40 replies to this topic

[Iforgot]

How's it going? I just wanted to throw in a couple ideas and questions. Heh, pretty much i'd like to see a RebellionV2.0 plus a couple features.  I was wondering does this mod make much use of the corruption feature? To be honest i never played a Zann campaign so I'm not too familiar with it but I was wondering if it could be modified and used to simulate other things. Could it simulate a rebel insurgency on planets that might have supporters but are not formerly part of the Alliance? Rename the defillers or what ever they call them to "rabble rousers" or something. Or perhaps it could simulate the business influence of the CSA. One feature I really miss was the killable and defecting characters and the ability to name the ships from rebellion, i have already read how it is basically not possible, a shame. Had a couple of ships named for dead rebel heroes back in the day... The other thing I'd like to see someday would be the ability to capture ships. i thought I had read elsewhere that people were working on something like that but i'd think that surely if it was possible someone would have done that by now with how important it is to the alliance. Anyhow if anyone has any thoughts on that stuff then please discuss and stuff...

[megabalta]

It's been suggested to convert Rebel faction to the expansion faction, thus giving it corruption options - replace the defiler with rebel specops, infiltrator or spy, and rename the corruption ability to spy network or something like that, sabotage, buying things on the black market, attacking less defended backwater imperial planets via bribe ability etc. It makes perfect sense for an underground rebel organization and could compensate for the lack of huge armies/navy. I'm really in support of the idea, since it would differentiate the two main factions gameplay, which would renew my interest in the game.

However as far as I know the teams hands are full with other stuff right now, but I hope eventually they'll do it in a later version. I'm kind of contra CSA/pirates/hutt faction, since I don't find them very interesting.

I've read they made boarding craft in Alliance mod, but I haven't actually seen it in the mod.

Edited by megabalta, 24 July 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[johnchm.10]

I inquired about capturing ships, and iirc, while it could be done, there wouldn't be much of a point, since you couldn't keep the ships without some additional coding. enough that it would be easier and less time consuming to have the enemy team's ships be buildable by your team, and while the case could be made for that in certain cases (namely the ISD 1/2, VSD 1/2, and Dom-3), overall, that route would take away from the identity of the factions. 

 

in certain campaigns, it could be a progression-based objective to get certain heroes where you have to defeat X enemy at Y location, take Y location, and have X enemy be buildable for your side. an example of this would be: defeat Baron Fel at Brentaal (it was either here or Ciutric. forgot which one) to recruit Baron Fel for the Alliance. or something similar to that nature, but overall, it too would have to be handled on a case by case basis, if i understand the issue correctly.

[Iforgot]

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. That was sort of going to be my other suggestion, to award at least famous examples of captured ships. For a hypothetical example  some event triggers receiving Red squadron and also a class-II frigate Rand Eliptic since Darklighter and Klivian and others from that ship seem to be some of the main ones forming Red Squadron. Or say if you defeat the ISD Accuser (I think was the right one) then you have a chance to get the ISD Emancipator. With the corruption, is it specifically faction-based or can it be given to other factions too? Perhaps having different versions of the benefits and risks from it?

The other Idea the comes to mind is having persistent damage to ships and stations that needs to be repaired. I had read that this was to be in the expansion but then was not added. Again I had kind of figured that if this was something that could be done it would have been by now....

[johnchm.10]

It's been suggested to convert Rebel faction to the expansion faction, thus giving it corruption options - replace the defiler with rebel specops, infiltrator or spy, and rename the corruption ability to spy network or something like that, sabotage, buying things on the black market, attacking less defended backwater imperial planets via bribe ability etc. It makes perfect sense for an underground rebel organization and could compensate for the lack of huge armies/navy. I'm really in support of the idea, since it would differentiate the two main factions gameplay, which would renew my interest in the game.

However as far as I know the teams hands are full with other stuff right now, but I hope eventually they'll do it in a later version. I'm kind of contra CSA/pirates/hutt faction, since I don't find them very interesting.

I've read they made boarding craft in Alliance mod, but I haven't actually seen it in the mod.

see, 1 thing i wouldn't be sure about with that would be the assassination. to the best of my knowledge, the Alliance and New Republic never used it or if they did, it was a one off and i don't remember it. if the Alliance does eventually get the abilities of the Zann, can it please not look like a cloud of mustard gas?

 

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. That was sort of going to be my other suggestion, to award at least famous examples of captured ships. For a hypothetical example  some event triggers receiving Red squadron and also a class-II frigate Rand Eliptic since Darklighter and Klivian and others from that ship seem to be some of the main ones forming Red Squadron. Or say if you defeat the ISD Accuser (I think was the right one) then you have a chance to get the ISD Emancipator. With the corruption, is it specifically faction-based or can it be given to other factions too? Perhaps having different versions of the benefits and risks from it?

