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General Veers...Prepare your troops for a surface attack!


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#21 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 06:41 PM

I would tend to agree... the only exception that comes to mind is the modified Adjudicators that Infiltrators have as secondary weapons. Perhaps that's what he meant?

I just recall reading, I don't recall where, that Stormtrooper armor is designed to be immune to slugthrower and light/glancing blaster shots.

I believe the source was one of those "tales" books. However, the Infiltrator Adjudicator uses explosive slugs specifically designed to penetrate plastoid. At least that's the armament I gave them; I'm not sure what Ghost did.

I was wondering if you purposely limited raids for the Imperials (I have not played as the rebels yet)?

Yup, no more raiding with vehicles. That's a nerf that will come into effect with v1.2 as well.

AT-AT's were said to be able to reach 60 mph or kph, I think. Thats not really that slow, though ESB gives a different interpretation with the lumbering "imperial walkers".

The problem with EaW though is that the maps are too small for realistic speeds. I'll deal with it for the release.

#22 Kacen

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 08:00 PM

I think the issue is the walkers would probably take longer strides to go that fast...and acceleration needs to be taken into account. They look -very- unnatural.

Honestly if those issues cannot be fixed I honestly think uncanonical speeds would be an acceptable sacrifice.

#23 Tropical Bob

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 11:00 PM

AT-AT's were said to be able to reach 60 mph or kph, I think. Thats not really that slow, though ESB gives a different interpretation with the lumbering "imperial walkers".

Yes, Wookiepedia describes them as being able to achieve 60 KPH on flat, stable ground. I'm probably biased by what I saw in ESB, in which they moved no where near that quickly. Still, if you see the way they move in the game, it's hard to imagine something that large moving that fast. Maybe its just a matter of a faulty preconception on my part.

I imagine that since Hoth was a ball of ice, there would be a lot of problems with freezing joints and generally keeping things hot enough to work. Plus, there would be lots of snow and ice underfoot, which would prompt commanders to be a tad more careful about running around.

#24 Guest_StarWars_*

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 11:05 PM

On the other hand, the droidkekas seem a little too slow and cannot switch b/w lasers and ion cannons (like the description indicates, and like they can in other mods). But overall, you've made ground units worth investing in and made ground battles worth playing again!

Droidkekas don't have ion cannons. That description is form the vanilla FOC which made many large leaps of canon IMO.

Also to the handofthrawn, you put them in the xml folder in the mod folder of PR and replace the old files :p

#25 Kacen

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 11:15 PM

I believe the source was one of those "tales" books. However, the Infiltrator Adjudicator uses explosive slugs specifically designed to penetrate plastoid. At least that's the armament I gave them; I'm not sure what Ghost did.

It also protected the troopers from very harsh environments as well as projectiles and kinetic energy weapons.[1] The armor might be penetrated by a blaster bolt, but it reduced damage from the bolts significantly.

Although standard armor lacked the durability to make the wearer immune to blaster fire, it could deflect low-powered bolts. It also deflected stun beams, and served as protection against explosions and shrapnel. It was almost impossible to kill a stormtrooper with a slugthrower unless the bullet was abnormally large, specifically armor piercing, or if it hit the body glove or visor.

http://starwars.wiki...rmtrooper_armor

Edited by Kacen, 01 August 2009 - 11:21 PM.


#26 Kacen

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

Droidkekas don't have ion cannons. That description is form the vanilla FOC which made many large leaps of canon IMO.

Well the Droidekas in vanilla FOC are MKII variants made just for the game, not the same in the prequel trilogy.

#27 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 03:04 AM

Honestly if those issues cannot be fixed I honestly think uncanonical speeds would be an acceptable sacrifice.

That's my solution - none of the distances/speeds in space are wholly canonical, they are a scaled facsimile. Think how much it would suck if turbolasers actually went 100 km in-game.

I imagine that since Hoth was a ball of ice, there would be a lot of problems with freezing joints and generally keeping things hot enough to work. Plus, there would be lots of snow and ice underfoot, which would prompt commanders to be a tad more careful about running around.

Blizzard Force was specifically adapted to the cold on Anteevy; however, a whole group of the AT-ATs fell through the ice, so I'm sure that slowed everyone else down a bit.

60 kph isn't super fast, but the frustrating thing about the vehicle locomotors is that they don't seem to honor acceleration values like the space locomotors. I gave the AT-AT a really slow acceleration - like 30 full seconds to reach top speed - but it doesn't seem to care. Admittedly, I'm not as familiar with the land side of it (even with space, there are things I'm just beginning to understand), so I'm not sure why this is yet.

http://starwars.wiki...rmtrooper_armor

I'm not disagreeing with you; I'm just saying it's not an absolute rule.

#28 Kacen

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 05:34 AM

Yeah I'd prefer uncanonical speeds on the walkers (slower speeds) so they look normal when moving as opposed to them zipping around the battlefield. It looks beyond ridiculous and throws me off.

#29 Ghostrider

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 10:52 AM

I believe the source was one of those "tales" books. However, the Infiltrator Adjudicator uses explosive slugs specifically designed to penetrate plastoid. At least that's the armament I gave them; I'm not sure what Ghost did.

It also protected the troopers from very harsh environments as well as projectiles and kinetic energy weapons.[1] The armor might be penetrated by a blaster bolt, but it reduced damage from the bolts significantly.

