57 replies to this topic

[ArkhanTheBlack]

According to the games magazine "Games for Windows" there seems to be a new expansion in the works made by another company than Relic which will introduce the Dark Eldar race. Several other game magazine brought the news too, but referred to the same article from "Games for Windows". There's a thread in the Relic forums here discussing the topic. Korbah seems to have insider information and confirmed the news. Therefore it seems to be more than just a wild rumour.

Although I consider that a positive news since it further increases the life time of the game , I hope they don't make too much AI changes. A recoding of DC caliber would be a bit too much for me at the moment...

[thudo]

Yep.. waiting more concrete news as well. Its likely a third-party development so not likely to see major code changes I doubt. I'd love, however, to see more AI code updates especially the long awaited ThreatOnPath() but we can only dream eh? Dark Eldar would rock.

[ambershee]

From what I gather, Relic is the developer, and Dark Eldar are indeed the next included race (yay).

[thudo]

Indeed. So that gives the DE mod team time to get cracking to ensure they have a solid product out before that time. Its ALWAYS a good thing to have competiting products to showcase the differing artist directions -- its a win-win for us all.

[ambershee]

They'll have to be quick, I'm under the impression we'll see this expansion in time for christmas ^^

[thudo]

Hehhe.. more like Q1 '08 d00d... there isn't even an official announcement.

[ambershee]

It's in a magazine slated for public release in a couple of weeks, and it's about time for the advertising run up to christmas - and don't forget the promotional video that went with Dark Crusade

Also, it should be noted that the description of the Hellfire Canyon mission stated that only Tyranids weren't involved in the war - but would arrive in time. Suggestive hint, is it possibly?

Edited by ambershee, 20 September 2007 - 09:21 PM.

[thudo]

No its not the Nids...

[Zenoth]

No its not the Nids...

To see the Tyranids become a reality then they definitely need a new engine, or else it won't do them justice. We need very fluid and complex animations, and currently the DoW's engine is good at representing mechanical animations and humanoid races, but nothing else.

I could well see some sort of a re-make of the original DoW, including a mind-blowing 9 races, based on the Company of Heroes engine (8th and 9th races being Dark Eldar and Tyranids, and perhaps more). I would love to see a DoW using that engine, still remaining a top-view RTS and not a 3D adventure or FPS game. I can always dream in colors can I.

But if that news is true than that's cool, I could well use some of the hit-and-run strategies that the Dark Eldar are using. The Dark Eldar in Dawn of War would play the same strategic role than the Brotherhood of Nod does in Command & Conquer, in my opinion.

[thudo]

There are !!! 3 !!!, count em, 3 Nid mods..

- Kavey's Tyranids is 80% complete including fully balanced and AI coded completely. More unit/building rigging/animation work needs to occur to get it through.

- Styrer's Splinterfleet is 95% complete and needs final coding, tweaks, and AI to set it onward to the public, and finally..

- Lockee's Tyranids has 5-7 new units ingame already and UI going in.

Now you want Nids from Relic? bahahahah.. by that time, all Nid bases will be covered.

[LarkinVB]

Thudo, aren't you best friend with Relic ? Please ask them to fix their damned AI terrain analyzer pathing functions for SS ! PathingDistance is still crashing for exampe with random destination values out of bounds. I wanted to code some clever slag placement code for DCpro. Impossible with their broken stuff.

[ambershee]

No its not the Nids...

To see the Tyranids become a reality then they definitely need a new engine, or else it won't do them justice. We need very fluid and complex animations, and currently the DoW's engine is good at representing mechanical animations and humanoid races, but nothing else.

I could well see some sort of a re-make of the original DoW, including a mind-blowing 9 races, based on the Company of Heroes engine (8th and 9th races being Dark Eldar and Tyranids, and perhaps more). I would love to see a DoW using that engine, still remaining a top-view RTS and not a 3D adventure or FPS game. I can always dream in colors can I.

But if that news is true than that's cool, I could well use some of the hit-and-run strategies that the Dark Eldar are using. The Dark Eldar in Dawn of War would play the same strategic role than the Brotherhood of Nod does in Command & Conquer, in my opinion.

The 'Company of Heroes' engine is the same engine as the 'Dawn of War' engine. It just makes use of more complex graphical effects and a few more resource heavy logic techniques. The reason why they're not used in any of the DoW expansions is because Relic do not want to alienate the original user base by releasing an expansion with significantly higher system requirements than the original game.

As for the animation system - it's certainly not a limiting factor and could easily be augmented by means of patch for the standard games and in the game release. The engine uses what appears to be a fairly standard technique for animation. The 'not technically possible' excuse is banded around far too much, because it's very definitely not true at all, even without modification to the animation system. After all, we're essentially just talking about the Avatar or Bloodthirster with a different skeletal rig..

