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Questions about infantry


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#1 Indigo

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 07:39 PM

Sam, they won't be built in squads, right? I still prefer the old single building of infantry units. And will there be a command available to deploy them into prone position?

#2 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 04:41 PM

No, they will not be built in squads.

Some of them might/will deploy :)

#3 T34 Sam

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 04:58 PM

listen 2 gilbear - im really a gfxs 4 this purpose

about the expansion thing - total victory is 4 ss2 yet total challenge is 4 blitzkrieg and i do intend 2 get it - so long as its in my local shop - and i will get it as it includes other things that interests me as well (inc possibility of blitz 2 ra2 vehicle conversions - mayb not helpful 2 u yet can still b VERY useful 4 me :) )

#4 Indigo

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 12:58 PM

No, they will not be built in squads.

Some of them might/will deploy  :sleep:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some of them might/will deploy


I mean, with a specific command button, right? Not just like when you're attacked while moving, the infantry will automatically crawl out of it.

I have some ideas about this, when an infantry is in prone position, he will be granted with:

1. defensive bonus and will be less susceptible to any attacks.

2. a little bit of stealth ability but will be revealed within the range of attack of all enemy units. This ability goes to all infantry units except for the sniper, who will have better stealth ability and only the infantry and light vehicles will reveal the sniper within their range of attack.

3. more accurate with longer range but a bit slower with the rate of fire (and when infantry is in standing position, he will be less accurate but with less range but faster rate of fire compared to prone position). This goes for all infantry, rifle, smg, mg and anti-tank.

Lastly, I'd love to see the mortar, heavy machine gun and anti-tank consist of two infantry in one unit. I mean, they're two infantry but you select and control them as one, is this possible for RA2/YR?

#5 Andre27

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 01:13 PM

No, they will not be built in squads.

Some of them might/will deploy  :sleep:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some of them might/will deploy


I mean, with a specific command button, right? Not just like when you're attacked while moving, the infantry will automatically crawl out of it.

I have some ideas about this, when an infantry is in prone position, he will be granted with:

1. defensive bonus and will be less susceptible to any attacks.

2. a little bit of stealth ability but will be revealed within the range of attack of all enemy units. This ability goes to all infantry units except for the sniper, who will have better stealth ability and only the infantry and light vehicles will reveal the sniper within their range of attack.

3. more accurate with longer range but a bit slower with the rate of fire (and when infantry is in standing position, he will be less accurate but with less range but faster rate of fire compared to prone position). This goes for all infantry, rifle, smg, mg and anti-tank.

Lastly, I'd love to see the mortar, heavy machine gun and anti-tank consist of two infantry in one unit. I mean, they're two infantry but you select and control them as one, is this possible for RA2/YR?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes

1. Standard in Ra2/YR
2. A "bit" stealth isn't possible, a full cloak or non at all.
3. Possible

Yes.

This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Andre 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.


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#6 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:22 PM

I mean, with a specific command button, right?  Not just like when you're attacked while moving, the infantry will automatically crawl out of it.


That is what "deploy" means. It should not be confused with being pinned (when inf are fired at, they "duck"). Weapons can be coded to be less/more effective than normal against pinned units.

As for the Deployed abilities:

1. defensive bonus and will be less susceptible to any attacks.


Not possible AFAIK; deployed troops use the same stats as their undeployed counterparts, and only lose mobility at the gain of a different (usually better) weapon. Only deployed vehicles can benefit from this, as they "turn into" structures for this purpose. However, the AI is only able to deploy infantry and MCVs.

2. a little bit of stealth ability but will be revealed within the range of attack of all enemy units.  This ability goes to all infantry units except for the sniper, who will have better stealth ability and only the infantry and light vehicles will reveal the sniper within their range of attack.


Not possible. As a rule, if it is done in RA2/YR, it is possible. If not, it isn't. "New" features are usually work-arounds based on the existing logic, or leftover code from TS that has been reactivated (for example, Gates).

3. more accurate with longer range but a bit slower with the rate of fire (and when infantry is in standing position, he will be less accurate but with less range but faster rate of fire compared to prone position).  This goes for all infantry, rifle, smg, mg and anti-tank.


Personally, I like this idea, even though it is rather less than original. It isn't always appropriate for all troops though; SMGs are not intended to be fired from a prone position, and are regared as "Trench-brooms" in this aspect.
The biggest problem with this idea is that there needs to be a substantial gain for going prone and losing mobility, or it simply isn't worth the trouble. Such a gain would in turn encourage turtling, something we are keen not to do. Nonetheless, a limited selection of troops will be allowed to deploy, mostly for variety's sake.

Lastly, I'd love to see the mortar, heavy machine gun and anti-tank consist of two infantry in one unit.  I mean, they're two infantry but you select and control them as one, is this possible for RA2/YR?


Possible, I suppose so. Were it to work as you imagine, I'd love it it if all troops could work in a similar manner.
Unfortuantely, it will look a bit odd when closely packed troops overlap. Furthermore, such GFX would have issues regarding certain damaged status.

#7 Andre27

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:52 PM

Not possible AFAIK; deployed troops use the same stats as their undeployed counterparts, and only lose mobility at the gain of a different (usually better) weapon. Only deployed vehicles can benefit from this, as they "turn into" structures for this purpose. However, the AI is only able to deploy infantry and MCVs.


AFAIK this feature is standard in the warhead of the weapons. Pronedamage etc.



///Edit, sorry, I didn't mean to edit, only to reply. Clicked wrong button :sleep: ///

Edited by Major_Gilbear, 06 August 2004 - 08:00 PM.

This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Andre 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.


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- The mathemathical probability of God existing is 67% -

"We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile."

