49 replies to this topic

[megabalta]

Some gameplay design ideas about how to make the game more challanging. I'm posting them here, because PR1.2 was great and really close to what I imagine as a good strategy game. These are basically just ideas, I'm curious about which ones will the developers find plausible. 

[megabalta]

Tactical Gameplay Overhaul Theory for Galactic Conquest

Goal: making the game canon not with rules, but bonus and penalty logic in an open end sandbox type gameplay.

Considering EAW a tactical strategy game, calculating indirect ecological consequenses of military actions is essential, but active management and politics are not a gameplay goal.

 

Different empire and rebellion gameplay.

 

Empire gameplay: essentially keeping together an empire, managing and organizing a huge military apparatus to quell insurrections, rebellions and piracy; guarding strategic planets, trade routes and supply lines, researching new technologies to cut costs and be more effective. Find the rebel scum, assemble your forces and steamroll the Alliance with overwhelming military superiority. Galaxy Far Far Away main goals: end the organized Rebellion by detaining its leaders (Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Garm Bel Iblis) (further goals: conquer all rebel systems).

+ giant military superpower / - spread with economical weak points and many enemies

 

Rebellion gameplay: play hide and seek, use hit and run guerilla tactics to weaken the empire, raid or occupy key planets, harass trade routes, hire mercenaries, liberate planets to bolster military and economy, board and capture enemy ships, hire smugglers to siphon money and get supplies. Use agents to spy on systems, cause insurrections, to steal plans and advance in technology. Infiltrate the empire to sabotage its economy, military and research. Cause a thousand wounds, and see the Empire collapse under its own weight. GFFA main goals: kill the Emperor, occupy Corruscant (further goals: eradicate Imperial remnant).

+ mobile and stealthy, only weak points are leaders / - outmanned, outgunned

 

How to achieve this:

 

1.Galaxy Map

 

1a. Old/new not playable factions         

1a§1. Neutral (green), independent /CSA worlds, do not attack empire/rebel forces in space, lets supply lines trough, freemarket ship and arms deals (modified vanilla rebel tech advance system mechanic), frequent insurrections if conquered, neutral neighbours shift to enemy if conquered.

1a§2. Pirates and underworld (yellow), few base planets, galactic stealth fleets, raids anywhere, builds lots of smugglers, requires no supply lines because of smugglers and stealth space raid fleets

 

1b. Specialized planets: planets tactical value depends on premade abilities ( tax credits /trade route/, food /agriculture/, raw resources /mining operations/, personnel /academy, university/, vehicles /industrial capacity/, starships /orbital shipyard/, space colonies and starbases), creating new buildings or unit production on inappropirate planets is possible but expensive/time consuming. Unique essential planets to unlock production and researches (like mining operation on Aeten2/3-stealth tech-tie phantom).   

 

1c. Hyperspace routes: more routes/crossings/navigation points (canon) gives more tactical choices, players will not be able to leave half a galaxy unguarded, but is not able to put significant garrisons on every planet, possibly leads imperial player to adopt sector command system, rebels to hq and patrol system.

 

1d. Starting planet occupations: 40% empire, 20% rebel, 30% neutral, 10% underworld

 

1e. Stronger campaign starting forces for instant action. Empire: clone armies and navy cruisers; Rebellion: secforce troopers, corellian and exCIS ships, mon calamari starliners.

 

2.Economy

 

Income: comes from taxes of occupied worlds, merchant docks representing trade, mining operations on planets and asteroids. Tax income generated depends on planet, for trade income player has to build merchant docks if not present (trade routes give bonus income), for mining income player has to build expensive mining operations (model: mines in vanilla, ).

 

Costs: adjusted to income. Starbases, research, garrisons, factories, mining operations, capital ships should cost a lot, building new orbital shipyards a fortune.

 

Goal: keep a good balance of income and costs, eliminating credit overflow in late games. Cut income to a level of needing "tactical choices”. No more building golan3s over unimportant backwater planets, researching laser armed tugboat just for fun. Conquering insignificant systems will not worth it, leaving your crucial systems underdefended, losing precious buildings to an enemy raid or piracy will make your economy collapse, thus you’ll lose the game fast. Modernizing by recycling (selling) ships is a must. Losing a capital ship will be a great loss not just an annoyance. This will hopefully lead to epic battles with 20 capital ships to be truly an epic feeling.