The other Idea the comes to mind is having persistent damage to ships and stations that needs to be repaired. I had read that this was to be in the expansion but then was not added. Again I had kind of figured that if this was something that could be done it would have been by now....

the Emancipator is under the control of Lando as his final upgrade. Wedge should get the Liberator, sister modification to the Emancipator, but that one is up to the Team. aside from that, i think a bunch of Hero Ships are Former Imperial Ships. New Hope, Rebel Dream, Liberator, Emancipator, Lusankya, technically, the Peregrine, Moonshadow, potentially one of the Dominators used by either Tycho or Bel Iblis, all of them are former Imperial Ships

 

i guess in theory, it could be done, but i believe it would take a lot of work.

how i think it would work:

ships that are undamaged or lightly damaged are ignored by this

ships that are heavily damaged 'turn into' new(read crappy) "Hero" variants of their ships, with significantly reduced stats, with say, half the fighter compliment they would normally have, but the fighters are the previous variant. so BTL-S3 Y-wings would become -A4 Y-wings, and the only way to bring them back up to spec would be to bring the ship to a nearby shipyard that can support that ship (I.e. if its a Nebulon-B, bring it to a planet with 1 or more level-3 yards), OR perhaps to give the Modular Taskforce Cruiser and the Hajen-class Fleet Tender a new ability. where they become essentially mobile shipyards, except they can only make the repairs instead of actually building ships, and bring them to the damaged ship(s).

the main advantage of this is that if a ship were to be only severely damaged instead of destroyed, you would save time and money simply by making the repairs needed to get the ship up to full strength.

again, its just a thought, and I'm not even sure if its even possible.

Edited by johnchm.10, 25 July 2014 - 02:55 AM.

[megabalta]

I think there was a discussion about it: please consider that in the new version there are no hero ships besides fighters/bombers. It is so to avoid 0 pop hero ships flooding a battle. So upgraded heroes do not get ships. It has its bad sides of course, named special ships gone, all shipsticky heroes on one flagship in a battle, but I can tell you that much: I actually like it, it works fine.

I don't think worn down ships are possible, everything happening in a space battle -besides winner/looser, destroyed ships/stations, getting/spending some money- stays in the battle, galaxy map does not care.

Assassination is fine by me for the rebels, specforce infiltrators and specops agents do it all the time.

As far as I know there could be only one expansion faction (with corruption thingies). However CSA could use slicing, which is great for a company.

If decided to convert rebel faction to expansion faction, I'll gladly do the graphical conversion. No more mustard, no more red cybordevilman.

[johnchm.10]

I find your lack of Hero Ships disturbing.
In that case, I'm going to look into being able to build captured Imperial ships at rebel shipyards. Namely the ISD 1/2, VSD 1/2, and DOM 3.
1. To your knowledge, are the rebel variants going to remain intact in the xml files for 1.3?
2. How much work would it take to bring those ships to the level 5 rebel yard

[megabalta]

The game does not recognize changes to the pop value of hero transports, and ISDs or an executor for 0 pop are making the game very inbalanced.

1. I'm not sure I understand correctly, but as far as I know all nonsnubcraft hero ship data is deleted from the hero files.

2. About 5 minutes per ship, since they would be variants of an existing type.

[Iforgot]

Would there be a way to tie the construction of "captured " ships to a condition? Something like maybe for each imperial world captured you get one "captured ship point" and so many points would be required to unlock building a ship, just spit balling here.

 

I have no problem with assassination, use to do it in Rebellion all the time, and I know I've seen mods that removed the yellow cloud stuff.

Thanks for discussing these questions, one more jut occurred to me, its been a long time since I got into a EAW campaign but it always seems that to capture a planet you must destroy all the facilities(in this mod Including Space Colonies i guess too!) on it. Makes it less interesting to go after kuat if after I win it has zero shipyards. I suppose that that's what some of the planets bonuses are all about though

[johnchm.10]

The game does not recognize changes to the pop value of hero transports, and ISDs or an executor for 0 pop are making the game very inbalanced.
1. I'm not sure I understand correctly, but as far as I know all nonsnubcraft hero ship data is deleted from the hero files.
2. About 5 minutes per ship, since they would be variants of an existing type.

Allow me to rephrase.
Is the R_Imperial_II_class_Star_Destroyer variant still in the new xml files?
And if it isn't, how much would it take to bring it forward from 1.2 to 1.3? I assume that some values might need to be changed, but to what extent?

