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Posted 21 August 2010 - 04:42 AM

the A.I. also tends to try and lure your fighters away from your big ships, before a concentrated assault by all of the faster ships.
but like stormhawk said, all of the fighters never come at once. if you stick with the right tactics, you can take almost any planet from pirates without losing a single ship, or just a few ships compared to teh many many ships the a.i. lost.
If you just jump into a planet with space stations, pull your ships into formation and sit there, it takes almost ten minutes for the a.i. to attack.
I never bother with avengers or defenders. I always upgrade one kind of transport to full and use it.

Stormhawk

Posted 21 August 2010 - 12:41 AM

About the fighters, I agree that 1 on 1, Avengers can easily defeat Z-95's. The problem is, the Avenger is far more expensive. Losing such advanced fighters to missiles when, say, E-wings or X-wings would only have taken minor damage is frustrating. As Empire, I hardly ever invest in upgrading the Avenger or Defender because Gammas or Deltas are much safer investments.

Even with flares?


I don't know if anyone else is having this problem, but the autofire for flares does not seem to work the way it does with point-defense. The flare does not automatically activate when concussion missiles are fired at my Avengers and Defenders, so I have to constantly be microing my TIE's and activating flares when under attack, which is unrealistic in fleet engagements when I have about a hundred other things to worry about.

Also, haven't tried the Y-Wing idea. Sounds like a good idea. I didn't think of using turreted bombers. Perhaps bombers are useful for something other than torpedoing capitals. :thumbsupsmiley:

Back on the original subject of this thread, I find that the a.i. almost never uses concentrated fire or coordinated attack. Their ships come in waves arranged by flight speed. I've found that putting up a wall of Dreadnoughts and then waiting for the computer to attack works very well, crushing every wave separately as they come. I've won plenty of battles that I shouldn't have because the computer attacked me 10 to 15 squadrons at a time when they had over 80 squadrons at their disposal.

Phoenix Rising

Posted 20 August 2010 - 09:17 PM

As for the AI, Ive noticed that in the longer battles, they bring reinforcements into the area they originally hyperspaced into. So if the AI started in the upper right hand corner, they always bring reinforcements in there. It makes it really easy for defense, mainly because you just have to sit there and pick off ships one at a time. The AI doesn't gather strength, it just send ships in one at a time. Don't know if that is fixable, but it's just an observation I've made. :thumbsupsmiley:

It should be.

The thing is, I've only been able to use fighters and bombers effectively on strafing runs. In a dogfights, their fixed forward mounted weaponry simply cannot match the swiveled and turreted weaponry on the transports.

The accuracy values are due for an overhaul. I can make it so that turreted guns miss more often than they do now.

About the fighters, I agree that 1 on 1, Avengers can easily defeat Z-95's. The problem is, the Avenger is far more expensive. Losing such advanced fighters to missiles when, say, E-wings or X-wings would only have taken minor damage is frustrating. As Empire, I hardly ever invest in upgrading the Avenger or Defender because Gammas or Deltas are much safer investments.

Even with flares?

Maybe this is just my experience but high level y-wings can actually be fairly effective against transports, even more so when paired with other fighters (namely x&a wings).

They are indeed. Y-wings and something like DX-9s are a pretty nasty combo against some of the tougher transports.

Casen

Posted 20 August 2010 - 12:25 PM

Something that's quite underrated is fully upgraded TIE Bombers. From a standoff distance, they can be used to destroy fighter swarms with concussion missiles.

Tropical Bob

Posted 20 August 2010 - 05:21 AM

To me, it seems like anything with concussion missiles fare relatively well against Transports.

SpardaSon21

Posted 20 August 2010 - 05:07 AM

Upgraded K-Wings are really nasty since they have some turreted weapons (including a light slugthrower turret), and a fair number of missile weapons and unlike transports come in full squadrons of twelve. They can also trigger their SLAM's if they have a need for speed.

skie9173

Posted 20 August 2010 - 04:37 AM

Maybe this is just my experience but high level y-wings can actually be fairly effective against transports, even more so when paired with other fighters (namely x&a wings). Fly the Y-wings in first and let the turreted ions chew through shields, then mess up the transports engines, they become big sitting ducks. Sending in high level Y-wings first can be a somewhat effective strategy thanks to those turrets and their heavy shield/hulls. Make them fly straight threw the fighter screen rather than dogfighting. X-wings come in and pop go the Ties. Just a little microing against the transports to keep your fighter behind them for the most part works fairly well too, you'll take damage sure but you'll take them down too, at least eventually.