 

3.Supply System

Supplies are needed for every military operation. Organizing logistics, protecting supply lines is crucial for success. Supply lines consist of transports and freighters connecting fleets to supply bases.

 

Supply point system: every starbase provides supply points (these could be equal to tactical population points) to all nearby connected planets, every warship/land unit has supply cost, connecting them are faction transports and freighters having their own supply transport point worth (they need supply points but they also give the same amount of supply points to neighbouring planets, basically transferring supply points). Fleets can not operate without satisfying supplies, retreating to nearest starbase automatically after a couple days if not provided (raid fleet tactic: attack without supply line, then retreat). Smugglers also provide some supply points when smuggling on enemy planets.

Example: dagobah: lvl2 starbase (40 supply points) – next1_planet: 4 freighters (10 supply transfer points each = 4*10=40) – next2_planet: 10 frigates (4 sp each = 4*10=40). If player wants to attack a next3_planet and keep it if winning, player have to move 4 additional freighters to next2_planet to keep the supply line linked. If freighters are destroyed on next1_planet, all unsupplied ships will return to base from next2 and next3_planets within a couple of days, thus losing the systems space garrison.

Planetary economy supply system under consideration.

 

4.New build system

 

4a. modified starbase system (utility/supply/defense); main goal is to remove some lag from galactic map by removing transports and freighters, simultaneously adding living space ports to some planets, and a reason to protect them from piracy and capture.

 

4a§1. utility space stations, no armament, easily boarded and captured

-space colony /lvl 1-5, provides workers to build and operate in space/

-merchant docks (model vanilla merchant docks): provides tax income, comes with neutral utils, transports, freighters and container yards (eyecandy: spawned only on tactical map, not counted on galactic map)

-asteroid mining operation (provides mining income, comes with neutral utils, freighters (eyecandy: spawned only on tactical map, not counted on galactic map))

-shipyard /Small (model: x7 factory): utils, fighters, bombers, transports; Medium (model: various vanilla models per planet): freighters, corvettes, frigates, cruisers; Large (model: Sluis Van shipyards) destroyers, capitals, dreadnaughts/

-research station

-sensor station

-gravity well station

-neutral native space station (various models per planet, not buildable if destroyed, lvl5 space colony/merchant docks)

 

4a§2. faction star bases /needed to supply space operations, does not need space colony to build/

-star base /lvl 1-5/ upgradable to give more supply points, the place to recruit starship crews only on academy worlds

-asteroid base /lvl 1-5/ cheaper star base (buildable only on certain planets)

 

4a§3. orbital defense stations

-asteroid defense stations (cheapest general defense)

-orbital defense satellites and minefields (cheap general defense)

-xq platform (anti-fighter defense)

-golan I-II-III (anti-starship defense)

 

4b. modified land base system (garrison/utility/defense)

4b§1. garrison

-Normal infantry regiment hq (recruit army units), garrisons 4 battalions, 4 companies each (in tactical mode represented by 4*4 platoons)

-Elite infantry regiment hq (recruit elite units), buildable only on academy and university worlds, garrisons 4 battalions, 4 companies each (in tactical mode represented by 4*4 platoons)

 

4b§2. utility (can be captured)

-Vehicle Factories (really expensive and slow on unappropriate worlds, but buildable for credit and time discounts on industrial planets, same with production)

-Mining operation (max 1/planet) gives extra income, expensive to build and minimal income on unappropriate worlds, bonus income mining+ planets and asteroids

-Special structures   

 

4b§3. defense

-Defense structures

 

5.New unit abilities:

Rebel galactic stealth, small, space raid fleets

Rebel galactic stealth infiltrator teams: covertly destroy enemy buildings and units

Rebel agents (spies) abilities like vanilla Zann Defiler: spies on systems, makes arms deals, steals plans from research facilities, shipyards and factories, causes insurrections, bribes army and space garrisons, sabotages research and production facilities (longer completion time).

