32 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Rising]

The most frequent complaint I got from the mini-mod had to do with fighter complements, or lack thereof. Well, after a couple months of balance testing, I've worked out a compromise that should satisfy everyone: fighter complements will make their comeback in the upcoming release.

The initial problem I had with complements was twofold. For one, EaW lacks a robust carrier system, which means all complements must be spawned free from the ship at zero tactical population. And two, EaW lacks a way to dynamically swap out what units a mothership spawns, which makes it impossible to do independent upgrades on the daughterships. Both of these introduce some significant balance concerns.

For me to address these issues, I basically had to redesign the entire upgrade process. When I started this mod, my initial idea was to do nine upgrades for each unit model, which makes ten variants total. That's a lot of ships. I've decided instead to decrease the number of upgrades - thus increasing their potency - relative to class. In the end, I like how this works out better because you end up with fighters that go through a series of small modifications to a greater outcome and capitals that undergo massive overhauls that nearly leave them distinct from the originals. Here are the new variant totals by class (as a side note, the old Battleship class is now named "Destroyer," which I think is a little better descriptor):

• Utility - 10
• Fighter - 10
• Bomber - 10
• Transport - 10
• Freighter - 8
• Corvette - 8
• Frigate - 6
• Cruiser - 6
• Destroyer - 4
• Capital - 4
• Dreadnought - 2

The reason for this is that complement upgrades are now tied into the upgrades of the carrier. So the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer starts out with T.I.E. Starfighters, TIE Advanced x3s, and TIE Targeters, which are replaced with standard TIE Fighters, TIE Interceptors, and TIE Bombers on the Imperial II. Big thanks to the fans on the forums for originally brainstorming this solution.

So the idea is that you will never be able to reach the full upgrade potential of any given complement ship just by doing upgrades on a carrier, which makes fighter and bomber upgrades still useful on their own. The other component to this is that you must also pay for all of the complements in both credits and build time once. You can still potentially lose the daughterships indefinitely in tactical combat as long as the mothership survives, but this goes a long way towards stemming some of the exploits that come up with hit-and-run tactics.

Unit stats have been updated to include complement totals now, if anyone is curious as to who gets what. And for the first time in months, 18 new screenshots have been added, showing off just about all of the newer ships, plus the graphics improvements to a lot of the older ones, including moveable turret action. So it's definitely worth your time to browse around the website a bit and check things out.

[Pred the Penguin]

Woah... Awesome update.


Venator gets 35 squadrons? Is it because its a carrier or something?

[Phoenix Rising]

Well, that's canon if you just convert V-wings to TIE Fighters, but I speculate that most of it is hollow and filled with flight decks. I took a good chunk out of its hull rating to compensate, so it's actually worse than the Victory-class now, but I gave it back its speed (supposed to keep up with blockade runners, and my conversion yielded 78 MGLT). And apparently someone found a source for its tractor beams on Wookieepedia (very rare for a carrier not to have any), so it got those too. Actually, I probably should give it half TIE/lns and half TIE/ins now that I think about it...

[Imrix]

Woo! Carrier complements!

... Yeah, I'm more happy with how the lasers look now, honestly. Muuuuch better.

So, will anything be carrying TIE Avengers?

And have you considered leaving ship-overhauls as they are but adding more upgrades for anything with carrier capacity for the sole purpose of letting their starfighter complements remain in line with the top-level starfighter researches?

Also, I like the way the hangars are distributed. Rebels no longer nonsensically have no hangar bays, but Imperials retain their advantage since the Rebels only have a few ships with fighter complements, while every Imperial ship, it's dog and grandmother has fighters!

Edited by Imrix, 03 September 2007 - 09:56 AM.

[slornie]

Very nice update PR, look forward to seeing this in action

[Phoenix Rising]

And have you considered leaving ship-overhauls as they are but adding more upgrades for anything with carrier capacity for the sole purpose of letting their starfighter complements remain in line with the top-level starfighter researches?

I've definitely considered it and am explicitly not going to do that; I don't want to marginalize the upgrades for the independent squadrons.

However, hero transports do receive fully-upgraded complements that are not necessarily standard for that ship. For example, Cronal gets a wing of stealthed TIE Fighters instead of the normal loadout for an ISD. But since hero transports bypass upgrades, they cost twice as much and take twice as long to build and customize, so doing the upgrades is always the best choice, but they give you some early-game microing potential.

You can upgrade carrying capacity in some cases, such as the Dreadnaught-class, which starts with no hangar space and quickly converts some of its cargo holds into a docking bay.

[Imrix]

Fair enough. I just considered you could make the independant squadron upgrades a requirement of the carrier upgrades.