#8 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 08:00 PM

Not possible AFAIK; deployed troops use the same stats as their undeployed counterparts, and only lose mobility at the gain of a different (usually better) weapon. Only deployed vehicles can benefit from this, as they "turn into" structures for this purpose. However, the AI is only able to deploy infantry and MCVs.


AFAIK this feature is standard in the warhead of the weapons. Pronedamage etc.


Yes, but prone isn't deployed, and thus deployed infantry don't benefit IIRC :sleep:

#9 Indigo

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 12:58 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. ;)

Ok, sorry for pestering you guys again :p , but how about this...I have a deployed rifleman, he is fully cloaked from tanks, light vehicles and aircrafts, but will be revealed from ALL enemy units with the presence of an enemy infantry within its range of attack.

Not the line of sight, but the range of attack, so when an enemy infantry passes by my deployed rifleman within each other's range of attack, the deployed rifleman will be revealed, automatically fire on each other, and be revealed from enemy tanks, light vehicles and aircrafts as well.

So even if there's enemy infantry, but not within the range of each other's attack, the deployed rifleman will not be revealed unless he stands up or force-fires when deployed.

So how about this, hot or not? ;)

And I must say that this ability shouldn't be available for all units. It would give more justice if this will be implemented for certain special units like commandos, SS, etc...

Edited by Indigo, 07 August 2004 - 01:01 PM.


#10 Mig Eater

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 01:37 PM

You can not make an infantry cloak only when deployed, he has to be cloaked all the time etc...

Edited by Mig Eater, 07 August 2004 - 01:38 PM.


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#11 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 01:54 PM

I don't see the point in all this complicated whatnot Indigo:
If they deploy, they get a longer range, maybe better accuracy.
Some will be required to deploy to use their weapon at all (eg: Mortars).
A few troops will get a different weapon instead of a "bonus" to their existing weapon.

Really, all this other crap about stealth and prone-ness etc is a bit irrelevant (no offence) and quite undo-able.

Most of what is possible has to be in RA2/YR, and possibly some of the TS stuff can be revived from leftover code. Being stealthed only when deployed, special damage for different deploy states, etc simply isn't possible.

Sorry ;)

#12 DaEm0NuL

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:33 PM

Anyways the point of infantry being stealth ? Na ! Better viewble and destroyble this way !

#13 Indigo

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 01:46 AM

Ooopsies, I apologize guys. ;)

Ok, forget about the stealth stuff. ;)

Just want to speak out what I have in mind for infantry units, it's because I'm quite fond of using them. Anyway, thanks for hearing me out guys. ;)

So, anything we need to know more about infantry units, lists, abilities, upgrades or some more stuffs? :p

Edited by Indigo, 08 August 2004 - 02:01 AM.


#14 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 02:44 PM

Yes, but not now; that is why I locked the infantry thread - we're still fine-tunig the list.

#15 Rattuskid

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 04:09 AM

...the AI is only able to deploy infantry and MCVs.


Seige choppers, slave miners... (I know that later is a special case, but TS used tons of this logic, so there must be an ai workaround.)

Lastly, I'd love to see the mortar, heavy machine gun and anti-tank consist of two infantry in one unit.  I mean, they're two infantry but you select and control them as one, is this possible for RA2/YR?


Possible, I suppose so. Were it to work as you imagine, I'd love it it if all troops could work in a similar manner.
Unfortuantely, it will look a bit odd when closely packed troops overlap. Furthermore, such GFX would have issues regarding certain damaged status.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Cyborg=yes and fearless=yes will make sure 'prone' frames are used for damaged state, and it has been used to make a two man team 'lose' a member. However, infantry cannot have three weapons.
Being a total douche.

#16 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 10:20 AM

Seige choppers, slave miners... (I know that later is a special case, but TS used tons of this logic, so there must be an ai workaround.)


Actually, the AI cannot deploy seige choppers. Yes SMs are a special case, like the MCVs.
TS used this logic, but like much TS logic, not all of it works. That which does might not work in the same way.

Cyborg=yes and fearless=yes will make sure 'prone' frames are used for damaged state, and it has been used to make a two man team 'lose' a member. However, infantry cannot have three weapons.


Unfortuantely, it will look a bit odd when closely packed troops overlap. Furthermore, such GFX would have issues regarding certain damaged status.


We know all that, hence my remarks (which I've re-quoted) ;)
For example, one such issue is this: when an infantry unit consisting of two ppl is damaged, one chap could be lost (using Cyborg logic). When the unit is healed, the infantry unit would still show only one chap. However, if he is healed by a hospital, when emerging there will again be two ppl depicted. There are also other issues, including those regarding paradropping.

Finally, nobody said anything about an infantryman having three weapons (although if you consider C4 a weapon, then it is possible! ;) ).

#17 Rattuskid

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 05:47 AM

He stated he wanted to see an infantry with 'mortar, heavy machine gun and anti-tank consist of two infantry in one unit. '

Well, I didn't know about the hospital cyborg thing. I really also know that you guys have a better idea for your own infantry than asnything we can muster, so go on to make a great mod. ;)
Being a total douche.

#18 Indigo

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 07:30 AM

He stated he wanted to see an infantry with 'mortar, heavy machine gun and anti-tank consist of two infantry in one unit. '


one gunner + one loader + each with different animations = kick-ass infantry! ;)

Might be impossible, but impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it...nah, just kidding guys. ;)

But like Rattuskid stated, you guys have far more better ideas than we can think of, and I personally trust you guys will have another those features that'll knock us off our feets! So yes, go ahead and make D-Day the best! ;)

#19 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 11:02 AM

He stated he wanted to see an infantry with 'mortar, heavy machine gun and anti-tank consist of two infantry in one unit. '


Lol, I think Indigo meant that each Mortar, HMG and AT unit should consist of two infantry (graphically speaking) ;) .




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