Rebel smugglers: siphons money, grants supplies from enemy planets

 

Imperial intelligence officers and heroes: detect and remove agents

Bounty hunters: remove enemy heroes and smugglers

 

6.New active abilites:

Minefield: minelayer bombers/transports/corvettes, ability to lay space minefield (execution time) 2 types: proximity mine (stealth proximity mines, deadly against starships – counter with fighters, laser cannon mines against fighters/bombers - counter with corvettes/frigates) (asteroid/buzz droid/landmine rules)

 

Clear proximity minefield: tugboat

 

Board and capture: /like corruption ability on land/ with this ability players special boarding units (stormtrooper transport squad abilities (disable, board and capture; changes object alliance to neutral (grey); execution time: 30sec) works only on or below frigate size ships 

 

Dock: starship crew lambda shuttle squad /12 shuttles/ ability; docks neutral (grey) space objects (execution time: 30sec) take control of abandoned enemy ships and utility space stations (ownership changes are permanent and stay on galactic map)

 

Abandon ship (execute in 15sec): cruiser+ starship crew escapes on transports, abandoned ships stay as salvaged ships over planets on galaxy map, could be used with new crew to build ship without shipyard (hero mechanic)

 

7.New starship build mechanic:

Building frigates, cruisers, destroyers, capitals, dreadnaughts (hero mechanic): 1. build a crew in a starbase on an academy planet, 2. transport crew to appropriate lvl shipyard, 3. build a ship;

alternative: 1.same, 2. transport crew to abandoned/salvaged ship location, 3. build a ship cheap without shipyard

Edited by megabalta, 05 January 2014 - 02:29 AM.

[evilbobthebob]

This is a really good, well thought-out post with some excellent ideas. I've personally considered some similar things myself. I'll go point-by-point through your post when I have a little more time, because you deserve knowing what's definitely possible, theoretically possible, and unfortunately impossible within the game engine. Most of your suggestions are somewhat outside the design of PR (at the moment anyway) but they are something that a mod of PR could accomplish with some serious time and effort.

 

 

Okay so here are my thoughts on your ideas.

 

Overall Empire/Rebel strategy: very good ideas, however somewhat outside the current scope of PR right now. Since you go into more detail on this I will address the individual points as they arise.

 

1) a1) Independent/CSA worlds cannot be set to allow passage without either removing all space fleets or making them entirely neutral. This is not in line with what we want, especially with regards to the CSA. Other methods such as the Bribe mechanic the Consortium uses in Forces of Corruption is not really doable. The freemarket is somewhat possible but only for one faction. Insurrections are not possible without a lot of scripting (and even then I'm not sure if that would work very well) and neighbours switching allegiance is not something that I believe is possible without even more scripting (again, might not work).

 

a2) Galactic stealth fleets are possible I think. Space raiding, however, is not...a stealth fleet cannot be brought out of stealth to "raid" in space.

 

b) Already a part of our extensive planetary advantages rework. Special structures are currently not something we want too many of due to user interface limits.

 

c) Our reworked galactic map (hyperspace routes are the only method of travel) handles this.

 

d) We prefer a little more balance in our sandbox campaigns with an emphasis on independent worlds. This may change.

 

e) Starting forces are always under review and are generally more capable in our latest internal releases.

 

2) We significantly reworked the economic system along with the planet revamp (see Ghost's post, Planets by Numbers, in News). It resulted in what you are suggesting.

 

3) All units now cost galactic population points. Unfortunately, that is the extent to which we can simulate supply lines. Having a behind-the-scenes maintenance cost is not something we want.

 

4) Your stations ideas are good but are likely to severely clutter the user interface. Bear in mind that we have 13 slots maximum on each interface row (yes, it sucks). Land structure ideas are mostly covered by planetary bonuses and our existing structures. The closest we can get to "capturable" factories in combat are permanent neutral ones in tactical battles and planetary bonuses to production of certain units/unit types in galactic mode.

 

5) Stealth fleets are possible but cannot ever engage the enemy without an unstealthed unit present. I do not believe it is possible to add an ability in galactic mode to allow combat to take place. It may be possible with, again, extensive scripting.

 

Those infiltrator teams are possible (basically the defiler ability) but not very interesting for the Rebel player to use and incredibly annoying for the Empire player. We prefer a more active raid using actual platoons of units.

 

Using defiler mechanics for the Rebels would lock them out of usage for other potential factions. We've discussed the possibility of reworking the Corruption mechanics for Rebels but decided it wouldn't fit well in some circumstances.

 

Smugglers already exist and unfortunately cannot be used for the Supply resource you envisaged, as far as I know.

