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New DOW Expansion 'Soulstorm' in the works


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#21 ArkhanTheBlack

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 02:25 PM

Arkhan.. how did you come about this info?

Well, it's in the big and rapid growing "Third expansion for DOW" thread in the Relic forums...


I was sworn to secrecy.. :/

Ahhhhh, so you know more than we do?! And which other things aren't we supposed to know? :p

#22 thudo

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 02:31 PM

I could tell but I would die like a Dark Eldar victim if so.
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#23 ArkhanTheBlack

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 02:48 PM

I could tell but I would die like a Dark Eldar victim if so.

No problem! We would all keep your sacrifice for the sake of the world in eternal memory. :p :thumbsupsmiley: :xcahik_:

#24 Quitch

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 06:13 PM

The Tyranids are a very CC orientated race, and the DoW engine is not very CC friendly, and that's why we won't be seeing 'nids in this iteration of the engine.

#25 thudo

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 09:06 PM

CC orientated race, and the DoW engine is not very CC friendly

Ha! Tell that to the !!! 3 !!! Tyranid mods in development.. 2 of which are nearing completion and are exceptionally good and have excellent gameplay variety noone has seen yet. Its only limited paid developers that are the ones without the ideas sometimes to make lemons from lemonade. Har Har..
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#26 ArkhanTheBlack

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 11:13 PM

Looks like I was right and the second race are truly the Witch Hunters. Well, the strange silence around the WH mod was too suspicious. I knew there was something going on... :p

#27 thudo

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 01:04 AM

Looks like I was right and the second race are truly the Witch Hunters.

And this is substantiated? :) I cannot confirm nor deny anything other than DE. :grin: Flying Units you say? :cool: Yes.. this would open up TREMENDOUSLY COOL new ideas for the game.
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#28 Zenoth

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 01:10 AM

Looks like I was right and the second race are truly the Witch Hunters.

And this is substantiated? :dry: I cannot confirm nor deny anything other than DE. :cool: Flying Units you say? :) Yes.. this would open up TREMENDOUSLY COOL new ideas for the game.


Wait wait !

:grin:

There will be a second new race in Soulstorm ?!

#29 thudo

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 01:15 AM

http://warseer.com/f...-expansion.html

As I said.. the plot is thickening all around us so there is nothing more to be said. :grin:

Its looking MUCH better than I ever could imagine.
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#30 LarkinVB

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 07:58 AM

If they include a third party race mod I can't understand why they don't include the AI mod ?

Why are you all so excited btw ? Another unbalanced expansion for a dated engine. I won't spend more money on DoW1.

Larkin

Edited by LarkinVB, 24 September 2007 - 10:10 AM.


#31 Zenoth

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 09:27 AM

If they include a third party race mod I can't undetsand why they don't include the AI mod ?

Why are you all so excited btw ? Another unbalanced expansion for a dated engine. I won't spend more money on DoW1.

Larkin


Balance issues and dating engine aside that new expansion might be a new opportunity for you guys, the guru coders, to delve perhaps deeper into A.I coding, that is IF the devs suddenly decide to give you guys more control and power over what can be tweaked (a.k.a unlocking functions that they previously hard-coded and bugged).

On a personal point of view all I want is to play as Dark Eldars, my second favorite race on the fluff side of things and TT games (I played TT a couple of times, and the only figurines I posses for that are of Orks and Dark Eldars). I just want to see if the developers will manage to turn them into the Brotherhood of Nod of the DoW universe (I.E hit-and-run tactics, disinformation, sacrifices, torture, etc)

Edited by Zenoth, 24 September 2007 - 09:28 AM.


#32 thudo

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 01:24 PM

@Larkin - Tell me, what RTS ever made.. that is.. EVER, is balance once you go over 3 playable races? None and they never EVER WILL BE because of the simple fact you have, oh, 3+ billion players on the planet who will find one simply exploit that will put the paid devs into an uproar and try to patch the exploit.

Then.. when the exploit patch comes along ohhh look, someone else finds another exploit that the previous one was patched.

Figure it: we're humans.. we don't code perfection. We never will. Hell, look at Starcraft (circa 1998)... going on 10years this April'08 and its still NOT balanced and thats 3 factions!!!

Nothing will ever be truely balanced when humans design it. Its "acceptably flawed". Sorry.. Skynet always wins.
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#33 ambershee

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 03:37 PM

Chess is balanced :grin:

Looks like I was right and the second race are truly the Witch Hunters.

And this is substantiated? :dry: I cannot confirm nor deny anything other than DE. :grin: Flying Units you say? :) Yes.. this would open up TREMENDOUSLY COOL new ideas for the game.


I can confirm that Sisters of Battle will be in the next game, from info gathered at GD - I'd suspect that they are indeed a playable race, either as SoB themselves, or as Witch-Hunters.

