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Prepare For Ground Assault


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#21 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:18 PM

Just a small curiosity, in the first of the last pair of images,a B-Wing torpedo seems to be missing due to the interference of the AT-AA's jamming field. Is this accurate, and a secondary question, if that AT-AA shoots down the B-Wings, does that mean you lose a squadron of B-Wings in Galactic?

Yes! The AT-AA x2 adds the Missile Shield seen in EaW (although we adapted it a bit for PR).

Bomber losses in Tactical don't translate to Galactic, which is unfortunate, but that's how it's programmed. It's also not possible to have anything but three units on a run.

Here's something to throw out there - i've only just thought of it - but should heroic fighters be allowed to make bombing runs when we get round to V1.3?

Hmm. Probably not, if only because you could have Wedge on the ground and the engine would still consider his hero squadron to be in orbit, so there'd be two Wedges if you called for air support.

So military transports cannot be used for bombing runs, then? Shoot, Gamma transports strafing with turbolasers and proton rockets sounds just awesome.

You'll find planets with H6 Turbolaser Tower defenses that are quite literally the equivalent of one ATR-6.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 30 November 2011 - 09:20 PM.


#22 Tropical Bob

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:12 PM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#23 skie9173

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 01:05 AM

Hmm. Probably not, if only because you could have Wedge on the ground and the engine would still consider his hero squadron to be in orbit, so there'd be two Wedges if you called for air support.


Does this mean Wedge (and possibly other heroes) has a ground unit now? An airspeeder squadron maybe? Or are ground heroes reserved for a later release?

Yes yes I know probably reserved for a future news release but it was worth a shot at pumping them for info :wink_new:
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#24 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:14 AM

Does this mean Wedge (and possibly other heroes) has a ground unit now? An airspeeder squadron maybe? Or are ground heroes reserved for a later release?

All heroic StarCom Pilots can be brought into a ground battle to provide leadership for airspeeders - note the Red Squadron X-wing landing here - but only Luke II comes with a T-47 at this point (he's our test case). We don't have a TIE Pilot model, so the Imperials sadly have to sit it out. It's not the ideal situation.

#25 Decay

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:11 AM

Oh....my....agawd. You guys had me excited about the AI and galactic conquest overhaul, but this? This is just... I can't even elaborate on the magnitude of my excitement! Can't wait, you guys kick @$#!

#26 Ghostrider

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:02 AM

Can't wait, you guys kick @$#!


No. You mean Operation Shadow Hand AT-ATx4's with emplacement scale (XX-10) turbolasers. :ninja:

Edited by Ghostrider, 01 December 2011 - 07:31 PM.


#27 coinich

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:56 PM

I always thought original EaW land combat was gimped. Dear lord, am I looking forward to 1.2. :D

#28 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:59 PM

You mean Operation Shadow Hand AT-ATx4's with emplacement scale (XX-10) turbolasers. :ninja:

They're actually mediums. XX-10s are heavy.

#29 Pellean

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:23 PM

As always, the agonizing wait for news was well-worth it; this is incredible!
Don't think, Fingan, you aren't properly equipped for it.

#30 skie9173

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:08 AM

Another question, did the infantry ever get worked out so that they use their grenades more effectively? Arcing throws rather than mini-missles? Or is that something with the code can't be changed?

Thanks
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#31 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:18 AM

Another question, did the infantry ever get worked out so that they use their grenades more effectively? Arcing throws rather than mini-missles? Or is that something with the code can't be changed?

Sort of. I wouldn't say it's perfect yet. Ground projectiles travel at relatively accurate speeds now, so obviously a thrown grenade is on the lowest end of that spectrum. I can control grenade gravity by projectile, but the lob angle appears to be modified only by the fire bone. The engine seems incapable of optimizing the best angle to throw at within the fire cone - it looks like it's just aiming from fire bone to target bone - so with vanilla infantry, you'll see grenades being thrown straight at someone and hitting the ground in front of them. Only way to change it is to import/export all vanilla infantry models and add an additional fire bone set at an upward angle, which is how the ZC mercenary grenadier was rigged. Collision also needs to be tightened up for all, so it's going to be a time-consuming process.

#32 scotty75

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:38 AM

Does this mean Wedge (and possibly other heroes) has a ground unit now? An airspeeder squadron maybe? Or are ground heroes reserved for a later release?

All heroic StarCom Pilots can be brought into a ground battle to provide leadership for airspeeders - note the Red Squadron X-wing landing here - but only Luke II comes with a T-47 at this point (he's our test case). We don't have a TIE Pilot model, so the Imperials sadly have to sit it out. It's not the ideal situation.


Would it be possible to have X-wings land with their s-foils closed?

#33 Guest_Madurai_*

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

The mistake I made last time was allowing units to become invincible if armor exceeded damage, so a half-point minimum is now in place for any regular hit.



Wait--that's not a mistake; that's how armor is supposed to work. If you have a system whereby a tank can be machinegunned to death, that's what's broken.

#34 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:56 PM

Would it be possible to have X-wings land with their s-foils closed?