 

Intell officers are something we want to add and they'll do pretty much what you suggest though with existing enemy agents/heroes/etc.

 

Bounty Hunters are already in game.

 

6) Minefields are cool. However we don't really have an appropriate ship to lay them right now.

 

Boarding and capturing ships doesn't really work very well even with the corruption ability. Those units are removed at the end of battle, for a start. Secondly, the ability doesn't have a timed activation. Finally, it cannot be used to make units neutral. This unfortunately invalidates your further ideas about capturing ships. The game engine just doesn't support it properly.

 

7) This is too complicated and tedious from a game design standpoint.

Edited by evilbobthebob, 05 January 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[a.fake.name]

Along those lines..... is it possible to make systems with NO space station level ?

If so, adding a number of 'empty' systems would add space for the Rebels to play hide and seek.

[evilbobthebob]

It's possible, yes. In fact a couple of incredibly remote, barren worlds have no possibility of a space colony. However, they usually have a few pirate raiders in orbit.

[megabalta]

Well I couldn't stop thinkin about these stuff... sorry if its annoying.

So the main goal of this theory was to differentiate empire from rebel gameplay, a lot. All mods I've tried had the same gameplay as vanilla eaw (clash of two or more empires, balanced in units and strenght, ok they had some degree of differences like where to buy researches, what type of ships you use, but in the end it was like: take planets, build units, attack nearby planets til the enemy has none). It's standard rts gamleplay, planets are just places to spawn tactical battles (even Dune2 had something similar with territories in 1992). This is empire gameplay, thus the goal would be to create a rebel one.

I love PR, 'cause it gives at least some degree of tactics to galaxy map with economy and bonus system, so actual planets are something to think about. /This and canon units of course (man I love to see those fighters and starships like I remember them from Xwing)/ That's what you don't get in other shiny mods with 500 units/side. I think people who start a galactic conquest with 100 planets would want to play a tactical strategy game (or its just me), for casuals there's skirmish. Two different gameplay styles mean twice the replay value, and it's kinda starwars canon feeling (again, why would you play this mod if you're not a starwars fan).

That beeing said, some more thinking:

 

1) a1. Simulating independent worlds with removed space fleets/bases seems fine to me. Until now 90% of the space battles were the same: get big ships, go to planet, kill space stations and some other ships. As the game progressed sides had more and bigger ships. Who built more star destroyers/tie defenders or awings/bwings won. Thats zerg undermind gameplay. So having a relatively strong land garrison, and minimal/no space forces at all for independents is fine to me.

Goal is just what mr a.fake.name said. (plus I'm also enjoying playing small battles like a corvette, an xwing and a 1 ywing squadron against an imperial nebulonB, now that's where I miss the hardpoints and hate underpowered torpedoes and damage control). Smaller battles make me think, largers to click (seriously what tactic do you need with 5 star destroyers with antibomber cover, or 200 a+b wings, this also kills the purpose of unit varieties).

Freemarket would be enough for the rebel faction, since they are the ones, who don't have, thus don't have to protect many shipyards/planets. If rebels get their income from smugglers and buy stuff on neutral worlds, that makes them mobile. Keep in mind: rebels goals are not to conquer all planets, but to amass a force to kill the emperor and take corruscant, when opportunity arises For this they must sabotage imperial military production and researches (I think that sounds like canon). 

 

a2. I was thinking making rebel starfighters, transports, freighters, corvettes have galactic stealth like probes, and I saw this:

<Abilities SubObjectList="Yes">

<Galactic_Stealth_Ability Name="Ninja">

<Evade_Detection_Chance>0.0</Evade_Detection_Chance>

</Galactic_Stealth_Ability>

evade detection chance? sounds just what we need. This could also mean if you keep clicking your stealth fleet over a planet it could get caught thus beginning a battle (yeah sounds lame I know). Or I'm just misinterpreting something.

 

Ok, forget insurrections and alliance shifts, their goal was to harass the empire, so it could not concentrate on conquering the galaxy (bigger empire bigger problems), and have consequences when invading weak neutral planets. The game is only balanced canonically, if the empire is never able to turn all it's military power against the weaker rebellion and could almost never conquer all planets, giving the rebels space to hide. This would simulate the million planets of the GFFA, where the rebel scum could always hide, and this makes imperial intelligence important. As empire you should find, corner and hunt down your enemy, not conquer the hall galaxy.