Dodonna and dreadnought hyperspace surprises are still the most efficent way to fight them though i think

Zeta1127

Posted 20 August 2010 - 04:29 AM

I upgrade Avengers and Defenders, because I can micro them very well. The key to dogfights is going on the offensive when you have concussion missiles, you can take them out before they take you out. Transports are good, but concussion missiles are also a good option for dealing with them, if you can get enough firing at once.

Stormhawk

Posted 20 August 2010 - 03:40 AM

One thing about the transports, I think they are so powerful that fighters and most bombers become obsolete. A group of powerful transports has almost as much firepower and way more survivability than a squadron of fighter-bombers. More specifically, I am always hesitant to use advanced TIE models (Avenger, Defender) because of their abysmal hull strength. I've seen squadrons of the things torn apart by A-wings or Z-95's just because I didn't activate flare quickly enough. Delta transports have almost as much bombing power and much more hull strength than the Defender, not to mention lower cost. The only advantage the Defender has is it's speed, which can be compensated for with careful maneuvering. The only role that I don't think transports can fill well is that of heavy bomber. I can't think of a replacement for the K-wing or the Scimitar, but transports can provide fighter cover and can fill the role of strike fighter in fleet engagements.

My end conclusion is that I think that either fighters should receive some counter to concussion missiles (30% dodge chance, perhaps) or capital ships should have increased accuracy against transports with turbolasers because at this point, it seems as it lasers and missiles do not do enough damage to take them down quickly and turbolasers are simply too inaccurate.


I don't see the fascination with transports. I mean no offense, but whatever makes them so awesome must of flown clear over my head. With the Empire I take Avengers to max and Nova Wings to max, and they do most of the work. As for Rebellion/NR, I go 1/2 E-Wings 1/2 A-Wings and upgrade them to full for fighters, and then upgrade K-Wings for bombers. Then again, I've never really played against an opponent who enjoys transport spam. ;)

As for TIE's lacking hull strength. That's kind of the point. The Empire wanted cheap and easy to mass produce fighters. As for Avengers or Defenders sucking vacuum as a result of A-Wings or Z-95's, I have no idea how that would work. Avengers have a very nice missile compliment, and when fully upgraded are very hard to match. Avengers should be able to fly circles around Defenders. Always bring more fighter squadrons then you need. Its called a fighter screen for a reason.

As for countering transports, I recommend upgrading the Lancer frigate and fighter squadrons with missile compliments. Lancers are nasty to transports, the only downside being that they won't live long against full salvos.

What range are your capital ships engaging the transports? Turbos tend to make atoms out of anything that size that gets relatively close.

I'm not trying to start anything or insult in anyway. Just trying to get a feel for the situation. I'm not Thrawn, I can't find stuff out from art. :p


The thing is, I've only been able to use fighters and bombers effectively on strafing runs. In a dogfights, their fixed forward mounted weaponry simply cannot match the swiveled and turreted weaponry on the transports. Ive found that I can just match Barloz's or Skiprays 1 on 1 with fighters and always emerge victorious because if the stay and dogfight you, you win, and if they run, you get free volleys of missiles on them. Transports can really only be killed by concentrated cap ship fire from close range, and good micro (see Tropical Bob's post) can avoid that, since compared to transports, frigates and cruisers are slower then sleepy Hutts.

About the fighters, I agree that 1 on 1, Avengers can easily defeat Z-95's. The problem is, the Avenger is far more expensive. Losing such advanced fighters to missiles when, say, E-wings or X-wings would only have taken minor damage is frustrating. As Empire, I hardly ever invest in upgrading the Avenger or Defender because Gammas or Deltas are much safer investments.

McDman

Posted 20 August 2010 - 02:49 AM

That and keeping your big ships in formation. any transport gets cut to pieces in all that crossfire.



Watch that crossfire boys! :p

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