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#21 evilbobthebob

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 10:54 PM

Wow. That's some incredible work you've done there, PR. Incidentally, I have some input on the map corruptions. Each object has an index for faction owner which is completely static. The order displayed in the map editor is related to Factions.xml and factionfiles.xml ordering. Thus, if you add/remove factions, the order is changed while the static owner index remains the same. So the object changes owner. You just have to be very careful with changes to faction ordering.

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#22 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 11:03 PM

Just like Muneyoshi I ditched small scale modding and 1.1 as a whole because of lag issues and logic behind how AI is [not] working, game very quickly turn into boredom fest (when you play as an Empire) or frustration fest as a Republic (Empire AI spamming 20 SSDs fleets all around the map).

20 SSD fleets were from cheating. The only SSDs you see now will be paid in full! With standard starting cash, they should be sufficiently rare (I haven't tested it with millions).

I don't know if you intend to but, I would personally love to read a little more detailed report on that eleventh month process. It sounds very interesting. I'm just really curious as to how the AI is really affected by these changes.

That's about all I could stand to recall in the post. The delay was almost entirely from technical issues such as the file structure not being set up properly, or zombie bits of the EaW AI popping up when they shouldn't, or a dozen or so dormant exceptions that working AI activated. There were a few problems with token misuse (OpenStructureSlots counts space, but MaxStructureSlots doesn't?) or syntax error in the infrastructure equations, but coding and balancing them only took a month or two. It wasn't the most news-friendly project in that it didn't end with a nicely-packaged feature... it was more of a "make the AI work" mindset.

To be honest, we don't fully know how the AI was affected. It needs much more testing than we're capable of doing. That'll be up to you guys.

About the AI, will a planet with a Shipyard cap of 5 say...Kuat, no matter what the faction is that's controlling it, will they build many defenses and make it an epic planet to take based on its bonuses? I'm really interested to know what kind of things might change and improve. That's one thing I always felt cheated on in EAW; even in PR 1.1. I really craved the AI to send in a fleet spanning starfighters to capitals and even a dreadnaught whose purpose seemed clear that I had an invasion force on my hands. To deal with an actual enemy fleet that makes sense; I have craved this in EAW. I hope this groundwork into this AI will bring about unpredictable actions and suprising battles that make sense and bring challenge.

I didn't get to the planet value logic because of planned changes in v1.3, so it doesn't take advantages into account when deciding what to attack or defend. It would look at Kuat and evaluate base slots, income, trade routes, and such. Generally, it prefers to bridge unconnected territories for the sake of logistics, which is perfectly sensible. The fleets I've seen have also been pretty well-balanced (unless a planet is isolated). But to answer your question of whether it will defend Kuat, yes - based on those criteria. Whether it's bordering enemy territory or is part of the victory conditions also makes a big difference in defenses.

Incidentally, I have some input on the map corruptions. Each object has an index for faction owner which is completely static. The order displayed in the map editor is related to Factions.xml and factionfiles.xml ordering. Thus, if you add/remove factions, the order is changed while the static owner index remains the same. So the object changes owner. You just have to be very careful with changes to faction ordering.

Learned the hard way by dropping the Sarlacc faction. Oops!

It also seems to run into problems (the asteroids, for example) when it can no longer find placed objects in the XMLs. The missing object is deleted, but the next object gets its faction.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 16 February 2011 - 11:09 PM.


#23 coinich

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 02:25 AM

I always played PR for the campaign and its depth; this is absolutely great!

#24 smashedsaturn

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 03:01 AM

horray, hopefully this means the release of 1.2 is not far away, keep up the good work,you guys do all this for free, if theres any documentation you need help with, im sure many others and myself would be willing to help

#25 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 03:06 AM

hopefully this means the release of 1.2 is not far away

It's the beginning of the end.

#26 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 09:48 PM

I can't believe you guys do this for free! You truly are saints among men, and I thank you sincerely for your effort and the detail you have put into your mod. You have taken what was a mediocre game at best and turned it into my favourite game, possibly of all time. If I had the money to spare, it would go to you, I mean that.

