22 replies to this topic

[thudo]

Up on the site for the testers..

- Fixed the heroes SCAR bug. (I hope that’s the only bug that occurs after a reload)
- Adjusted installer to allow optional heroes and camera installations.
- Closer zoom possible (Camera mod).
- Other slight fixes...

Please check multiplayer and save/load with HEROES and AI Donations enabled.

[troubadour]

So far, no big issue found, i had several games (1 vs 1 - Heroes mod disabled - AI set on Hard - AI donations disabled - AI highspeed - disabled) me as Tau Vs SM and IG. To fit my needs i had tune down the AI tech speed because I like to see more troops at the begining

I also set a FFA on kaysyr with all the races except necrons (no SCAR or sync errors), guess what Eldar and IG were the last fighting but things would have been different if i had no killed my Chaos neighbour

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I also set a FFA on kaysyr with all the races except necrons (no SCAR or sync errors),

Did you try to save and reload?

[troubadour]

Not yet, i plan to test save/load this evening when i will be back from the office

[Inquisitor]

>>Moved

AI Version: 2.3b3
Match: 1v1
Factions: Necrons vs Necron AI
Game Modes Used: Annihilate, Heroes
Map: Blood River
AI Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Necron

Comments: Easy Necron mirror match with bugs. AI arrived early with some reinforced NW and the NL, but they were not really effective. I tried to harass his base with my NL, but the AI had built a turret, so I had to retreat. Then came two Wraiths which is a bad choice vs. Necrons (suggest Wraiths to be only deplyed if infiltrated units has been encountered). I then attacked the AI base and the AI did a poor job on the defense (see the following).

Observations of interest: AI built three Summoning Cores (!) only one is needed and is probably a major reason for its poor performance (these were built at the exact same time). Besides that three (3) fully enforced scarabs were working the same Powergen, while three buildings were not worked on. The AI NL seemed to insist on dancing away from my NL, which is a bit strange. The AI NL generally milled about striking my NW once, retreated, go back to NW and strike once, retreated (repeat ad nauseum) - he was very ineffective! The AI NWs were very ineffective because of retreating: They were attacked and retreated out of the AI base and came back, broke and retreated out of the base again. The AI built two powergens (good) at the eastern relic, but also built two turrets (not good, as the relic had never been attacked and the main base was under attack).

Replay: Download.

I now know that the three SC is a known bug and that it only happens on Blood River. I had planned to do all races on Blood River, but I will test Orks on another map.

[kreative]

UPDATED FOR CLARITY.

SCAR -- *ALERT: [string "Heroes/Core/heroes_manager.scar"]:440: attempt to call field 'ID' (a nil value)
SCAR -- *ALERT: [string "Heroes/Core/heroes_manager.scar"]:440: attempt to call field 'ID' (a nil value)
SCAR -- *ALERT: [string "Heroes/Core/heroes_manager.scar"]:440: attempt to call field 'ID' (a nil value)
SCAR -- *ALERT: [string "Heroes/Core/heroes_manager.scar"]:440: attempt to call field 'ID' (a nil value)

Happened when a game was loaded.
I only had 4 military units upon loading of the game. One error for each unit as you can see.
All units reverted to Regular(1) after load. I don't recall how many units had received experience prior to loading. Will do some more tests.

Edited by kreative, 10 April 2007 - 07:55 PM.

[thudo]

Hmm.. so wait: you got those HEROES errors in the console when you built yer 4th unit? What side were you using? I've never seen that error in a long time. Arkhan fixed that problem awhile ago and since then its never happened. Very odd. I want to reproduce that.

[kreative]

Map/races shouldn't be needed since the functions used in Heroes are generic but here goes anyways.
Races: Orks vs Orks
Map: Titan's Fall
Game Modes Used: Annihilate, Heroes

Please note that it did NOT cause an AI error like previously.

Edited by kreative, 10 April 2007 - 08:02 PM.

[kreative]

On another note.
I fekkin' hate playing against Tau!
I'm very tempted to just remove them from the random list in Skirmish.

Edited by kreative, 10 April 2007 - 08:11 PM.

[thudo]

Hmmmm.. played that map twice the same way you did. Had no errors.

Edit: Yep.. Tau even in DC 1.2 are nasty buggers

[Inquisitor]

AI Version: 2.3b3
Match: 2v2 mp game (hamachi personal network, since GS is unstable atm)
Factions: Necrons & Space Marines Vs Chaos AI & Eldar AI
Game Modes Used: Annihilate, Heroes
Map: Murad Swamplands
AI Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Necrons & Space Marines

Comments: Very nice game that ran smoothly with Heroes enabled. Necrons had some initial challenging skirmishes with Chaos and Space Marines battled with Eldar. Both AI was fun to meet. Eventually we got them under control and won.