Although standard armor lacked the durability to make the wearer immune to blaster fire, it could deflect low-powered bolts. It also deflected stun beams, and served as protection against explosions and shrapnel. It was almost impossible to kill a stormtrooper with a slugthrower unless the bullet was abnormally large, specifically armor piercing, or if it hit the body glove or visor.

http://starwars.wiki...rmtrooper_armor



OK. To clarify this point - I did't know any of the detail you guys have put in - but I have made heavy infantry armour - especially Stormtrooper Grade (DR-6) and above so that it signifincatly absorbs the majority of pistol shot energy, but gives enough damage to simulate lucky shots.
Slugthrowers in general are of lower damage, but the Adjudicator is almost double the power of a normal pistol - with excellent armour piercing capability.

For example damage vs Stormtrooper grade armour: holdout blasters do 1/8 max damage; blaster pistols: 1/6 damage; sporting pistols (an epxensive high velocity bolt) 1/4 damage compared to 70% damage for heavy blaster pistols (the kind smugglers/heroes use - which drop stormies with a single shot in the films)

My take - right or wrong - is that the slugthrowers in this game are normally illegal weapons and therefore high powered versions and do have some armour piercing capability. They are of lower damage (I see blasters doing more lethal burn damage to unarmoured opponents) but have good penetrating power. The cheap slugthrowers mentioned above are probably better represented by hold-out blasters in this patch.

Basically, I have tweaked weapon damage to give a self-consistent damage profile, so that the weapons held by rough characters/pirates/illegals/special forces do more damage than the cheap ones held by civillians. If my terminology is wrong, I apologise, but you should find that Stormtroopers do pretty well against poorly armed troops.
In this damage system Stormtrooper Grade armour performs significantly better than that worn by any other infantry unit.

So, to recap - Please take another look at land combat and please let me know how the Stormtrooper fares in battle. The text stuff is irrelevant.

You shoud notice one key point - Stormtroopers take less damage than any other infantry unit, and cause more mayhem than most. And that's the point of Stormtroopers!

Edited by Ghostrider, 03 August 2009 - 11:05 AM.


#30 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 12:51 AM

At least with slugthrowers you can always claim that they have special ammunition to make them better. A basic slugthrower, like the one Luke had broken in two, usually isn't even regulated. Something more specialized might only be able to be used legally by a military though.

#31 Dalmp

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:44 AM

Exceptionless structures:
Finally, we’ve just recently tracked down and eliminated a longstanding bug in Galactic Conquest that will allow us to reintroduce independent ground buildings, the fix for which will be bundled with this overhaul!


Wow, good job!

I spent hours looking for the source of that bug ^_^

Keep up the great work! We all appreciate it!
Amateurs study Tactics. Professionals study Logistics.
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#32 Tropical Bob

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:25 AM

Wow, good job!

I spent hours looking for the source of that bug ^_^

Keep up the great work! We all appreciate it!

From what I understand, it was kind of complicated beyond reason. Thanks Petroglyph...!

#33 Dalmp

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:06 AM

From what I understand, it was kind of complicated beyond reason. Thanks Petroglyph...!

That would certainly explain why I couldn't find it. ^_^
A seriously limiting bug, it's exciting to know it was finally licked!
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#34 DaC

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:53 AM

AT-AT's were said to be able to reach 60 mph or kph, I think. Thats not really that slow, though ESB gives a different interpretation with the lumbering "imperial walkers".


Yes, Wookiepedia describes them as being able to achieve 60 KPH on flat, stable ground. I'm probably biased by what I saw in ESB, in which they moved no where near that quickly. Still, if you see the way they move in the game, it's hard to imagine something that large moving that fast. Maybe its just a matter of a faulty preconception on my part.


Maybe there is a diference between maximal (60 kph) and combat (ESB) speed. My opinion is that AT-ATs could be very unstable in their maximal speed, not to mention shooting, and for walker of its size will be better suitable "ESB" speed.

Sorry for my bad english.

#35 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:54 AM

In case you're curious for your own purposes, the fix for that is actually a pretty easy one, just terribly obscure. It involves adding base levels 1-5 for all relevant factions in GroundBases.xml.

If you've never heard of such a thing, it's with good reason: these are the ground equivalent of the vanilla star bases and, until fairly late in EaW's development, were the only structure you could build on a planet (the pirate command center is somewhat of a relic of this). Of course, they got rid of ground bases and went with special structures.

For the past two years, I was looking for problems with the structures themselves - problems that weren't there. My error was in assuming that these systems were done independently and cleanly. It seems in actuality that they are still somewhat interconnected in the code, or at least enough so to cause an exception when involved in an auto-resolve battle (such as any time the AI attacks pirates).

So, yeah, that was a nasty bug and I'm glad it's history too. That's one less obstacle out of the way of a truly playable new faction. The last big issue is the tech and hero trees.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 07 August 2009 - 06:56 AM.


#36 Dalmp

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:57 AM

I was curious, thanks. So a legacy issue, basically. That explains a lot.
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#37 Invadious

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 12:53 PM

Maybe all tanks and walkers should get 0.5 of their canonical top speed, because I doubt the units ever reached that speed during combat. And in GameConstants the "retreat speed" is 2x so the tanks and walkers can reach their top speed while retreating.

#38 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 07:24 PM

I'm a tad bit curious why laser fire can shoot all the way across a map. :grin:
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#39 Kacen

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:11 PM

I'm a tad bit curious why laser fire can shoot all the way across a map. :grin:

Because their canonical range is that long and the maps are small as hell.

#40 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 03:13 PM

I'm a tad bit curious why laser fire can shoot all the way across a map. :p

Because their canonical range is that long and the maps are small as hell.


This has also been partially fixed in the Land Assault Patch, where laser range has been a bit more limited. OK - it's not so accurate, but I think it's more balanced for gameplay.



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