Now I can't wait for version 1.2... Tee hee!

Oh also, I absolutely love the laser effects of v1.1, most excellent! I hope you keep them for v1.2!

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 17 February 2011 - 10:02 PM.

I have no idea what you're talking aboot, Eh?

#27 Corsair114

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 10:24 AM

Most impressive.

#28 Zeta1127

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:57 PM

So, the HVs-2 Hypervelocity Gun and the m-68 Planetary Magnapulse Cannon are gone? The w-165 Planetary Turbolaser seems like a great idea, but what is the reasoning behind losing the others? Can they be researched, because they don't seem to be very common, might be a good way to keep them around.
"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
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#29 sargeantsandwich

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 09:10 PM

So, the HVs-2 Hypervelocity Gun and the m-68 Planetary Magnapulse Cannon are gone? The w-165 Planetary Turbolaser seems like a great idea, but what is the reasoning behind losing the others? Can they be researched, because they don't seem to be very common, might be a good way to keep them around.

Are Planetary Turbolasers canon? I don't remember seeing them anywhere before. I do remember seeing Hypervelocity Guns (In the beginning of the Black Fleet Crisis).

#30 Tropical Bob

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 09:44 PM

Are Planetary Turbolasers canon? I don't remember seeing them anywhere before. I do remember seeing Hypervelocity Guns (In the beginning of the Black Fleet Crisis).

As far as I even remember, the Hypervelocity Gun was only mentioned via novel in the first part of the Black Fleet Crisis. And that was only a mock planetary defense scenario.

Not sure if I've seen a reference to a Planetary Turbolaser. A Planetary Ion Cannon exists, as seen in Empire Strikes Back, and we've seen many examples of Planetary Shields, so it's entirely plausible, if not already canonically available, for a Turbolaser version to exist. It would also likely be more common to find than a Hypervelocity Gun, in my opinion.

#31 Zeta1127

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 10:13 PM

All of them are canon. The Planetary Ion Cannon we all know about from The Empire Strikes Back is the Kuat Drive Yards v-150 Planet Defender anti-orbital ion cannon. In fact, most of the planetary defenses are made by KDY unless otherwise mentioned.

The m-68 Planetary Magnapulse Cannon was KDY's first attempt at creating a surface-to-space weapon, but the w-165 Planetary Turbolaser, which looks very similar to the m-68, ended up filling that role, while the m-68 became the surface-to-surface weapon we are familiar with.

The Taim & Bak HVs-2 Hypervelocity Gun is the only known model of hypervelocity gun, the one from Before the Storm is kind of iffy (because we don't know if it was just a prop or not), and was developed by the Imperial Department of Military Research, the department that experimental military hardware like Dark Troopers, the Death Star, and other superweapons falls under.

The HVs-2 and m-68 only appear in EaW and FoC. The w-165, Planet Defender, and planetary shields are the most common planetary defenses, but the w-165 only really appears in reference to the back story for the m-68.

Edited by Zeta1127, 18 February 2011 - 11:01 PM.

"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie

#32 sargeantsandwich

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:13 AM

The m-68 Planetary Magnapulse Cannon was KDY's first attempt at creating a surface-to-space weapon, but the w-165 Planetary Turbolaser, which looks very similar to the m-68, ended up filling that role, while the m-68 became the surface-to-surface weapon we are familiar with.

I must have missed a book somewhere. I thought i had read most of them.
Is the w-165 Planetary Turbolaser more powerful than a hypervelocity gun ingame, and will it have the Ion cannon's disabling abilities?

#33 Zeta1127

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:14 AM

To my knowledge, the w-165 Planetary Turbolaser is basically a large turbolaser battery that can destroy an ISD in a single volley. I also know that they don't really appear in novels just technical books, which I don't even read, because what they have to offer is usually put into the pertinent Wookieepedia article fairly well. I just take what Wookieepedia says with a grain of salt, because I don't like the culture there of cataloging every appearance without caring what the appearance did or did not do, and you can't do anything unless it is in a canon source or article cleanup. You didn't miss a book, Before the Storm is the first book of the Black Fleet Crisis.