DE units; Lord (Hero), Incubi (Bodyguard), Warriors (Troops), Mandrakes (Scouts), Wyches (Melee), Reavers (Jetbikes, suggesting possible bike variants for other races), Hellions (Jump Infantry), Raider (Transport), Talos (Dreadnought), Ravager (Tank). :cool:

Edited by ambershee, 24 September 2007 - 03:38 PM.


#34 thudo

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 03:44 PM

Source? :grin: Sounds about right.. Dark Eldar are pretty cut and dry.. They have the fastest vehicles in the universe but one of the weakest armour (to balance out speed). They are the epicenter of the ultimate "Hit and Run" tactics. Muhaha.

As for WitchHunters or Sisters of Battle.. we shall see :cool:
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#35 mdcertainty

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 08:12 PM

@ambershee
Chess is balanced, yeah but some say you even got a better win ratio when playing with white... still can´t call that imbalanced :grin:

A second race with Soulstorm... patience patience.... :D

Edited by mdcertainty, 24 September 2007 - 10:05 PM.

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#36 thudo

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 08:19 PM

A Relic dev spilled the beans and said to expect "Sisters of Battle" in the 3rd expansion. :D We simply don't know: remember when DC was coming. Only Necrons were confirmed.. Took a little longer for Tau to be discovered.
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#37 ambershee

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 08:00 AM

Source?


Myself, Games Day UK. They had Soulstorm and Squad Command on display :D

#38 ThetaOrion

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 10:04 PM

There are !!! 3 !!!, count em, 3 Nid mods..

- Kavey's Tyranids is 80% complete including fully balanced and AI coded completely. More unit/building rigging/animation work needs to occur to get it through.

- Styrer's Splinterfleet is 95% complete and needs final coding, tweaks, and AI to set it onward to the public, and finally..

- Lockee's Tyranids has 5-7 new units ingame already and UI going in.

Now you want Nids from Relic? bahahahah.. by that time, all Nid bases will be covered.


--

THREE??

I have only heard of Kaveman's Mod, and I thought that one was stalled out in inactivity for months or years.

--

With all the work that has to go into creating a non-human race for DoW or DC or any of it, I still can't figure out why these guys refuse to get together, combine their efforts into one Tyranid Mod for example, so that they can release something semi-complete sometime this year rather than releasing five or ten years from now or never releasing at all. Why doesn't Thud work on getting them together and making them aware of each other, since Thud seems to be the only one who knows that they even exist?

Of course, if the Stryer One has no AI to play against in skirmish mode, then I'm not all that much more interested in it than one with Winter Assault AI that is only 1/3rd the way done.

Oh yes, Thud always says that these things are closer than they really are. But, the truth is that Thud is made part of their team because they want his AI, so he gets to see the betas that might indeed be 80% or 95% or some such. But, the 99.9% of the rest of us don't even get to know that these things even exist -- never heard of Stryer or Lockee before now, let alone that they are supposedly working on Tyranids. And, for the Mods we do know about, such as the Kaveman mod, again, 99.9% of us only have access to an ancient version that's probably something on the order of 1/3rd complete.

So, again, we have to rely upon Thud's honesty and hope that it simply isn't all hype, and meanwhile yet another year goes by, and still nothing new has been released to the public where Tyranids are concerned.

It would be nice if these mod makers would release a bit more often, or even release, so that someone else in the world besides Thud gets to be made aware that some of these things exist.

--

Yes, it's nice for Thud that Thud is aware that these things exist. And, yes, it's very nice when Thud condescends to tell us about these things from time to time. But, there are huge gaps there as well, let alone the huge vacant gaps that many of us have even knowing that these things exist, let alone the huge insurmountable fact that 99.9% don't have the opportunity to play or see or even touch these things, followed up by the fact (if past history is any indication) that due to the hugeness of the task, we are still looking at years more of time before anything will be released to the public if anything Completed Tyranid is ever released to the public.

Therefore, I can't figure out why Thud doesn't get them together and have them pool their efforts once in awhile.

--

Another thing that confuses me about all of this -- yes, this guy here is radically confused -- is that there seem to be new mods in progress all the time on RelicNews. Instead of creating or starting a new mod that will never be finished, why don't some of these people join one of the existing mods like Alf's Tau Mod, or Kaveman's Mod, or Shin's Eldar Mod, and actually get one of these things finished this year rather than five years from now or never? I don't know these people: are they so exclusive or restrictive that they won't allow anyone new to join their team? Is that the problem? So, someone who wants to do something has to go out and start his own race mod?

There was Compiler's new Inquisition race and soon there will be a DC version of Steel Legion again, but those are humie mods and/or armor mods. The truly alien mods seem to all be bogged down at 80% in the versions that Thud gets to see, and they are all stuck at 30% to 50% or old Winter Assault versions for the versions that Joe Public gets to see and play with.

I guess at this point, I would like to see less of something new, and more in terms of completing what's already 80% and eternally holding at 80%.

--

Anyway, Crazy Theta. He actually wants to see some of these things get done before people quit or before the sun goes cold. I guess the thing to do is go away for another half a year, come back when Soulstorm is released, and see that everything is still at 80% complete in Thud's versions, and nothing new in the public versions.

