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Adepts (yuri clones) and ai spam

mind control tank spam build spam build times mental omega yuris revenge

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#1 Shaithias

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:40 AM

First off, the Ai seems to have no build time restrictions. I have kirovs coming at me before I have even started building my lab. This was on normal. Second off, the Ai seems to have a massive money boost. Lastly, yuri clones or as they are called "epsilon adepts" don't auto target enemy units over walls. In the original yuris revenge the yuri clones auto attacked over walls. The drawback is that you can no longer set up 6 or so adepts in a tiny box and use them as base defense. And because lasher tanks cant take rhino tanks the epsilon team fails early game due to that interplay. Of course, you can let the adepts sit out in the open but that is throwing money away. Also, the epsilon stealth device causes the game to lag badly. The russian kirovs combined with their migs are a pain in the tush. Base defenses cannot handle the combo under any circumstances. A single kirov can tank an unthinkable number of base air defenses while the migs dart in and take no return fire while they knock out the base power. That is unbalanced. There is no defense against it, no way to counter it and it basically comes down to a whoever launches kirovs and mig squadrons first gets an insta win. And that always happens to be the pc because of its insanely low build times. And its infinite money supply. You shouldn't be able to pump out 20+ rhinos in the first 4 minutes AND have a super well developed base. Oh and scale the game based on delta time The way you do that is this:

 

(obviously pseudocode)

double time;

double deltatime=1;

 

time=system.gettime()

game.update(deltatime)

game.draw()

deltatime= system.gettime()- time;

 

update(double deltatime)

{

     multiply delta time by the change in position of individual units. 

}

what this does is it scales game speed off of cpu power, and not on real time elapsed and so the game speed will stay constant and not speed up or slow down based on the number of units in memory. The mental omega mod seems to not scale based on time as well.

 

TLDR-

Fix the auto attack for epsilon adepts

Remove Migs from Russian arsenal, or lower their damage

Fix the unlimited cash and low build time for ai

Scale to delta time instead of cpu speed

Fix the stealth sprites for buildings. Perhaps, put a dark cloud or dark eye above them.



#2 Hecthor Doomhammer

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:56 AM

Well, 1 thing I can say, if you've paid attention to the media releases and the website, MiG's are out for 3.0, so you won't have to worry about that any more.

 

Also The new Chimera Core will only cloak units, not buildings


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#3 Starkku

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:18 PM

Making Yuri's Revenge framerate-independent would take more than just snapping one's fingers - for starters it's not something a modder can do, we're not modding a cutting-edge engine with developer-provided SDK's or anything. So no, I don't think the point #4 of your TL;DR list is going to happen.


Edited by Starkku, 11 August 2013 - 02:19 PM.

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#4 Graion Dilach

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:49 PM

Speaking in engine terms from Ares developer POV, I'm with Starkku. You can't make this game framerate-independent because most logics depend on it afterall.


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#5 lovalmidas

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:22 PM

Welcome to the forums, Shaithias. As said by those before, many of the issues have been fixed in a way or another in 3.0. Do note that we won't be changing elements in MO2.0 so you'd have to wait for 3.0 beta to see those fixes. 

 

First off, the Ai seems to have no build time restrictions. I have kirovs coming at me before I have even started building my lab. This was on normal. Second off, the Ai seems to have a massive money boost.

 

The amount of boost is now more controlled and varies between different gamemodes (Battle Mode vs Meteor Swarm Mode). Right now, the AI is beatable by our testers, and they don't spam higher tier units too early (though if you are too slow, it can still out-tech you :p). And no, AI will still cheat a bit. ;)

 

Lastly, yuri clones or as they are called "epsilon adepts" don't auto target enemy units over walls. In the original yuris revenge the yuri clones auto attacked over walls. The drawback is that you can no longer set up 6 or so adepts in a tiny box and use them as base defense.

 

Epsilon adepts now auto-acquire targets beyond walls, sometimes at the expense of me failing missions (lol). These are for adepts merely standing behind walls; I never tried walling adepts completely as base defense (I don't know how that tactic will work out in 3.0 too). xD

 

And because lasher tanks cant take rhino tanks the epsilon team fails early game due to that interplay.

 

Perhaps in 2.0. In 3.0, infantry are better and they can serve as defence against a Tier 1 tank rush. Also, epsilon tanks are cheaper (in 2.0 too) so you can out-produce them.

 

Also, the epsilon stealth device causes the game to lag badly.

 

This has been observed to occur only for buildings. In 3.0, no buildings will be cloaked, only units. This has resolved quite a significant portion of the lag.

 

The russian kirovs combined with their migs are a pain in the tush. Base defenses cannot handle the combo under any circumstances. A single kirov can tank an unthinkable number of base air defenses while the migs dart in and take no return fire while they knock out the base power. That is unbalanced. There is no defense against it, no way to counter it and it basically comes down to a whoever launches kirovs and mig squadrons first gets an insta win.

 

Soviets no longer have MiGs (as do the Epsilon - no more building toasting Starflares :p). The Kirov remains heavily armored but are now super slow.

 

Oh and scale the game based on delta time The way you do that is this:

etc. etc. etc.

 

Well, I don't know how beneficial this idea would be, but RA2 engine is too dependent on using framerate in its calculations. To change that will require at least significant overhaul of the engine. Like Starkku said, editing the engine is beyond modder capability.

 

You can try applying for Ares development team if you think you can code and change that (including adjusting every logic to use the new variable). :p


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#6 Graion Dilach

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:32 PM

Honestly... easier said than done. Prolly easier to rewrite the whole engine from scratch upon SDL than shaping up gamemd for framerate-independent physics.


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