[megabalta]

Just checked it, the data is present in the new version too.

[johnchm.10]

 

but yeah, i'm assuming that a simple copy/paste of the Imp-4 yard buildables to the rebel 5 yard buildables would work, so long as the unit exists?

Edited by johnchm.10, 25 July 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[megabalta]

Probably.

[Aizen Teppa]

The game does not recognize changes to the pop value of hero transports, and ISDs or an executor for 0 pop are making the game very inbalanced.

 

I'm with johnchm on this one. Very disturbing. Hero-ISDs are not really that big issue, even irrelevant. Usually such ships are scattered across galaxy and stacking heroes is not really possible until (very) late in the game. I know I rarely have a chance to do this. In 95% of cases game is crapping out long before I reach that stage. Thrawn&Vader Executors are not problem - both require humongous investment. If you spend big, you usually expect big results right? Sovereign is way too overpowered with it super-laser. It needs serious nerf in recharge (I using now 90 or 120 seconds recharge, don't remember)

 

And after pain of early development why can't player reap some (like I said - rarely using heroes in battle) benefits of heroes later? Canon, canon, canon - really? Because without hero ships "canon" is as empty word as vacuum of space.

 

It reminds me a bit of question on Matrix forum. How historical is War in the East? It is historical in round 0 before players first move, after that it's total fiction.

Edited by Aizen Teppa, 26 July 2014 - 06:58 AM.

[a.fake.name]

Hero ISDs are not the issue, it's no worse than some of the other exploits the current balance present.
In fact, I'd be in favor of adding more hero ships as the method of adding those uniques like rebel ISDs.

Do it right (and add to the infocard what cap ship a hero upgrades to) and it could allow the rebels to build a small ISD fleet.

If there is a way to only build one (or limited number) of a ship without it being a hero, that would also be a suitable way for the rebels to get early heavy warships.

That, or would it be possible to give the rebels the corruption ability, and allow them to (for a heavy cash amount) steal one ISD at a time from a world with a level 4/5 station.

Edited by a.fake.name, 27 July 2014 - 12:42 AM.

[johnchm.10]

what about changing the population cost of the Heroes themselves, and not their transports? would this be possible/doable? 

Edited by johnchm.10, 27 July 2014 - 02:02 AM.

[a.fake.name]

Pretty sure that's the first thing they tried.

[Aizen Teppa]

OK I don't really see the problem with hero ship. Hero-Executors price is prohibitive as it is, but it could be even higher (with some extra toys for ships). I can live with that. 

 

As for creating "Zann Alliance of the Rebellion" and giving Rebels underworld tricks - I'm strongly against. Whole point of Empire v Rebel is very different approach of doing things. Last thing Rebel side needs is massive boost for Rebel side. Alliance is already the easier side IMHO. And in 1.3 will be even more 'on top' as most changes to pops will hurt Empire much more than Rebels. In 1.2 Rebel-human player can't possibly have problems with smashing the Empire. 

 

Stealing ISD/VSDs/perhaps even Preators, give me a break. Why not give them Imperial shipyard lvl 4/5 from the start? Then we'll have New-Order-Empire vs New-Republic-Empire-in-progress competition.  Some formerly imperial warships as rebel hero ships but only that and nothing more. It's hardly possible to justify e.g. Lusankya on Rebel side when Palpatine,Vader, Isard are alive, Coruscant is impregnable fortress deep inside Empire space, and when 3/4 of the galaxy is under imperial rule. Need some special script coding to obtain "building permission" for each ship.

[a.fake.name]

Agreed, many of the hero ships are nice, but buildable at weird times.

It should be handled campaign by campaign

[megabalta]

If rebel faction is to be changed to exp faction it's obviously a full gameplay change not just giving the current rebel gameplay extra abilities.

I don't really understand why you want to build ISDs on the rebel side, if I remember correctly PR campaigns are set between 20 years before the movies to some years later. For me ISDs are the very representation of the empire, plus rebels have the republicSD later on. I'm not so much into various books canonity, so all I could think of maybe 1-2 defected SDs. Stealing destroyers would take thousands of man (and killing thousands of man on board), plus the game does not have any mechanic for that.

However I could think of a solution for a special case: if rebels would be the exp faction, you could "buy" a SD on the black market.

Hero pop values and hero transport pop values are the same if I remember correctly, they are all 0, even if changed.

It's not my position to defend the PR teams decision to remove hero ships, all I can say first I was very much against it, just as you now, but having played the new version, I can say I don't miss them anymore.