I guess that's what I liked most about the AI Mod, there's usually a couple of releases per year -- yes, there's no new models and no new races and no new balance in the AI Mod, but there are periodic releases. I sometimes wonder if the race mods were to do periodic releases if it would keep the interest and focus high enough to accelerate the next release, like what's happened with Compiler's race and seems to be happening with Steel Legion as well. Semi-annual releases seems to bring in new followers, as well as new modders and testers who want to join the cause and help get the next release out. I think some of the other race mods could benefit from that example as well.

Oh well, what does Theta know? Nothing! Thud is the only one who gets to see most of these things, from rise to fall, and for the rest of us, these things are totally unknown.

#39 thudo

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 12:38 AM

Myself, Games Day UK. They had Soulstorm and Squad Command on display

Thats not really good enough proof. You'd have to be a little more specific what Relic's "Sisters of Battle" variant entails. What did you see that can claim this as being so?

Therefore, I can't figure out why Thud doesn't get them together and have them pool their efforts once in awhile.

One word: ego. Teams DO NOT want to share or merge because they have an ego and a passion to do it for themselves as a point of satisfaction. Thats the short answer.

Another thing that confuses me about all of this -- yes, this guy here is radically confused -- is that there seem to be new mods in progress all the time on RelicNews. Instead of creating or starting a new mod that will never be finished, why don't some of these people join one of the existing mods like Alf's Tau Mod, or Kaveman's Mod, or Shin's Eldar Mod, and actually get one of these things finished this year rather than five years from now or never? I don't know these people: are they so exclusive or restrictive that they won't allow anyone new to join their team? Is that the problem? So, someone who wants to do something has to go out and start his own race mod?

Trust me: I've been dealing with that since Day0. Again.. these projects are THEIR VIRTUAL BABIES/OFFSPRING. They want to stand proud to say they spawned this or that project. Also, teams DO NOT allow any member in -- they invite ONLY those who are committed to the project AND have the skills needed to turn out professional quality. Second best for many of the teams DOESN'T CUT IT. They don't want formage. They want to equal or BEST Relic's skills.

Oh and.. its much harder to mod an ENTIRE faction mod from the ground up due to the insane work load then it is to make the AI because a faction mod cannot be released in stages to the public as the team doesn't want to showcase half-ass work. With AI, thats totally different as we "evolve a technology", faction mods are building something new and different and require MANY different artistic talents.

There are ALOT of projects going on in the background.. things can only be hurried because some mod members of many teams are the cause of the slow progress due to RL and career or whatever. Sorry.. this modding biz is NOT exact like signing a contract for work. This is all peace-meal so expect the same most of the time with modding behaviour.
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#40 ThetaOrion

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 05:07 AM

Well, the 'behavior' is not limited to Dawn of War, certainly!

I saw the same kind of stuff over at the Supreme Commander GPG Mod forums. In fact, I don't think I have seen such an exclusionary bunch in my life. I think that there is something on the order of 5 to 10 different unit mods for SupCom, and maybe a few race mods as well, and none of them are willing to unite or work together and get things out in a timely fashion.

The only 'superior' aspect that I saw from any of the SupCom Mods was the fact that the various mod makers there seemed to be willing to release work-in-progress from time to time, which made it a bit easier to get excited about what they are doing, and even want to join in and help where you can.

And, yes, the AI modders there on GPG forums are completely different, too, in their approach. The AI modders seem to be willing to share and are always releasing constantly new updates and so forth. It makes it a lot easier to get excited about what they are doing, that's for sure! A new AI Mod for a game you are interested in simply gets you excited to try it all once more.

I can't help it. I just wish that some of the DoW and DC modders were as willing to share and work together as you have been, Thud. I think they would get done faster and get more support and input if they worked together, and pooled their efforts, and even released Work-in-Progress once in awhile. Nothing seems to bring in followers or stimulate excitement or get the work done faster quite like a new release. And, nothing seems to focus attention on the essentials or what needs to be done quite like a new release or an imminent release. Mod teams just seem to work better when they know what needs to be done to get it released or when there are bugs being found in what they have just released. It focuses them in like a laser on what's most important, rather than having them get lost online in discussion of possible features or some such.

I still believe that if Thousand Sons had released what they already had instead of just talking about it all the time, they would still be around, and there would be yet another release in the works right now. But, since there was never any release, soon, it was all talk and no progress, and then a couple of years later, it was simply dead. A release of what they had would have focussed them in on what was essential, and what was needed next, and what wasn't working or what was buggy. But, they never released. Instead, they got lost in talking about what might be or what might have been. Eventually, there was no focus on completion and no focus on ever releasing anything. If they have no further plans to ever release anything, eventually they lose their focus, and the mod simply dies. For it to succeed, the focus should be on completion and eventual release, and nothing seems to get them focussed on that more quickly than releasing what they already have, from time to time. Or, at least that's my observation, for what it's worth.



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