Jump to content


Photo

Some beginner questions


9 replies to this topic

#1 Fizanko

Fizanko
  • New Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:23 PM

Hello,

I am very new to this Dawn of Skirmish AI mod.

So far i was only playing on the unpatched Dawn of War 1.0 (unpatched because as an offline gamer only, i quickly noticed the stock AI was becoming way less aggressive and so a very lot less enjoyable to me when i patched all the way to 1.51) skirmish mode.

Recently i acquired Dark Crusade and in skirmishes the AI was really mediocre in comparison to DOW 1.0, the AI is not aggressive anymore, often stay around without even attacking and obviously does not make it up for any kind of entertaining big battle i used to have in DOW 1.0 , so i patched all the way to 1.2 and did not really noticed any improvement.

So after searching a bit, i found that Dawn of Skirmish AI mod 2.6 that sounded really awesome from the description and enthousiast feedback i read about it.
After installing it, i was pleasantly surprised to see how way way much better it was than with the stock Dark Crusade 1.2 AI.

My first time on it, using my old favorite SM vs Ork setup on my prefered 1on1 "Meeting of Minds" and it got me surprised to see that the Ork first hero actually used his personnal teleportation, something even the good DOW 1.0 AI was unable to do, and the orks were often retreating when a battle was not going their way, interesting feature that allowed them to resist longer.

As the Dawn of Skirmish AI was said much more difficult, to see how it was in comparison to DOW 1.0 , i just set it to Standard difficulty thinking it could be equivalent to Hard of previously, and as usual played without using the AI exploit that crippled it, and just setup for the usual mid-map battles that were always enjoyable in DOW 1.0

There i noticed that each Ork squads attacking me or attacked by me were never renforced, they were always the basic 4 orks squad, that my renforced full SM squads always teared apart due to me actually always being more numerous that the Ork (weird when usually it is number that makes the Ork strong).

When it went all the way with me beginning the last siege of the Orks base, i was surprised to see some smart usage of stealthy gobs that helping those newly produced 4 units Nobz coming and coming helped the Orks to avoid complete destruction early (and the various towers he had put in the base forced me to reconsider the weaponry i was using), forcing me to actually use those recon skulls ( i usually never used against the DOW 1.0 AI that was unable of using smartly the stealth ability) to prevent my big SM army to be crushed by missiles coming from nowhere.

So my questions are :
-how can i force the Orks to actually renforce its squads, or does it renforce only in higher difficulty ?, it is a bit too easy to tear those Orks squad apart if they only use the default 4 units , especially when you renforce your own, outnumbering the orks easily.
Looking into the readme, i see no mention of renforcement being removed, apparently it is only for broken squad.

-i noticed on the FAQ :

FAQ9: What are the resource boni and mali of the various difficulty levels?

Insane: 140%
Harder: 120%
Hard: 100%
Standard: 80%
Easy: 30%

That could explain the AI stalling rather quickly in his attack capability in this standard difficulty test.
How can i change this bonus/malus system to give the AI more ressources than the ones quoted in the FAQ , i guess that's on one of the numerous lua or ai files, but which ones ?

Anyways, many thanks for creating this mod, it is such an improvement on Dark Crusade 1.2 AI, with the AI able to do things i never thought possible that i can't understand Relic not actually contracting you.

Edited by Fizanko, 17 March 2009 - 06:27 PM.


#2 LarkinVB

LarkinVB

    title available

  • Members
  • 1,488 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:28 PM

??? Why don't you just play it on hard ?

#3 ArkhanTheBlack

ArkhanTheBlack

    title available

  • Members
  • 814 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:26 PM

@Fizanko

If the AI doesn't reinforces squads, it's usually saving ressources for teching. Therefore if you reduce the tech speed in the AI control panel, the AI should reinforce more and tech less. However, like Larkin already mentioned: Why don't you just play it on hard? The AI is crippled in lower difficulty settings.

#4 Fizanko

Fizanko
  • New Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:00 PM

Just tried a hard difficulty skirmish in the same map and always SM vs Orks, the difference are obvious and the AI more brutal in its assault.
While during half of the battle, i noticed the AI was not renforcing the numerous squads, in the second half it did, as i guess having the normal (100%) amount of ressources going to it allowed for renforcing the squads.

The AI is crippled in lower difficulty settings.

As i noticed your nickname on the many .lua .ai and .scar i browsed trying to find it and unfrotunately failed ;) , i guess you are the one knowing it : where can i edit for my own usage this distribution of the ressources handicap by difficulty level ?
standard being supposed to be the "normal" setting, i find it wrong to leave the AI with only 80% of the ressources, as this should be on easy level.

