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#41 Stormhawk

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:26 AM

2) Not that I expect this to change... but are hull and shield strengths canon? It strikes me how quickly ships go down, in comparison to say RoTJ, were the final battle (with relatively few Rebel starships) went on forever! I have this strange temptation to double all the figures in the INI files... although that would probably take foooorever.


I don't find this much of a problem. If the pace of battle slows down too much, it takes away from some of the tactical pressure, the quick decision making that makes strategy games fun. Battles between individual capital ships tend to resolve themselves in a matter of about a few minutes or so, and that seems like a good pace to me. Especially true if either of the ships are Mon Calamari. Independence class ships all seem to take forever to die anyway. I remember a 20 or so minute brawl to take one down with about 20 Katana dreadnoughts in the Thrawn Campaign.

#42 Ghostrider

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:01 AM

Aha, well I hope it all goes well! I'm terribly excited.


I have 2 odd questions.

2) Not that I expect this to change... but are hull and shield strengths canon? It strikes me how quickly ships go down, in comparison to say RoTJ, were the final battle (with relatively few Rebel starships) went on forever! I have this strange temptation to double all the figures in the INI files... although that would probably take foooorever.


Firstly, all hull and shield strengths are canon. We are Very tough on that sort of thing. Secondly, in the battles, if you conentrate fire on one ship, yes it will go down pretty fast.
Also in RoTJ the rebels had a lot of ships (remember the sparkles backdrop when Luke is in the throneroom, but the camera work never showed the whole fleet. It also focussed on Home One a lot. In fact the camera work in RoTJ probably enspired BattleCam - you try fighting a space battle with Battle-Cam stuck on permanently and you won't have a clue on the size of your fleet!

And finally, time-frames: actual space battles in the books took hours - but the game can't simulate that depth of pre-combat manoeuvering so game battles are probably slightly time-lapsed!

PR will be able to give you a more technical/detailed review of Eaw battles vs RoTJ but the hull and shield values are canon. We don't mess with that - and in fact we spend a lot of time behind the scenes making sure that our files are canon, and there have been times when we will argue back and forth on a single point of canon and end up changing ONE UNIT on ONE PLANET to ensure true canonicity!

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#43 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:48 AM

1) Is it possible to remove the FOC musical score on the tactical maps?

It is, but let's put it to a community vote. There's also varying degrees to which this can be accomplished.

2) Not that I expect this to change... but are hull and shield strengths canon?

They're based on the X-wing series, which is one of a few C-canon interpretations out there. I'm sure you could debate for or against any of them.

It's pretty easy to globally scale those values though, if you like. See Object_Max_Health_Multiplier_Space and Default_Defense_Adjust in GameConstants.xml.

And finally, time-frames: actual space battles in the books took hours - but the game can't simulate that depth of pre-combat manoeuvering so game battles are probably slightly time-lapsed!

This is the best argument against making ships stronger. In a standard GC, you're expected to fight dozens of battles. There's something to be said about game pacing to prevent players from getting bored and quitting the campaign before the final victory, G-canon or not.

It's difficult to interpret ship stats from the movies. The reality is that many of the armaments, even, were assigned by roleplaying games. Rebels also tend to blow things up through some kind of fantastic exploit rather than by slugging it out.

We don't mess with that - and in fact we spend a lot of time behind the scenes making sure that our files are canon, and there have been times when we will argue back and forth on a single point of canon and end up changing ONE UNIT on ONE PLANET to ensure true canonicity!

This is true and probably drives Ghost mad. I'm fortunate he puts up with my trivialities!

#44 Tropical Bob

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 10:19 AM

Rebels also tend to blow things up through some kind of fantastic exploit rather than by slugging it out.

There's a thermal exhaust port in everything.

Including Darth Vader's heart.

#45 Rhakorii

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:00 AM

Aha. I'm not critiquing the mod, just curious. I seem to have battles were the capitals slug it out for 20 minutes, and then other battles were they drop like flies (this is mostly in Skirmish mind). It always takes me by surprise when an Tector class Star Destroy blows away a fairly sized ship in a matter of seconds... the poor Calamari are turned into Tuna cans before they make it to the escape mods.

I wouldn't expect the FOC song to be removed from the mod - I was just wondering if it's possible to do - so I could make my own personal attempt. It drives me mad! Trivial agitation at best.

#46 Ghostrider

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:47 PM

Aha. I'm not critiquing the mod, just curious. I seem to have battles were the capitals slug it out for 20 minutes, and then other battles were they drop like flies (this is mostly in Skirmish mind). It always takes me by surprise when an Tector class Star Destroy blows away a fairly sized ship in a matter of seconds... the poor Calamari are turned into Tuna cans before they make it to the escape mods.

I wouldn't expect the FOC song to be removed from the mod - I was just wondering if it's possible to do - so I could make my own personal attempt. It drives me mad! Trivial agitation at best.



