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Replying to GC Landing Troops


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Phoenix Rising

Posted 26 October 2011 - 03:33 AM

You know, PR really nailed canon.

Much appreciated. I think there are a few kinks to work out in the upgrades (some already have been for v1.2), but I'm generally happy with the progression.

The Avenger and Defender don't really compete well against each other.

A lot of that has to do with our having to set warhead loads. Arm both with concussion missiles and it's a little different.

(Frigates are really in one of the worst positions in the game. Big enough to get hit by large weapons, small enough to have weak hull/shields.)

I agree. I don't think we're quite done making major mechanic shifts in space just yet.

Is this changed for Eclipse and Executor class ships as well?

No, battleships only. Those are now exclusively dreadnaught class.

Usually the AI doesn't upgrade

It does now :twisted:.

Tropical Bob

Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:38 AM

That's it in a nutshell, though if I'm going to micro, I'll just use the Acclamators. heavier hull/shields, and the quad turbos put out enough flak to apply an old machine gunner's term: Accuracy by volume. Makes me chuckle to watch two of them flank a big dogfight and just rake the area, watch little explosions start cookin off all over. :D And after that, just roll right up nose to nose with whatever you want vaporized and let em do their thing. Work VERY well on space stations, and a pair can even overwhelm an early ISD. But it only works if you can distract the ISD BEFORE the Acclamators get in range. If she has the full run to pound on em, you may still get her, but one Acclamator is definately dead, and the other is gonna be in a world of hurt.

Eh. Acclamators are very disposable. Which is why I use my completely straightforward personal technique of the 'Acclamator Dive' (There's also the 'Victory Dive' alternative, which also have a heavy hull impact as well as better general weaponry). You really just send a few of them face-first into whatever your opponent has. The heavy launchers on those will quickly wear almost anything down. And 1-2 Acclamators lost is well worth an Imperial in my opinion.

Though, I'm not sure how equal tech fares with them. Usually the AI doesn't upgrade, so it's usually Acclamator IVs versus Imperial Is or IIs.

often times heavy fighter-bombers can just turn their launchers on the Lancer and turn the tables real quick.

I think that's more of an issue with the range on the Lancer. I almost want to say that, since it's such a vulnerable little frigate, it might need a larger zoning radius with its quad lasers.

Ghostrider

Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:23 AM

Just so you know, expect a few more lightshows In V1.2

I've been testing Core Worlds, and forget research. You need to build up military fast - the AI almost wiped me out on Corulag and Coruscant with some serious fleets. Boy am I glad I built Planetary Cannon and Golan II's.

And yes - 5 dreadnaughts makes for good long punching power - you're gonna need it! And don't forget the Carracks - for little frigates they have a long range - so you can keep them away from the big hitters. A few Carracks add nicely to the fire-sack.

You will also find that ships are a lot more mobile in V1.2 - giving you options to blitz areas, and even the sluggish Mark I Dreadnaughts can rumble into a firefight and add those precious quads for point blank punch.

Save the resarch unitl you have some safe planets that can't be invaded.

Ghost

sevrun

Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:06 AM

You know, PR really nailed canon. From the standpoint of this mod, it's easy to see why factions used most of the ships they do.

My tip: Upgrade the ISDs. They become awesomely tough and versatile. Like a miniature fleet in and of itself. There's a reason they stay in service for decades and the Empire built 25,000 of them. This is the ship I rely on and few planets can stand one or two of these in 1.1.

Dreadnaughts are a bit weak in ship to ship combat, but few other ships that size have heavy turbos, so it's often got an advantage in range. It's also extremely well-protected against fighters and bombers. Also, it's slow, so if it gets in trouble it's probably not coming back.

The Avenger and Defender don't really compete well against each other. The former is a mid-high-end dedicated anti-fighter platform, while the latter is a very high-end fighter-bomber. The Defender can hold it's own simply because it's so advanced, but pit them against each other and the Avenger will come out on top. The Defender holds the clear advantage against larger ships like the Recusant though. So Avenger for the little stuff, Defenders for the bigger, escorted stuff.

My opinion of them is that they're effective, but just too expensive to leave strikecraft coverage to them. Their also awfully fragile, just like all frigates, and often times heavy fighter-bombers can just turn their launchers on the Lancer and turn the tables real quick. (Frigates are really in one of the worst positions in the game. Big enough to get hit by large weapons, small enough to have weak hull/shields.)
For larger groups, you need small wolfpacks of Lancers to tear through them fast enough, but either way, it requires a lot of micromanagement to use them to their full potential. Don't underestimate the damage output of those quad lasers, either. In a real pinch they can wear down cruisers surprisingly fast as support for your heavy hitters.