[Zenoth]

No its not the Nids...

To see the Tyranids become a reality then they definitely need a new engine, or else it won't do them justice. We need very fluid and complex animations, and currently the DoW's engine is good at representing mechanical animations and humanoid races, but nothing else.

I could well see some sort of a re-make of the original DoW, including a mind-blowing 9 races, based on the Company of Heroes engine (8th and 9th races being Dark Eldar and Tyranids, and perhaps more). I would love to see a DoW using that engine, still remaining a top-view RTS and not a 3D adventure or FPS game. I can always dream in colors can I.

But if that news is true than that's cool, I could well use some of the hit-and-run strategies that the Dark Eldar are using. The Dark Eldar in Dawn of War would play the same strategic role than the Brotherhood of Nod does in Command & Conquer, in my opinion.

The 'Company of Heroes' engine is the same engine as the 'Dawn of War' engine. It just makes use of more complex graphical effects and a few more resource heavy logic techniques. The reason why they're not used in any of the DoW expansions is because Relic do not want to alienate the original user base by releasing an expansion with significantly higher system requirements than the original game.

As for the animation system - it's certainly not a limiting factor and could easily be augmented by means of patch for the standard games and in the game release. The engine uses what appears to be a fairly standard technique for animation. The 'not technically possible' excuse is banded around far too much, because it's very definitely not true at all, even without modification to the animation system. After all, we're essentially just talking about the Avatar or Bloodthirster with a different skeletal rig..

Very good points.

But I'm pretty sure if Relic really wanted to, they would have done it already.

I mean, why Dark Eldars over Tyranids if doing Tyranids is just a matter of augmenting the complexity of the animations through a patch and adding new polygons around a different skeletal rig that the current engine can do ? Although I do like the Dark Eldars idea (I'm not part of the 'hating' community, I like that race) if I had to chose between them and Tyranids for the next expansion than I'd definitely go with Tyranids for a simple reason: Demand.

I was just under the assumption that Relic wants to do the Tyranids, but wants to do them properly. Perhaps the current DoW engine can "do it", yes, but would it be proper to the image we all have of those voracious creatures spilling saliva even with their mouths closed and leaving a trail of organic matter in their back as they walk and fly ? I always imagined the Tyranids, in terms of visual appearance and animation, as StarCraft's Zergs, but on steroids, bigger, faster and better.

And let's not forget something else: Numbers.

Tyranids are known for their "unspoken" numbers by the Imperium. Each time they establish a temporary "base" on a planet, they do it by the hundreds of millions if not billions until there's nothing left to eat in terms of organic matter and left the planet as a desolate dead rock in space and move on to the next one. So if Relic dares creating the Tyranids as per the Fluffy rules then would the DoW engine be able to sustain hordes upon hordes of them on-screen even at "low" settings ? My system isn't high-end but it isn't low by any means: X2 4400+, 2GB RAM, 8800GTS 640MB on XP 32-Bit, and at Medium settings I can barely get 35 FPS in a 3 Vs 3 games with two or three Ork tribes which at Tier 3 can reach huge numbers of troops, just like the Necrons with the Resurrection Orb. I always thought that the DoW engine tried to do things that were beyond its capabilities when it comes to render lots of things on-screen (models mostly, meaning a huge number of polygons to render at once). Maybe I'm wrong but by the mere look of DoW I'd say that Tyranids are best placed on another engine, maybe not CoH's, but something newer more capable.

Edited by Zenoth, 21 September 2007 - 06:25 PM.

[thudo]

Thudo, aren't you best friend with Relic ? Please ask them to fix their damned AI terrain analyzer pathing functions for SS ! PathingDistance is still crashing for exampe with random destination values out of bounds. I wanted to code some clever slag placement code for DCpro. Impossible with their broken stuff.

Yep.. Working on that currently to see if Relic is gonna allot a budget or focus to improved AI in the 3rd expansion.. Terrtain Analyser is a CRITICAL part of the inquiry. I need to also dust off that AI Request List for DC we did in Word.

My system isn't high-end but it isn't low by any means: X2 4400+, 2GB RAM, 8800GTS 640MB on XP 32-Bit, and at Medium settings I can barely get 35 FPS in a 3 Vs 3 games with two or three Ork tribes which at Tier 3 can reach huge numbers of troops, just like the Necrons with the Resurrection Orb

Ugh.. X2 4200+ ? Whats your Mobo and what PC rating is your RAM? Is it DDR2?