Give rebels instead agents to sniff out vulnerable targets and researches and galaxy stealthed space raid fleets and infiltrator units. Like Kyle Katarn, like Rookie1, like that infiltrator guy. They should attack in space or land and kill weak garrisons and blow stuff up. By destroying mining operations, 5000 credits income per week, or research centers with incomplete tie phantom or dark trooper researches having 20000 credits invested are lost to the empire.

 

b) Excellent. Under special structures I meant like a cantina (I'd call it Freelancers guild or something, what there are no cantinas on corruscant?) or a mine (I'd call it mining operations, and 1 is enough/planet), so nothing new, it's just special because you can't build it anywhere (seriously what da hell are you mining on corruscant, older buildings?)

 

c) Can't wait to see. (btw navpoints could be space places only, like the maw, if you don't have enough routes)

 

d) I already wrote above about another type of balance, so I don't take your time again.

 

e) Oh please give the fledgeling Alliance mon calamari starliners across the galaxy to bring them to mon calamari or other big shipyards to upgrade them to cruisers (hero upgrade mechanic). It would be like a grand odyssey to bolster your ranks significantly, or lose a big opportunity. That is why I like sandbox games, you can make yourself your own missions.

 

2) Yesss! I've tried to do this with my version by 10x costs to shipyards and researches, but it's far from balanced, and the AI stands jawdropped.  

 

3) Gee, I'm sad, I was thinking about it for a couple of days.

Behind-the-scenes maintenance cost? Like maintaining a giant fleet for credits, not just building it and then say: ok go now, good hunting. That would mean a real vulnerable economy! You lose key planets/smugglers/mining/tax income, you lose military. That means winning by thinking! I think thats a great idea!

 

4) This particular station setup would grant rebel players to raid in space (meaning: destroy and fall back). Planetary bonuses could only be taken away if said planet is won and kept. If high cost space buildings provide bonuses (like income, ship production, research), it makes players think what he should attack/defend with his limited forces (called strategy). If all important space buildings could be built on one planet, it would be fairly easy for the empire to protect them (like put 20 star destroyers there, raid this scum). 
I understand the lack of slots, but if you make players specialize planets to certain type of production/research it should be no problem (for example: Kuat: large shipyard, Corellia: medium shipyard, Corruscant: native space station, planetary defense, the Maw: research etc.)

This would be two birds with one stone.

Native space station (free+its a merchant station so you don't need that either)/space colony (expensive)/asteroid base (cheap) are basically the same basic upgradable stations with various build costs, so they should not be present simultaniously on a single planet (1 slot).

Sensor and gravity stations could come together as Advanced Space Utility or whatnot if needed (1-2 slots).

Upgradable star bases could raise pop cap if there is no suppy system (is it possible to make a land pop cap and a different space pop cap?) or deleted. Not buildable on every planet (1 optional slot)

Asteroid bases and mining ops would be available only on asteroids, where no one would build a shipyard (not available) (no problem with slots without shipyards) 

Defense stations (1 extra slot besides golans for satellite/mine defense, if it's possible)

All in all this could mean more choice variety, thus specialization at the cost of all-level-shipyard or research planets (more important planets - more strategy protecting/attacking them). Well I had issues with slots before, and solved the problem by multiple building sites, so nothing new.

 

New concept for capture: make unarmed space stations neutral but destroyable in tactical battle, so you dont need to destroy them in battle if you dont want to, but if you do and then retreat, they'll disappear to the owner, and he has to rebuild them. If you capture the planet, they'll come free or cheap with it, so you don't have to build them (like if you captured them). For example: 1. you're rebel- you raid Kuat, blow up large shipyard, then retreat, empire is like :-(((  2. you're rebel again, you capture sluis van without need of destroying unarmed shipyard and merchant docks, you're like wow it came with free shipyard and civil freighters to convert them to warships... sweet. It's not realistic cause if you destroy neutral stations they'll still come with the planet free, but better than nothing. Is that even possible without 2 years of scripting?

Bonuses are cool, but  10% extra starship armor does not give me the impression of I must have that planet. Although they're cool.

