32 replies to this topic

[Allathar]

Well, at least you don't take the global warming for granted. Looks like we got ourselves another climate-sceptic, welcome!

[Mathijs]

God, Global Warming... what do you believe, Allathar? Personally, I think the world is indeed warming, but that mankind doesn't have that much to do with it, if anything at all. It's just the natural course of things.

Then again I am not educated whatsoever in this field so I could just be a damn fool.

[Allathar]

The same, actually. I don't know whether the Earth is warming or not, but I do suspect that mankinds actions have fuck all to do with it. I mean, compared to fluctuations in solar activities, tiny changes in the rotation in the Earth around the sun, the natural cycles of ice ages etc. CO2 is not a very big deal. Manmade global warming is just another hype that wastes billions and billions of dollars. Good thing to know that the climategate is getting known though, and more and more people realize that the scientists have manipulated the data suggesting CO2 is the cause of global warming.

[Kwen]

I'm at a standstill on that opinon. Whist I think things are progressing faster then they would otherwise, humans are not doing a whole lot to change the course of earth's future. But, on the contrary. The amount of un-natural things we are pouring into our environment is substantial, and the quickly escalating effects on the polar ice caps strongly suggest that we are highly to blame.

[Nertea]

Good to see that we have yet another person with no education in the field joining the ranks of the doubters.

[Puppeteer]

CO2 is not a very big deal

Actually, data does suggest that CO2 contributes to global warming, the contentious issue is whether mankind causes much impact. The problem is that the more CO2, the warmer the atmosphere; the warmer the atmosphere, the warmer the sea; the warmer the sea, the less gas dissolved within it. Thus CO2 is released from the sea, contributing more to global warming. And so on and so forth. That's only CO2.

[Allathar]

Good to see that we have yet another person with no education in the field joining the ranks of the doubters.

Actually, make that little education. I've had two years of geography in high school, and learnt the basics of meterology and climate. I'd also like to add that one vulcano eruption is substantial more CO2 than an average city in a year. Also, while CO2 might very well lead to global warming, there's no proof to how much it adds to it.

[Kwen]

Good to see that we have yet another person with no education in the field joining the ranks of the doubters.

You are not talking about me are you?

[Nertea]

Actually, make that little education. I've had two years of geography in high school, and learnt the basics of meterology and climate. I'd also like to add that one vulcano eruption is substantial more CO2 than an average city in a year. Also, while CO2 might very well lead to global warming, there's no proof to how much it adds to it.

*shrugs* I respond well to people who give me sources, particularly in peer-reviewed journals. I have however, spent a good chunk of the last 4 years earning that little footnote on my diploma that says "Specialization in Climatology", so I've made my decision and would consider myself rather well qualified to make judgements on the subject.

[Mathijs]

Then you'll have to explain it to me sometime, if you have the time. I've always wondered what to believe.

[Allathar]

Yep, it's true, humanity is ruining the planet....


Or are they?



Just google for 'global warming graph' and notice the pattern that all the graphs showing 'clear evidence' of global warming only go back for about hundred years. Why is that, do you think?



There you go, Mathijs. Notice that at the end of the graph the temperature rises a bit? That's global warming. ZOMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE HUMANITY IS RUINING THE PLANET!!!1! COPENHAGEN COPENHAGEN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS CO2!

I've got an even better one:



Seriously, even though my education isn't proper according to mr. Nertea, with those two years of geography in high school I learned that the current fluctuations in temperature are nothing special, looking back at the past several million years. Even the CO2 levels.

[Lauri]

I think that reducing the CO2 is a good thing anyways. If the world get's greener, that's a good thing.

I celebrate... Christmas holiday is ON!

[Allathar]

Reducing CO2 a good thing? Perhaps, but imho that's a waste of money which should rather be spend on the results of 'global warming'. No need to spend billions on dollars fighting climate change. That's like spending money on trying to stop continental drift.

Besides, there isn't even a clear link yet between CO2 levels and global warming:

[Lauri]

It's a good thing because I don't want to live in a place where you only see clouds of smoke because there's so much CO2 in the air

duh

[Allathar]

Well, yes, of course that'd be neat. Just don't expect that to suddenly stop global warming

Also, what do you believe, Mathijs? If I managed to convert another lost soul to the climate-scepticism my job is finished for today.

[Lauri]

I never mentioned global warming, so...

I just want to live in a greener world, with fresh air I'm not expecting anything to stop global warming suddenly, or in fact at all in my lifetime

[Kwen]

Here's how to solve the problem of global warming.

Option 1: Drop massive chunks of ice into the ocean. about 500 square miles. this will cool off the water and fix the earth.

Option 2: Fire a nuke into space, aiming at the sun. Detonate it just outside of the earth's atmosphere. Hope to god the blast pushes the planet away from the sun. Boom. Colder.

(those were meant to be humorous)

[mike_]

They were, Kwen

That's very interesting, Allathar. And it's good to see you around more now-a-days.

I'd like to celebrate that my Christmas vacation began yesterday, and my WoW subscription trial goes on until Christmas itself. Woohoo!

Edited by mike_, 18 December 2009 - 02:37 PM.

[Nertea]

Firing all the world's nukes off like that would also rather solve a lot of stress over nuclear non-proliferation, no?

Anyone who is actually taking Allathar's links seriously should take a look at the source sites... 'cause I did, and there's a lot of "I started with the IUPACC data and then I..."

And of course...

My name is Paul MacRae. I’m an ex-journalist who has worked as an editor, editorial writer and columnist for several newspapers over the past 40 years, including The Toronto Star, Globe and Mail, Bangkok Post, and Victoria Times Colonist. In 2002 I switched to academia and now teach English and professional writing at the University of Victoria and University Canada West, a new private university in Victoria, BC.

His site therefore has about the same authority of this subject as Bush has on weapons of mass destruction.

But hey, let's focus on the positives! I actually think Allathar is right in a vague fashion! Copenhagen is a waste of money not because the science is wrong, but because it's a giant waste of money considering what will come out of it (nothing). There's also far too much focus on CO2 than other things that are even more evidently problems. As far as greenhouse gasses go, CO2 is not very effective in the grand scheme of things - it's in the middle of the spectrum as such a gas. CH4 (methane) is far more effective at trapping (by around a factor of 12), but people don't care about that? Odd. A significant source of CH4 is cows, which is an argument I get thrown at me frequently - global warming isn't caused by humans because cows are better at carbon generation! Of course, the high proliferation of cows *is* caused by humans. That likely pales too in comparison to land use change. It's amazing how easily you change the radiative properties of a surface - pave it, log it, grow a different crop there, etc. I hate to use the carbon sink buzzword, but it should be mentioned... the issue isn't so much that we are adding such a large amount of carbon to the air as that we're adding it while severely reducing the ecosystem's ability to cope with it, and changing the radiative balance of surfaces so that there's more heat trapping and generation. And particulates. Whatever happened to particulate matter? Sure, it's not as much of a problem in the developed world at the moment, but the so-called developing countries tend to sprew it out in alarming amounts.

That was kinda rambling. Really though, we'll know for sure when the PDO swings back to the other half of its 20 year cycle, and if you absolutely want to continue this debate, we should take it elsewhere.

Edited by Nertea, 18 December 2009 - 04:26 PM.

[Allathar]

Well, I don't really care about the 'scientific source' of the graphs. The graphs speak for themselves - the current rise in temperature is nothing to be worried about compared to the millions of years before. Not to mention, those scientific sources you're so proud of, happened to be manipulated data.