[Phoenix Rising]

Fair enough. I just considered you could make the independant squadron upgrades a requirement of the carrier upgrades.

Oh. Hmm, I think it would be too much of a prerequisite nightmare.

Speaking of upgrades, will Sate Pestage and Bail Organa have a higher discount as they are upgraded to a higher level???

Or is there any chance other heroes will get the discount bonus also as they upgrade, like for instance Luke, Leia, Mon Montha, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Darth Vader, Palpatine? Since they have great influence on their side.

No, the heroes themselves don't really upgrade.

[RICON]

So if you have an Executor-class out will all 144 of its T.I.E.s be in play at once or will you have to launch then using the launch squadron ability like you did in the origional

[Phoenix Rising]

Unless I have to change something for performance reasons, they just keep launching until there aren't any more. Of course, this still takes a long time, but you could potentially launch them all if you waited around long enough.

[Pred the Penguin]

That sounds crazy...
You wouldn't even need a fleet.

[Imrix]

Technically, yes. In practice... In the time it takes you to launch that many fighters, the enemy fleet will have arrived. If you can launch all 100+ squadrons, good for you. I'd lay good money you wouldn't get the chance though.

Now, if you want something where you don't need a fleet, try the Empire in z3r0x's mod, and grab as many Escort Carriers as you can. Works out to around ten squadrons per carrier. THAT'S when you don't need a fleet.

[Phoenix Rising]

That sounds crazy...
You wouldn't even need a fleet.

I think it will end up taking all 48 space population slots once I have all the weapons done.

Technically, yes. In practice... In the time it takes you to launch that many fighters, the enemy fleet will have arrived. If you can launch all 100+ squadrons, good for you. I'd lay good money you wouldn't get the chance though.

They die really fast (if you use them). I've gotten everything to launch from the Venator before and even still, any stray lasers fired in the general direction of a huge TIE swarm will result in a kill half of the time.

[Decay]

That sounds crazy...
You wouldn't even need a fleet.

I think it will end up taking all 48 space population slots once I have all the weapons done.

Technically, yes. In practice... In the time it takes you to launch that many fighters, the enemy fleet will have arrived. If you can launch all 100+ squadrons, good for you. I'd lay good money you wouldn't get the chance though.

They die really fast (if you use them). I've gotten everything to launch from the Venator before and even still, any stray lasers fired in the general direction of a huge TIE swarm will result in a kill half of the time.

Wow PR, this is EXACTLY what I wanted from your mod and you haven't let me (or anyone else it seems) down. Wonderful work.

[Pred the Penguin]

That sounds crazy...
You wouldn't even need a fleet.

I think it will end up taking all 48 space population slots once I have all the weapons done.

Technically, yes. In practice... In the time it takes you to launch that many fighters, the enemy fleet will have arrived. If you can launch all 100+ squadrons, good for you. I'd lay good money you wouldn't get the chance though.

They die really fast (if you use them). I've gotten everything to launch from the Venator before and even still, any stray lasers fired in the general direction of a huge TIE swarm will result in a kill half of the time.

Will Executors get better TIEs when upgraded?

[Ghostrider]

AWESOME AMOUNT OF WORK!

PR gets better and better.

I think the news now hits a proper Pavlovian response each time we log on! Each new section sets us dribbling in anticipation and itching to try out the new changes!

[Ghostrider]

[quote name='Phoenix Rising' date='Sep 3 2007, 07:24 AM' post='507863']

• Utility - 10

Quick note - you say there will be 9 upgrades for 'Utility' - but this section is currently blank on the website.

What exciting concept are you hiding from us now?

and finally...

Just checking - but does this now mean that imperials are limited ONLY to carrier complement fighters as TIEs don't have hyperdrives, while the rebels can have carrier complement PLUS additional fighter squadrons as long as they have hyperdrives?

Edited by Ghostrider, 05 September 2007 - 01:00 PM.

[Ghostrider]

Unless I have to change something for performance reasons, they just keep launching until there aren't any more. Of course, this still takes a long time, but you could potentially launch them all if you waited around long enough.

Why does this take a long time. The Executor class has multiple launch bays, and is capable of launching more than one squadron at a time. And those launch bays are not exactly small...

Or is it impossible to code in different launch rates?

And while we're at it, why do the Dreadnought classes only launch fighters, their launch bays and vessel storage compartments can hold a lot more than just fighters.

For example Thrawn launched cloned drop-ships from the Chaemera (I think they were similar to Gamma class assault shuttles), and there are just a few troops on board...

Talking of which, is it technically possible to capture or steal enemy ships mid-battle with troop drop-ships or would this be way too complex/unbalanced?