Observations of interest: CL was not inclined to engage 2 NW squads even though he had joined 4 cultists and had 4 CSM in support. He exhibited somewhat the same behavior as the NL in my previous 1v1 game: Charge, attack once and retreat (rinse and repeat). Sometimes the whole chaos force seemed to regret charging and retreated as soon as they "saw" my 2.5 squads NW with Disruption Field. Eldar Guardians was being pursued by ASM and turned Fleetfooted on and off repeatedly running over half the map. It seems as if as soon as they turned it on they distanced the ASM by 5 mm and then the AI thought that they were safe, but then the ASM gained on them again.

AI Version: 2.3b3
Match: 2v2 mp game (hamachi personal network, since GS is unstable atm)
Factions: Necrons & Space Marines Vs Orks AI & Tau AI
Game Modes Used: Annihilate, Heroes
Map: Mountain Trail
AI Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Orks AI & Tau AI

Comments: Very, very hard game that ran smoothly with Heroes enabled. Necrons did rather well vs Orks, but SM was pressed back in to main base by infiltrated Tau and some FW. Necron assisted SM with several FO, but SM camp was lost. Necron destroyed the Ork base, and assaulted the Tau base, but the attack was quickly annihilated. It then became a defensive grind to the last man. AI plays Tau incredible well!

Observations of interest: Orks defended with killakans and mega-armoured nobs, which was quite effective vs Necrons. Tau attacked with pathfinders and FW, which was deadly in the early game, later it deployed Crisis suits and Drone Harbinger. In the end it had a Greater Knarloc to stomp us with. Great game!

AI Version: 2.3b3
Match: 2v2 mp game (hamachi personal network, since GS is unstable atm)
Factions: Necrons & Space Marines Vs Tau AI & Orks AI
Game Modes Used: Annihilate, Heroes
Map: Mountain Trail
AI Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Necrons & Space Marines

Comments: Very hard and fun game that ran smoothly with Heroes enabled. Necrons had a hard time with Tau (Wraiths were essential), SM had a long hard grind vs. Orks. Mid-game Orks assisted with Tau with killakans and mega-armoured nobs, because SM was inactive. Necrons fought hard to hold the forward LP, but then SM attacked the Orks and we managed to turn the tide and win! Necrons never went T3 because of the constant need for reinforcements and attention needed at the front, so the Destroyers played a great part in turning back the green and blue tide. Great game!!

Observations of interest: Tau was really hard to stop. It just kept on resisting even though it only had 2-3 LPs most of the game! phew...

Replay: Download all three games (800k).

My friend wanted me to congratulate the Skirmish AI team for a job well done!

[kreative]

Hmmmm.. played that map twice the same way you did. Had no errors.

Just to clarify, this no gamebreaking error since it doesn't break the mod in any way.
I have yet to verify, but it seems once a game that has been saved is loaded all units have their experience reset since Heroes can't find the "ID" of each unit fielded.

[LarkinVB]

Eldar Guardians was being pursued by ASM and turned Fleetfooted on and off repeatedly running over half the map. It seems as if as soon as they turned it on they distanced the ASM by 5 mm and then the AI thought that they were safe, but then the ASM gained on them again.

I think there is still something sub optimal with FoF which was better some versions ago. They are still toggling on/off to much.

Note that Tau did not build barracks for a very long time (it was the the game you won) !!! I thought there was no build space but they eventually started to build with 800+ resources. Arkhan should have a look if he cares.

Edited by LarkinVB, 11 April 2007 - 06:06 AM.

[Inquisitor]

I think there is still something sub optimal with FoF which was better some versions ago. They are still toggling on/off to much.

Yes, the toggling of FoF could use a look and see if there is something easy that can be done to make it less "nervous". I think it relates to either the detection of enemies in the vicinity logic or the retreat logic if that helps. The Murad Swamplands game is rather short and it occurs maybe 5-10 min in the game if you have time to take a look.

Note that Tau did not build barracks for a very long time (it was the the game you won) !!! I thought there was no build space but they eventually started to build with 800+ resources. Arkhan should have a look if he cares.

Well, I didn't notice that when watching the replay, but now you mention it I recall that I didn't see many FW, if any at all! It was a hard battle and we probably would have lost if there had been any...

[ThetaOrion]

Whenever you guys report bugs that can't be duplicated with this 2.3 Beta, I myself was wondering at times whether Corsix's GameManager fixes could somehow be interferring, as I believe other mods installed them and still install them in addition to the old version of the AI Skirmish Mod installing it.

Anyway, one person has leftovers on his machine and another person doesn't, so one person reports bugs that the other person can't duplicate -- that type of thing. When one person gets errors that the other can't duplicate, it makes me wonder if 'old school' is somehow interferring with the 'new school' stuff.

Of course, as usual, I haven't studied any of the coding side of this, so I may be doing nothing more than tilting windmills by even mentioning.