Yeah, starfighter landings actually aren't animated at the moment, but the main transports are.

The mistake I made last time was allowing units to become invincible if armor exceeded damage, so a half-point minimum is now in place for any regular hit.

Wait--that's not a mistake; that's how armor is supposed to work. If you have a system whereby a tank can be machinegunned to death, that's what's broken.

I think impervious armor is fine for real-time tactics, but EaW is really built to be a strategy game and not enough can be done through modding to effectively change that. So, I've tried to embrace strategy with our design: units are generally disposable (no veterancy, no in-battle upgrades) and we don't simulate realistic cyclic rates. You're not going to see repeating blasters firing at 1200 RPM, since we're using a condensed scale for ranges and figure some aiming is involved.

Medium armor, like the Freerunner has, shrugs 8 damage, which is the same output as your basic blaster rifle (that fires every 2 seconds). I wanted to eliminate the scenario where one vehicle could take out companies of rifle-armed soldiers. It takes 1024 rifle rounds to destroy the Freerunner Mark I and there are 40 soldiers per platoon, so you can do the math. Bear in mind, blasters are not accurate against vehicles.

Extra credit: at an engagement range of 300 meters (max range for Stormtrooper One rifle), a Stormtrooper has a spread radius of 15 meters against landspeeders. Armored Freerunner dimensions are roughly 14.6 meters by 4.6 meters if it presents a profile. What percentage of shots fired by the Stormtroopers would hit? (Shot grouping is random within the radius in EaW.)

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 03 December 2011 - 10:59 PM.


#35 Stormhawk

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:05 PM

Medium armor, like the Freerunner has, shrugs 8 damage, which is the same output as your basic blaster rifle (that fires every 2 seconds). I wanted to eliminate the scenario where one vehicle could take out companies of rifle-armed soldiers. It takes 1024 rifle rounds to destroy the Freerunner Mark I and there are 40 soldiers per platoon, so you can do the math. Bear in mind, blasters are not accurate against vehicles.

Extra credit: at an engagement range of 300 meters (max range for Stormtrooper One rifle), a Stormtrooper has a spread radius of 15 meters against landspeeders. Armored Freerunner dimensions are roughly 14.6 meters by 4.6 meters if it presents a profile. What percentage of shots fired by the Stormtroopers would hit? (Shot grouping is random within the radius in EaW.)


So about 51 seconds of continuous firing to destroy a Freerunner, assuming 100% accuracy and assuming the platoon takes no losses and fires at full strength the whole time. It's basically impervious to small arms at that point.

Also, only 9.5% accuracy on the stormtrooper squad against the Freerunner? Am I doing this math right?

#36 Tropical Bob

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:23 PM

The mistake I made last time was allowing units to become invincible if armor exceeded damage, so a half-point minimum is now in place for any regular hit.



Wait--that's not a mistake; that's how armor is supposed to work. If you have a system whereby a tank can be machinegunned to death, that's what's broken.

No material is 100% efficient in heat transfer, except for maybe the quantum-crystalline armor of the Sun Crusher. Which means that weapons that transfer a lot of heat energy to a target, like the likely plasma-based Star Wars weaponry, will eventually melt through the armor or even simply cook the crew inside.

#37 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:35 PM

Also, only 9.5% accuracy on the stormtrooper squad against the Freerunner? Am I doing this math right?

That's what I got :good:. So 539 seconds, or 9 minutes, to kill the unarmed Freerunner (hint: there is no such thing). But accuracy improves linearly as you get closer, and there are more powerful rifles in the game.

The point of this was to demonstrate that these are completely new rules, not an updated version of what you're used to. Also, to pay attention in math class, because you can use it to power game :xd:.

#38 Madurai

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:18 AM

Also, only 9.5% accuracy on the stormtrooper squad against the Freerunner? Am I doing this math right?

That's what I got :good:. So 539 seconds, or 9 minutes, to kill the unarmed Freerunner (hint: there is no such thing). But accuracy improves linearly as you get closer, and there are more powerful rifles in the game.



That sounds promising--I always wondered where those guys with the tripod-mounted blasters had gotten misplaced to.

#39 Ghostrider

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:21 AM

Wait--that's not a mistake; that's how armor is supposed to work. If you have a system whereby a tank can be machinegunned to death, that's what's broken.



Trust me. It ain't broke.
What it does mean is that if you let your freerunner get too close to a mob of soldiers, the paint is gonna get scratched, but no trooper can survive a freerunner laser blast, so the bodies tend to pile up fast.

What it does mean is that if you forget about infantry, then those same troopers get close enough to lob grenades, and that hurts a bit more.

Try the same trick in a lightly armored swamp speeder and infantry just give you a right pasting.

The point is that tanks are realistically pretty impervious to infantry if you are sensible, but you can't ignore stormtrooper fire indefinitely.

#40 Nertea

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 06:50 PM

Nice that this is finally getting rolled out :). Good luck with things guys, I hope I'll have some time to do a few more models in the new year.

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