try another map? Try multiple games and consistently attempt to reproduce a patten.

NEVER assume one game is the defacto standard for the AI. It must always been shown through many attempts and not just on one map. Again.. what you experienced doesn't remotely sound like the Necron AI we so painstakingly scripted the buildorder.

[LarkinVB]

Just a couple of quick questions and points all for the Necrons.

I pit 1v1, all Kasyr Lutien, always 1 Necron AI vs. 1 random AI. I just delete my hq at the beginning to begin
spectating (which btw if there is an easier way I'd like to hear it). I watched 6 different games with the results being for the most part the same:

-Are the Necrons supposed to horde their power? In all of the games, especially towards the beginning they horded close to 2000 (anywhere from 1400-2000).

-Necrons spent most of the beginning of the game taking strat points. My only real problem with this is that it seemed to be their only focus. They didn't build a Necron Lord until they had captured a quarter of the map and they didn't even build a Summoning Core until they captured half the map.

It seems you didn't play the AI mod. The mod won't horde power and the summoning core as well as the necron lord are always build early.

There is a way to watch all AI battles. Unzip the attached autoexec.zip into your DC directory and add -dev to the shortcut properties. Player1 will now also be AI controlled.

Attached Files

•  autoexec.zip   282bytes   14 downloads

Edited by LarkinVB, 01 December 2006 - 04:51 PM.

[thudo]

1.Known but it generally works. Yes we are aware that "Skimmer Units" like Falcons like to jump around thus causing the Bonesingers to try and keep up. Perhaps this can be improved.
2. Try another game under the same conditions: did it happen again? What you experienced is NOT typical. It sounds rare. Its also based on the SM buildprogram you saw: maybe it was the Vehicle Rush strategy?
3. Not going to happen as the AI cannot check for something like a Tau Skyray Missile Barrage. Relic did not give us the code for this. Anyway.. it would be hard to avoid it anyway even for a human especially in the heat of micro'ing.

[Dralafi_XIII]

First of all, thanks for the timely response. Second, you may be right about the map thing since I haven't tried to duplicate it on multiple maps, which is what I'll try next. However, it should be noted that it has been fairly consistent on the map Kasyr Lutien, which btw I've uploaded a replay via rapidshare of my 7th attempt. I spectated the suicidal way and the results were once again pretty consistent (except Necron Lord, whom they built pretty early).

If the AI is not working properly, then I'm not sure what's wrong. I installed it and am using the created shortcut to run. I also slightly verified by clicking on Game Manager and seeing if the AI mod was highlighted, which it was.

Well, here's the replay.

The replay is 1v1 on Kasyr Lutien: 1 Necron AI vs. 1 Imperial Guard AI.
PLEASE note that I didn't check it for out of sync errors, I simply recorded then uploaded (if it is errored, im sorry about it and i'll check next time).
http://rapidshare.co...-59-13.rec.html

I'll c if I can reproduce results on other maps, and if I do, i'll upload those as well. However it could be a while as I'm going to a LAN for the next two days starting less than 2 hours from now. I'll c what I can do.

Until then, have a good one!

[LarkinVB]

... or use the link located at start->programs->THQ->Dawn of War Dark Crusade->Dawn of Skirmish AI Project

[Dralafi_XIII]

Before I leave, I want to let you know that it's what Larkin said. It's not just the Necrons, it's all of them!

The biggest giveaway was the fact that i just used the autoexec lua to put 4v4 on Oasis of Sharr; all the bad guys on one team (plus an Imperial Guard) and all the good guys on the other.

Now I assumed that your AI would be set up in such a way where most of the structures that could produce units were located around the HQ. But to my surprise, and very much in vanilla fashion, all Tier2 and so on unit structures were built around listening posts! Tau had a frickin kroot barracks being built right in the middle of the map!

Obviously it's a problem on my end, but why is it doing this?

[thudo]

Now I assumed that your AI would be set up in such a way where most of the structures that could produce units were located around the HQ. But to my surprise, and very much in vanilla fashion, all Tier2 and so on unit structures were built around listening posts! Tau had a frickin kroot barracks being built right in the middle of the map!

Obviously it's a problem on my end, but why is it doing this?

Where is this problem? This is working "as designed" - we designate some buildings to be @ the startpoint and others across the map - this is what pro players do. You don't always leave all assets back at yer startpoint incase yer overthrown. Our testers loved this idea as it also caused havoc not knowing when the frick'n AI's satielitte bases were.

[LarkinVB]

Watched your replay.

1. You ARE running the AI mod
2. There IS a problem with necrons not building early summoning core on larger maps. Larger maps are those with lots of points per race. This was due to your setup (6p map with just 2races). All scarabs were busy flagging points or building LP. This should be tweaked.
3. The necron lord was build early.

The AI was optimized to NOT build all production buildings around base as the tend to block the exits on small start locations (we can't check wether it is small or not). They should build around near LPs too. Building a barrack in the middle was perhaps a bit overoptimized.

Edited by LarkinVB, 01 December 2006 - 07:09 PM.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Now I assumed that your AI would be set up in such a way where most of the structures that could produce units were located around the HQ. But to my surprise, and very much in vanilla fashion, all Tier2 and so on unit structures were built around listening posts! Tau had a frickin kroot barracks being built right in the middle of the map!

No, this is intentional! The AI's build the first troop production building of one type always at the HQ, but further ones closer to the front. This reduces troops getting stuck (especially titans) and lets them build units closer to the front. Further the buildings often act as some kind of a meat shield for the front post positions, increasing its survivability.

Necrons hording 1500+ resources is definitely not normal. BUT, I don't know if maybe the fact that you placed them on a 6 player map with only 2 AI's in total is responsible for that. The fact they use their builders as cappers is only one of the many things that make Necrons very difficult to handle for the AI.
In general you should try to avoid such strange experiments with the AI, especially with Necrons.