#5 Inquisitor

Inquisitor
  • Members
  • 121 posts
  • Location:Ordo Malleus

Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:42 PM

Nice post! ;)

You seem to be very focused on them not reinforcing even though you get plenty challenge. Why? Good players don't reinforce blindly. It's all a matter of priorities. Spending all your req on a few boys when you could instead get e.g. a killa kan going, is not a sound strategy. Watch a replay and see if the AI isn't saving for some upgrade or spent it on something better.
The Emperor knows, the Emperor is watching.
Want to zoom out further? Try this camera mod.

#6 Fizanko

Fizanko
  • New Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 11:15 PM

My focus in this thread on the renforcement was not really about difficulty, as i entirely agree with you that having the AI not renforcing its squad is freeing more ressources for it to build more different squads and tech up quicker to get an edge than the default DC AI just can't against the player.

But it was more about the feeling of epic huge AI charges i felt in DOW 1.0 when you had by example 2 Orks "simple" slugga squads running at you fully renforced with more than 25 orks, this feeling is not the same here when those 2 squads running at you will "only" feature 8 orks as the AI don't renforce their squads.

That's why i would like to increase a bit the ressource advantage by difficulty level, so i could find where to allow the AI to renforce their squad earlier without hurting their economy too much.
And so my problem is locating where to make my edits to achieve this goal, there are so many .lua .ai and .scar files really full of variables and other piece of code that even despite the very numerous comments, it is very overwhelming and difficult to find where those could be located.

Edited by Fizanko, 17 March 2009 - 11:15 PM.


#7 thudo

thudo

    Wacko AI Guy!

  • Division Leaders
  • 12,164 posts
  • Location:Lemonville North, Canada
  • Projects:DoW AI Scripting Project
  • Division:DoW
  • Job:Division Leader

Posted 18 March 2009 - 01:40 PM

Play a QuickStart game.. that is all. That gives the player and opponents 9999 starting resources. You have been warned.
Advanced Skirmish AI Team Lead for the coolest Warhammer40k PC RTS out there:

Dawn of War Advanced AI Headquarters

Latest DoW Advanced AI Download!

#8 Psychobabas

Psychobabas
  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 19 March 2009 - 12:50 AM

My focus in this thread on the renforcement was not really about difficulty, as i entirely agree with you that having the AI not renforcing its squad is freeing more ressources for it to build more different squads and tech up quicker to get an edge than the default DC AI just can't against the player.

But it was more about the feeling of epic huge AI charges i felt in DOW 1.0 when you had by example 2 Orks "simple" slugga squads running at you fully renforced with more than 25 orks, this feeling is not the same here when those 2 squads running at you will "only" feature 8 orks as the AI don't renforce their squads.

That's why i would like to increase a bit the ressource advantage by difficulty level, so i could find where to allow the AI to renforce their squad earlier without hurting their economy too much.
And so my problem is locating where to make my edits to achieve this goal, there are so many .lua .ai and .scar files really full of variables and other piece of code that even despite the very numerous comments, it is very overwhelming and difficult to find where those could be located.


I dont understand Fizanko why u dont just increase the difficulty to Hard, where the AI is playing as good as possible without cheating from extra resource. I think you be very surprised. This AI mod is notorious amongst RTS gamers. Far better than even Warcraft 3's AMAI. It can easily beat half of the online players no problem I reckon.

OK you want marines to fight against waves of sluggas... But how do you fare vs Killa Kans, Nobz, Mega Armored Nobz and Flash Gitz???!!! :good:

#9 ArkhanTheBlack

ArkhanTheBlack

    title available

  • Members
  • 814 posts

Posted 23 March 2009 - 10:05 AM

where can i edit for my own usage this distribution of the ressources handicap by difficulty level ?
standard being supposed to be the "normal" setting, i find it wrong to leave the AI with only 80% of the ressources, as this should be on easy level.

The only difference of the hard coded difficulty settings are the different resource gathering rates. The differences in the AI for the various difficulty levels are defined in the AI control panel. If I remember right, then the only difference between standard and hard IS the resource gathering rate at the moment. Therefore, if you just play on hard you get exactly what you want: 100% resource gathering rate! If you want special settings, just play around with the AI control panel a bit. Lower the tech speed a bit and you will get a lot more troops at the start.

#10 Fizanko

Fizanko
  • New Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 07:48 PM

Ah i understand better now, i thought the difference in difficulty was not only the ressource percentage, but the "responsivity" of the AI (out of the tweakable values from the Dawn of Skirmish AI panel of course) to your own moves.

So basically giving 100% of the ressource to the Easy AI would have it being the exact same as the Hard one ? (as long as the AI control panels are tweaked similarly)

Thanks for the precision.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users