Video card is more than fine but you are MASSIVELY x 50 retarding your game enjoyment with that CPU and likely mobo and ram (although 2gb is fine, I still need your PC rating, ie. PC2-6400...). Recommend minimum PC2-8000 or up in 2gb DualChannel.. Bloody stupid cheap these days.

The MOST important parts of a comp. are CPU, Mobo, and Ram.. Period! You can get by with a semi-decent GPU and HDDs but you'll notice so much more with those first three. Yer processor.. esshh.. You need minimum Core2Duo E6420 then overclock the byatch to the stratosphere to get the max benefit. I do this for a living and as a hobby. Thats why you have those slowdowns, d00d. Recommend, getting thge 45nm CPUs next year and refresh the Mobo and RAM... should be deafly inexpensive next summer.

In our bizz.. you MUST refresh hardware max 3years or less. No exceptions. Otherwise, you can't expect the games to run well. Crysis and World In Conflict alone will demand massive specs for max details experience. heheh.. And its not expensive to achieve em if you know how to shop.

[mdcertainty]

So it´s propably not a fake. Soulstorm hmm now im interested

[LarkinVB]

My system isn't high-end but it isn't low by any means: X2 4400+, 2GB RAM, 8800GTS 640MB on XP 32-Bit, and at Medium settings I can barely get 35 FPS in a 3 Vs 3 games with two or three Ork tribes which at Tier 3 can reach huge numbers of troops, just like the Necrons with the Resurrection Orb

I get 35 average FPS (fraps benchmark) with 3 vs 3 (3 orks) at bloodshed alley (camera mod zoomed out max), high settings except shadows (low). (1024x768).

X2 4400+, 2GB dual channel DDR RAM PC3200, ATI X800XT.

Thudo is right, your card is limited by your CPU. Second core is not helping you with DC and the CPU is just 2200 MHz. Get yourself a X2 6000+ if you have socket AM2. It is cheap these days. I'm limited as I only have socket 939. Check that you are running your RAM at dual channel.

Cpuid is a good tool to check this out. http://www.cpuid.com/

Edited by LarkinVB, 22 September 2007 - 09:35 PM.

[Zenoth]

My system isn't high-end but it isn't low by any means: X2 4400+, 2GB RAM, 8800GTS 640MB on XP 32-Bit, and at Medium settings I can barely get 35 FPS in a 3 Vs 3 games with two or three Ork tribes which at Tier 3 can reach huge numbers of troops, just like the Necrons with the Resurrection Orb

I get 35 average FPS (fraps benchmark) with 3 vs 3 (3 orks) at bloodshed alley (camera mod zoomed out max), high settings except shadows (low). (1024x768).

X2 4400+, 2GB dual channel DDR RAM PC3200, ATI X800XT.

Thudo is right, your card is limited by your CPU. Second core is not helping you with DC and the CPU is just 2200 MHz. Get yourself a X2 6000+ if you have socket AM2. It is cheap these days. I'm limited as I only have socket 939. Check that you are running your RAM at dual channel.

Cpuid is a good tool to check this out. http://www.cpuid.com/

Oh don't worry I know about my system's limits. And I am on S939, sadly, so no X2 6000+ for me.

But my next upgrade will be quite major, with a Quad Penryn along with X38-based Mobo and DDR3. Either late December or early January 2008. It will cost me an arm, but I did saved that arm during the past year for it, I got the money, all I need are the parts to be released.

Edited by Zenoth, 23 September 2007 - 03:55 AM.

[thudo]

Going 45nm soon eh? Ya bas*rd! :( I'm stuck here with my LTB (Low Tech Bastard) 65mm C2D E6700. Skynet needs to recycle me I'm so beyond irrelevant.

But yep.. MAKE SURE you get a GOOD CPU, Mobo, and RAM - these three make ALL THE DIFF per hardware refresh.. nothing else matters so much and will last you as long between refreshes then those three. GPU and HDDs are simply sugar coating.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

A bit more information about soulstorm:

1.) Developer is Ironlore (Titan Quest)

2.) They will add flyers, which is in my opinion an absolutely great move since the missing of air units always was a gameplay flaw compared to other games. I hope our AI will be able to handle those units.

3.) They will add two new races, Dark Eldar and another one which was not announced yet.

Rumour:
According to the rumour, there 'might' be a cooperation with one of the race mod teams. Some say Tyranids, but my bet would be WitchHunters if there really exists such a coorperation. I still think Relic will try to reserve Tyranids as a joker race for Dawn of War 2, to be able to offer something 'new' which everybody wants.

[thudo]

Arkhan.. how did you come about this info? I was sworn to secrecy.. :/

OMG!! There can be zero doubt now:

http://flypicture.com/display/MzQ2MTE=

I'm in love with "pointy things" that impale up various orifices