Edited by Zeta1127, 19 February 2011 - 01:31 AM.

"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie

#34 P.O._210877

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:23 AM

To my knowledge, the w-165 Planetary Turbolaser is basically a large turbolaser battery that can destroy an ISD in a single volley. I also know that they don't really appear in novels just technical books, which I don't even read, because what they have to offer is usually put into the pertinent Wookieepedia article fairly well. I just take what Wookieepedia says with a grain of salt, because I don't like the culture there of cataloging every appearance without caring what the appearance did or did not do, and you can't do anything unless it is in a canon source or article cleanup. You didn't miss a book, Before the Storm is the first book of the Black Fleet Crisis.



True, but the w-165 is also referenced in The Complete Encyclopedia : Designed by Kuat Drive Yards, this ground-based turbolaser emplacement was used for planetary defense. It had roughly four times the power of the v-150 Planetary Defender ion cannon, and was capable of destroying an Imperial-class Star Destroyer in orbit.

Since the encyclopedia is considered canon the w-165 also is. I do think like you about Wookipedia tough. Not enough common sense and to literal.

Edited by P.O._210877, 19 February 2011 - 07:29 AM.

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- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
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#35 sargeantsandwich

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 08:28 AM

Imagine where we would be without wookiee though... I use it quite a bit at least, even if some of the information is false or just dumb.
So PR, will the Planetary Turbolaser be able to destroy a star destroyer in a single shot?

#36 Mercykiller_AUS

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 10:53 AM

So PR, will the Planetary Turbolaser be able to destroy a star destroyer in a single shot?


Being able to destroy an ISD in orbit is very different from being able to do it in one shot. That's the sort of thing that would spark a massive improvement in shielding technology.

#37 evilbobthebob

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:28 PM

Question: What will the differentiation be between difficulty levels, if any?

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#38 Tropical Bob

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:58 PM

I doubt it would be able to destroy an ISD in a single shot. That's superlaser kind of power. Zeta mentioned being able to destroy one in one volley. If that's canon, it may need to be balanced for gameplay a bit, be it by making it have a long recharge, expensive, or reducing the power to taking two or more volleys to take down an ISD.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 20 February 2011 - 06:40 AM.


#39 Zeta1127

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:47 PM

Wookieepedia says it can destroy an ISD in a single volley, and I am inclined to believe it, they aren't that bad. Wookieepedia also says that some of the richer worlds fielded w-165 Planetary Turbolasers, v-150 Planet Defender ion cannons, and planetary shields in a network to defend a planet, so Wookieepedia isn't kidding around, which is another reason why I believe it. All of these planetary defenses cost a lot of credits, so it makes perfect sense for the w-165 to be able to destroy an ISD in a single volley.

I just said I don't like the culture of Wookieepedia, I didn't say I hate all of contributor's guts, if I did I would hate myself because I contribute there too.

I second that question, evilbobthebob.

Minor Note: Tropical Bob, you missed a number in my name, it is a lot easier to just use Zeta.

Edited by Zeta1127, 19 February 2011 - 08:21 PM.

"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie

#40 sargeantsandwich

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:59 PM


So PR, will the Planetary Turbolaser be able to destroy a star destroyer in a single shot?


Being able to destroy an ISD in orbit is very different from being able to do it in one shot. That's the sort of thing that would spark a massive improvement in shielding technology.



I doubt it would be able to destroy an ISD in a single shot. That's superlaser kind of power. Zeta117 mentioned being able to destroy one in one volley. If that's canon, it may need to be balanced for gameplay a bit, be it by making it have a long recharge, expensive, or reducing the power to taking two or more volleys to take down an ISD.


I just meant to ask how powerful it would be ingame.



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