Ah. Skirmish battles are always faster becuase skirmish uses fully upgraded ships. The shields and hull are admittedly stronger, but weapon loadouts, especially on the Tector-class are much heavier.
Tectors were designed as anti-capital capitals and The Tector IV's 6(16) Heavy Plasma Torpedo Launchers will efectively negate Mon Calamari shields rather quickly, leaving the multiple turbolaser batteries to punch massive holes in the vulnerable hull; - sushi time!


Your fleet admiral needs to have a few escorting fighters and armed transports as Tectors have no defence against heavy fighters or bombers....

#47 Rhakorii

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 01:03 PM


Aha. I'm not critiquing the mod, just curious. I seem to have battles were the capitals slug it out for 20 minutes, and then other battles were they drop like flies (this is mostly in Skirmish mind). It always takes me by surprise when an Tector class Star Destroy blows away a fairly sized ship in a matter of seconds... the poor Calamari are turned into Tuna cans before they make it to the escape mods.

I wouldn't expect the FOC song to be removed from the mod - I was just wondering if it's possible to do - so I could make my own personal attempt. It drives me mad! Trivial agitation at best.



Ah. Skirmish battles are always faster becuase skirmish uses fully upgraded ships. The shields and hull are admittedly stronger, but weapon loadouts, especially on the Tector-class are much heavier.
Tectors were designed as anti-capital capitals and The Tector IV's 6(16) Heavy Plasma Torpedo Launchers will efectively negate Mon Calamari shields rather quickly, leaving the multiple turbolaser batteries to punch massive holes in the vulnerable hull; - sushi time!


Your fleet admiral needs to have a few escorting fighters and armed transports as Tectors have no defence against heavy fighters or bombers....


Ooh, so those armed transports actually do make a difference? I thought they were just fancy cannon fodder...

#48 evilbobthebob

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 01:58 PM

Let's just say that in v1.2 you won't want to face military transports if you can help it.

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#49 Guest_panzer_*

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:17 PM

Ooh, so those armed transports actually do make a difference? I thought they were just fancy cannon fodder...


The AI sure thinks so. They were spamming so many Barloz class transports I had to completely change the composition of my fleets (to include lots of nasty ATR's) to deal with them

#50 Madurai

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:30 PM

Transports already do a pretty thorough job of beating up on fighters of the same generation. Are you say this is getting even worse in 1.2?

#51 evilbobthebob

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:57 PM

Not exactly. There are just more ships with transport complements, and therefore more transports to worry about.

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#52 Rhakorii

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:09 PM

On the topic of skirmish - has anybody else noticed unusual behavior?

I've not had one battle (varying numbers of team players and difficulties) that made it to the capital-ship stage. In the occasional game a Calamari cruiser might appear, but it's blown out of the water veeery quickly.
I played a game earlier today, the computer only used one of its mines, and just didn't build anything... It upgrade its space stations, hyped in the odd frigate, but made no effort what so ever. By the time it bothered to engage me, I had 6 SD's, and an armada of fighters.

Mind you, it's still entertaining. If anything it's made me appreciate the abilities of smaller ships, and figure out what counters what - I'm just surprised the AI prefers to fighter spam!

#53 Ghostrider

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:38 AM

Just so you know, V1.2 features improvements to Skirmish mode as well!

#54 Rhakorii

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:15 PM

It keeps getting better.

#55 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:11 PM

Just so you know, V1.2 features improvements to Skirmish mode as well!

This is mostly in response to community/tester feedback. Looking forward to critiques on the next release.

#56 Rhakorii

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:57 PM

i just don't understand this AI! One minute it's building 50 gazillion X-Wings and Y-Wings, the next minute it stops building anything at all...

It's like it has self confidence issues, the moment you turn a fight toward your own favour is also the moment the AI gives up! It's Italian AI, that's what it is.

*Is just bitter because, after setting the difficulty to 'hard' the AI sent a horde of fighters that blocked out the sun, thus ending my 'undefeated' streak*

Edited by Rhakorii, 30 September 2011 - 10:27 PM.


#57 Stormhawk

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:11 PM

Just so you know, V1.2 features improvements to Skirmish mode as well!

This is mostly in response to community/tester feedback. Looking forward to critiques on the next release.


Is the build queue split suggestion implemented?

#58 Ghostrider

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:36 AM

Is the build queue split suggestion implemented?


Can you elaborate? Which queue split suggestion?

#59 evilbobthebob

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:01 AM

I assume he means the split between the fighter factory and Golan, in which case yes, it has been implemented and makes for an interesting dynamic.

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#60 Rhakorii

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 11:17 AM

Being the old-school Naval fanatic, longing for the days when armour-clad beasts would slog it out for hours on end, I went ahead with my 'increase every hull + shield strength by a factor of 10' plan.

The result is perfect for me, fleet battles take an age, and I find the length of combat allows for much more dynamic and tactical play. I imagine I'll be auto-resolving a lot of battles, but good god is it fun.

Edited by Rhakorii, 01 October 2011 - 03:37 PM.




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