 

5. Stealth fleets like above.

Piracy: pirate faction should have default bonus income /bounty mechanic/ for destroying ships and stations. This should give them credits to make more ships, and motivation to attack unarmed merchant docks, and empire/rebellion to defend them (remember: building space stations is expensive)

I disagree, infiltrator teams are very interesting for the Rebel player to use (small commando like covert ops infiltrating enemy bases, dealing with garrisons, destroying buildings and), because they are incredibly annoying for the Empire player (to lose lots of money, that could be used to build starships). If looks boring, you could always make different kinds of infiltrators (like heroes or even platoons). Of course you don't have to and can not raid all planets (for example: go against at-ats to destroy lvl2 chariot research is quite dumb) 

 

So you're making other factions, sounds good. I just hope it's not like the zann thing (the guy wanted to be rich, not rule the galaxy, but he ended up in a galactic conquest, poor sob) But if it would be like pirating to get a certain amount of money with ragtagged fleets, I'd for one go for it. Harrr.

Although I think pirates do not need red dressed predator dudes to sabotage mining facilites and build ysalamari cages on backwater worlds. (seriously who thought that it's a good idea to have an underworld consortium that could smoke hyperspace routes and hall planets, go politics by conquering the galaxy, blow up mining facilities and build animal cages across the galaxy? what were they thinking???)

 

I like smugglers, rebellion should use them more (getting paychecks without military occupieing planets is cool). Empire should ditch them criminals.

 

Intell officers yaay!

 

Do bounty hunters kill siphoning smugglers? Is it even possible? I hate them criminals!

 

6. If someone tells me how to make the ability to lay minefields in space I'll do it, adding this ab to a modified corvette, or bomber or something should not be a problem. Or stay with permanent defense minefields a'la map editor. Except someone should make mines as units in space first.

 

So no boarding and capturing possible. Poor rebels, they could've captured some nice nebulonB frigates. A shame.

 

7. Well this was just an idea to emphasize navy academies, and support board and capture. I'll live without it.

 

To sum up: no supply lines, no board and capture, possibly no stealthy rebel raid fleets possible. Well I've got a couple of other ideas up my sleeve if someone would like to read my rambling.

 

Again these are just ideas, and I posted them here because if I was able to make a mod myself, I would do something like PR. Great job team!

What you described as planned/coming in PR do sound really good. Thank you for answering in this lenght.

Edited by megabalta, 06 January 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[evilbobthebob]

Again it's good to read your suggestions and again I'll get back to you about it where relevant.

[a.fake.name]

Any plans to make fighters launch faster from ships ?

Cause as it stands now, it takes forever and a day.

[evilbobthebob]

Already done, though it is being tweaked as it is play tested.

[a.fake.name]

Good to hear.

Also, for campaigns, any way we could get some where the teams start with either a singe planet or a control of several in the same region, for those whom dislike having everything spread out so much at the start.

[megabalta]

I never really liked the Zann Consortium in the original FOC. They are not canon, units look like kaka, defilers look like gimps and smoke a lot, and Tyber Zann is a smalltime ahole not a criminal mastermind. So I've never really played the ZC faction exensiveliy. Yesterday I've returned to the original FOC, and noticed that the guys at Petroglyph created the perfect rebel gameplay, except not for the rebels.

Instead of spreading corruption, players could be making spy networks (without the yellow fart effect, as it should be hidden if it's spying, in empire gameplay it's more challenging to find something that is hidden, than pushing around the emperor to remove fartclouds), sabotaging projects and production trough buildings, bribing imperials is ok, we've seen it in canon, raiding behind enemy lines is possible thanks to bribing (so empire has to actually guard planets), buying units and technology advancement trough black market and stealing are also rebel-like. To counter all of this the empire has imperial intell officers with remove corruption=spies ability (they were cut from the final game, but I've read they are there somewhere).

Now I understand that it's a lot of work to convert an original faction to an expansion faction, and you are planning something with the consortium faction (if I understood correctly you want to make a playable CSA faction from it).

On the other hand this would radically enhance gameplay with the two main canon factions (especially in multiplayer), and differentiate between empire (static, conservative military tactics) and rebellion (dynamic, guerilla tactics) factions. CSA could get the old rebel gameplay (also more static), with slicing as industrial espionage.

It could sound like a major mod in itself. I posted this here, because if I understand correctly PR is about making EAW more canon-like (and damn good doing so). 