Further if you've doubts if the AI is active, check the console for the messages "AI choose strategy 1, 2, 3 or 4".

[thudo]

Is there a dxp2.module file there in the root of your \<DarkCrusade> folder? In that file, do the last two lines say:

RequiredMod.1 = W40k
RequiredMod.2 = dxp2

or

RequiredMod.1 = W40k
RequiredMod.2 = dowai

For it to work with the original DC is should be the first 2 (one with the dxp2). Still.. you should not be having this prob. Going into GameManager and disabling the mod, closing DC completely, then relaunching should work.

[LarkinVB]

Watched the replay :

1. AI did choose 'shoota rush' strategy which is possibly broken.
2. You camp the middle. There is a broken path function by Relic which had to be replaced. The replacement is ok for straight path but not curved ones. AI was thinking it is safe to pass the middle and send squad after squad through your troops for some capturing. Blame Relic please.

This is a good example how Relic fucked up what the AI mod can't fix.

whats the diffrence between hard/harder/insane was there any change compared to relics hp/damage/eco buff?

Afaik there is no hp/damage buff with harder/insane with Relics AI. Just eco. Same here. Hard is standard eco, full scripts. Harder/insane just adds eco buff.

[Malkor]

I can provide you a way to make your Necrons more challenging, although I haven't tested this build order in 2.0 and have no idea if it will work the same.

That's if the lead team wants me to show off the alpha work of my Insane build orders thus far. I won't show off my ridiculous IG quite yet, though. I'll save the best for the next release.

Differences with Insane - They just get more resources on startup from my observations.

[arcanus]

Hey, it's me Joey again. Heres what I found...DXP2

[global]

UIName = $550000
Description = 2nd DoW Expansion Pack Project.
DllName = WXPMod
Playable = 1
ModFolder = DXP2
ModVersion = 1.0
TextureFE = Art/UI/Textures/Title_winter_assault.tga
TextureIcon =

;; //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
;; List of folders to map for this MOD
;; order is important - the first Archives registered will be scanned for files first
DataFolder.1 = %LOCALE%\Data
DataFolder.2 = Data
DataFolder.3 = Data_Shared_Textures\%TEXTURE-LEVEL%
DataFolder.4 = Data_Sound\%SOUND-LEVEL%
DataFolder.5 = Data_Music
DataFolder.6 = Data_Whm\%MODEL-LEVEL%

;; //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
;; List of archives to load for this MOD
;; order is important - the first Archives registered will be scanned for files first
ArchiveFile.1 = %LOCALE%\DXP2DataLoc
ArchiveFile.2 = %LOCALE%\DXP2DataKeys
ArchiveFile.3 = DXP2Data
ArchiveFile.4 = DXP2Data-SharedTextures-%TEXTURE-LEVEL%
ArchiveFile.5 = %LOCALE%\DXP2Data-Sound-Speech
ArchiveFile.6 = DXP2Data-Sound-%SOUND-LEVEL%
ArchiveFile.7 = DXP2Data-Music
ArchiveFile.8 = DXP2Data-Whm-%MODEL-LEVEL%

;; //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
;; List of MODs that this MOD requires to work
RequiredMod.1 = W40k
RequiredMod.2 = DXP2

When I first checked this folder there was no second required mod so I added DXP and saved it..

The second file I checked was the dowai module...
[global]

UIName = $550000
Description = 2nd DoW Expansion Pack Project.
DllName = WXPMod
Playable = 1
ModFolder = DXP2
ModVersion = 1.0
TextureFE = Art/UI/Textures/Title_winter_assault.tga
TextureIcon =

;; //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
;; List of folders to map for this MOD
;; order is important - the first Archives registered will be scanned for files first
DataFolder.1 = %LOCALE%\Data
DataFolder.2 = Data
DataFolder.3 = Data_Shared_Textures\%TEXTURE-LEVEL%
DataFolder.4 = Data_Sound\%SOUND-LEVEL%
DataFolder.5 = Data_Music
DataFolder.6 = Data_Whm\%MODEL-LEVEL%

;; //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
;; List of archives to load for this MOD
;; order is important - the first Archives registered will be scanned for files first
ArchiveFile.1 = %LOCALE%\DXP2DataLoc
ArchiveFile.2 = %LOCALE%\DXP2DataKeys
ArchiveFile.3 = DXP2Data
ArchiveFile.4 = DXP2Data-SharedTextures-%TEXTURE-LEVEL%
ArchiveFile.5 = %LOCALE%\DXP2Data-Sound-Speech
ArchiveFile.6 = DXP2Data-Sound-%SOUND-LEVEL%
ArchiveFile.7 = DXP2Data-Music
ArchiveFile.8 = DXP2Data-Whm-%MODEL-LEVEL%

;; //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
;; List of MODs that this MOD requires to work
RequiredMod.1 = W40k
RequiredMod.2 = DXP2

The weird thing is whenever I check my game manager for DC it's totally blank, nothing is listed...on either your mod exec. or the standard DC one. can't figure it out, my computer is fairly clean, just reformatted last month...I doubt there is a conflict. Well thanks for your time and your patience with me. I do appreciate it and the effort you and the rest of the crew put in to make such a great mod. Alas it is a shame I will not be playing it soon :-( Anyhow, I'll fiddle with it a bit more, perhaps but I am at loss as to what the problem is and I really don't want to trouble you any more, thanks again.

[thudo]

arcanus - sure yer running the original DC shortcut or our DoWAI one? If you uninstall our AI mod you get back your original DC, right? If not, what happens? Can you copy/paste your warning.log file out here from the latest log stored in the \logfiles folder?