Still, I was wondering today if there is going to have to be any special care taken when installing or updating mods where those old Corsix Mod Manager fixes were concerned, as I got the feeling today that many people are trying to run the old 1.1 DC Mods (like the Tyranid Mod) on the new 1.2 DC patch, and I don't think they have taken any steps to undo what Corsix has done for them now that they are running with the 1.2 DC Patch from Relic. Of course, maybe no steps need to be taken at all? I just don't know, and I assume that I'm not the only one.

For myself, I just thought that I would uninstall all 1.1 based mods and hope that none of the Corsix fixes remain and wait for all the new 1.2 stuff to come out before getting back into any of it, but maybe it isn't necessary. Maybe Corsix's fixes for the Game Manager don't interfere with or mess with anything in the new fixed Game Manager for all I and others seem to know?

Still, the not knowing makes many of us not even want to mess with the other 1.1 mods any more. Just uninstall them all and patiently wait for the 2.3 AI Mod and all of its offspring to arrive so that it is all hopefully good for the new 1.2 patch.

I hope I explained that correctly or so that Thud or somebody could understand it and maybe answer. Do we have to be worrying about the old Corsix Game Manager fixes in any of this, while playing the 1.1 mods on the 1.2 patch or while playing the 1.2 mods when some of the old 1.1 mods might still be around? Those are questions that I sure would like the answer to.

The old broken DC Game Manager lives on, if only in our fears and concerns about the future.

[thudo]

Note that Tau did not build barracks for a very long time (it was the the game you won) !!! I thought there was no build space but they eventually started to build with 800+ resources. Arkhan should have a look if he
Well, I didn't notice that when watching the replay, but now you mention it I recall that I didn't see many FW, if any at all! It was a hard battle and we probably would have lost if there had been any...

Hmmm thats usual. The only build program which has a delay building the Barracks is #3 (Special Kauyon Strategy) but its not by much. Sounds more like a glitch during that game then anything. I would try to reproduce it next time to see if it happens again.

As for Eldar's FoF.. I'm not sure how far Arkhan needs to re-examine this.. its essentially near its peak of optimization. Yer saying it starts happening 5-10mins into the game? Doesn't FoF get researched VERY early on. so it should be noticeable much closer to gamestart?

[LarkinVB]

As for Eldar's FoF.. I'm not sure how far Arkhan needs to re-examine this.. its essentially near its peak of optimization.

I think it was at its peak about a year ago. It didn't toggle that much and was more *reliable*. There were changes for the worse. My 2 cents.

[Inquisitor]

As for Eldar's FoF.. I'm not sure how far Arkhan needs to re-examine this.. its essentially near its peak of optimization. Yer saying it starts happening 5-10mins into the game? Doesn't FoF get researched VERY early on. so it should be noticeable much closer to gamestart?

I was only referring to the issue with Guardians being chased by the ASM, where the AI kept toggling it on and off while they ran half the map. Other than that the AI seems to do FoF quite good and it's probably not a bug worthy for fixing in this release. But if you want to investigate I watched the replay and it occurs at just after 11 min.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I've changed the FoF logic back to Larkins old code. I let it up to the testers to decide if it's better. Don't forget that it won't be as efficient as in older AI versions, since tactics are only computed every second AI cycle after 5 minutes to increase performance.

Further, since it looks like heroes looses all data at a reload I added a complete reset function which will reset all values if anything weird happens. This should at least avoid all SCAR errors. What can't be changed ist that units loose their ranks after a reload.

[Inquisitor]

I've changed the FoF logic back to Larkins old code. I let it up to the testers to decide if it's better. Don't forget that it won't be as efficient as in older AI versions, since tactics are only computed every second AI cycle after 5 minutes to increase performance.

I think the old code was quite good. I only pointed out the strange behavior to maybe help you improve it even further!

The AI NL generally milled about striking my NW once, retreated, go back to NW and strike once, retreated (repeat ad nauseum) - he was very ineffective!

Hmm, maybe the retreat health is too high. I increased it in 2.3 because someone reported they should retreat earlier. Hmm, I'll wait for further reports abort this issue...

This is a more of general issue, but I doubt that it is (only) related to the retreat health. Maybe it is some assessment of the opposing enemies that the AI does when it attacks? I mentioned that Chaos did something like it in the Murad Swamplands game above.

Some GM squads were reinforced, but none was upgraded with heavy weapons, though a sergeant was added to most squads.

I changed their upgrade behaviour a bit to make it more likely. Hope it works...

It works! I just had a game on Fallen City and IG was much more challenging and they built GL. Nice work!

AI built mines (1) that served no purpose.

Yeah, the mine problem... (Sigh) Sometimes the AI misplaces them completely. I think about removing them from T1.

I think you would do right to remove them as they seldom are placed in a spot that helps the AI.