Again it's just a concept, I wrote for consideration.

[evilbobthebob]

Using the Consortium setup for the Rebels is something I've suggested to PR myself. We had some internal discussions about it but ultimately decided against it.

[a.fake.name]

I never really liked the Zann Consortium in the original FOC. They are not canon

Indeed, that is a big example of the reasons why I laughed when Lucasarts was shut down.
Simply put, they decided to remake stuff for the mass market appeal rather than just stick with what made it good.
 

 

Using the Consortium setup for the Rebels is something I've suggested to PR myself. We had some internal discussions about it but ultimately decided against it.

What reason did y'all decide upon for not doing it ?
It seems like the perfect solution to me.

[megabalta]

A good question indeed, I'm also curious. If you have the time and are in the mood, please share with us, what the contras were there.

[evilbobthebob]

Basically it's planned to be used in the Black Sun faction in the future.

Edited by evilbobthebob, 11 January 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[megabalta]

Does EAW really need a third side? I mean, if it's basically the same gameplay, it's just a new logo with some "new" units. Now if PR wants to be canon, black sun would use largely the same units as the other factions. Having a threeway struggle sounds good, but lacking politics it's just shoot this color, shoot that color. Besides having an underground criminal organisation trying to conquer the galaxy is just illogical. Personally I think it would be better to enjoy two well built sides with different gameplays, than having three sides to play the same (sometimes boring) game. This is of course about GC.

[a.fake.name]

Can we just ask you right now to scrap the black sun faction ?

Cause it's the same shit as Zahn, just with a different name.

It'd still make more sense to use the Zahn code for the rebellion, put the CSA in the Rebel slot, then leave the Imps where they are now.

The whole yellow fart cloud is just annoying as fuck. It'd make sense for the Rebels, but having criminals get away with fighting a major faction is just ludicrous.

[evilbobthebob]

I understand your concerns but it's not my decision to make. I'll point PR to this thread when he gets around to considering implementation.

[megabalta]

Thank you, as always. In the mean time I've thought a bit about starship complements. I don't really know if it's a new idea, but I did not find any references. I think one way to implement supply lines is to modify starships to transports (like land transports), and separately build fighters/bombers (I've already tried it, and the game recognized the ship as a transport with the red dots, but I could not get any fighters in it, its probably something about <Garrison_Category>Fighter, etc.<Garrison_Category>)

Anyway this method got it's pros and contras.

Pros: if a star destroyer loses it's fighter escort it will be vulnerable to a second wave galactic attack without it, unlike now. If it's cut off, it will get into trouble. Transport ships could get more meaning transporting hyperdriveless fighters/bombers, hyperdrive capable fighters/bombers will actually worth more (this feature I'm not sure of how to do). Fighter researches and lvl1 shipyards would also get more importance this way. Landing units could get stored this way in capital ships which is canon and logical. You deploy what you want, when you want. To this mod I would suggest to improve damage on proton torpedos (and maybe reconsider hardpoints, I've seen no excess damage loss in group steiner's mods) to make bombers worth more. Usable tiefighter heroes. To sum up: I know everybody loves big ships, but you have to think more about those beez too (xwingfans yaaay).

Contras: you have to manually build fighters/bombers (money, time, no more free unit replacements for losing 500 fighters... which is a pro imho), battle starts with a bunch of fighters flying around, and you have to manually deal them to carriers which is a bugger (but I actually always do this in land battles with ATATs and stormies so it would not bother me), and additional problems with deploying and retreating hyperdriveless ships.

Now two crucial weakpoints in this concept could be: is it possible to make hyperdriveless ships to move only with hyperdrived carriers, and is it possible to link the max number of hyperdriveless ships to hyperdrived ships in a fleet (so players could not carry 500 fighters with one ISD)? 

Edited by megabalta, 13 January 2014 - 02:38 AM.

[Kitkun]

There's no clean way to make ship complements separate, unfortunately. If your set fighters able to be 'transported' in the GC screen, then the engine allows an unlimited amount to go with any ship with a hyperdrive. I.E. TIE Fighters scurrying around with a TIE Defender.

 

Unless there's some major AI overhaul, I'd be hesitant to add Black Sun as a major faction. I could see them as a kind 'minor' faction like CSA was intended to be. But then you have the problems of unit type proliferation causing lag again.