That's it in a nutshell, though if I'm going to micro, I'll just use the Acclamators. heavier hull/shields, and the quad turbos put out enough flak to apply an old machine gunner's term: Accuracy by volume. Makes me chuckle to watch two of them flank a big dogfight and just rake the area, watch little explosions start cookin off all over. :D And after that, just roll right up nose to nose with whatever you want vaporized and let em do their thing. Work VERY well on space stations, and a pair can even overwhelm an early ISD. But it only works if you can distract the ISD BEFORE the Acclamators get in range. If she has the full run to pound on em, you may still get her, but one Acclamator is definately dead, and the other is gonna be in a world of hurt.

As far as the fighter cover, Defenders or Avengers seem to work very well with the flare systems to draw off the potentially devastating concussion missiles, and heavy enough shielding to grind down most opposition. You are correct about the cost however. Two wings of either and I could have my pick of light frigates or 4 Bayonets, which I really like for cheap stand-off power. They work surprisingly well in dissuading enemy corvettes from joining the strikecraft dogfights. If you really want a couple wings of them to round out the strikecraft however, you can get one of each deployed from the Super Trans VII Escort carrier. cost about on par with 3 of them and you get an Avenger, Defender, Bomber, and 3 plain ole TIEs. oh, and the ability to repair your other ships mid battle. Now THAT'S a deal.

And Yes, the ISD-4s are just this side of terrifying as far as firepower, they're actually what I was referring to as being able to comfortably take a Praetor 2-1 while the rest of the fleet engages the Praetor's support. I don't know that the Rebels have a ship capable of the same, but will find out. they still don't do so hot if you can get your bombers in on them, but that's what _your_ support craft are for, right? ;)

As you may have noticed, certain ships lend themselves to how I fight, Dreadnaughts/Carracks engage the enemy at long range to soften up fortification and draw the enemy fleet out, with Acclamators waiting to establish rapid dominance in the resulting skirmish. Later in the game, the ships change with ISDs/Strike Cruisers hitting at range (and increasing firepower as the enemy attempts to close range) and Carracks or ATR-6s to nail the coffin shut. But if you really want one absolutely awesome slugging match between your fleet and the AI, choose someplace like Empress Teta or Corellia and raid the planet out from under the AI. When your fleet arrives to clear the skies the enemy fleet will blitz your position. I've done that a couple times when I didn't care about losses (older ships) or just wanted to be able to sit back and watch the light show.

Stormhawk

Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:29 AM

I think we've lowered the population cost for battleships since last version... it seemed high to me too.


Is this changed for Eclipse and Executor class ships as well? I think that reducing their population cost any further would make them severely overpowered. A Soverign escorted by a Star Destroyer, several Lancers and TIE Avengers just seems invincible.

Kitkun

Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:17 AM

You know, PR really nailed canon. From the standpoint of this mod, it's easy to see why factions used most of the ships they do.

My tip: Upgrade the ISDs. They become awesomely tough and versatile. Like a miniature fleet in and of itself. There's a reason they stay in service for decades and the Empire built 25,000 of them. This is the ship I rely on and few planets can stand one or two of these in 1.1.

Dreadnaughts are a bit weak in ship to ship combat, but few other ships that size have heavy turbos, so it's often got an advantage in range. It's also extremely well-protected against fighters and bombers. Also, it's slow, so if it gets in trouble it's probably not coming back.

The Avenger and Defender don't really compete well against each other. The former is a mid-high-end dedicated anti-fighter platform, while the latter is a very high-end fighter-bomber. The Defender can hold it's own simply because it's so advanced, but pit them against each other and the Avenger will come out on top. The Defender holds the clear advantage against larger ships like the Recusant though. So Avenger for the little stuff, Defenders for the bigger, escorted stuff.

My opinion of them is that they're effective, but just too expensive to leave strikecraft coverage to them. Their also awfully fragile, just like all frigates, and often times heavy fighter-bombers can just turn their launchers on the Lancer and turn the tables real quick. (Frigates are really in one of the worst positions in the game. Big enough to get hit by large weapons, small enough to have weak hull/shields.)
For larger groups, you need small wolfpacks of Lancers to tear through them fast enough, but either way, it requires a lot of micromanagement to use them to their full potential. Don't underestimate the damage output of those quad lasers, either. In a real pinch they can wear down cruisers surprisingly fast as support for your heavy hitters.

sevrun

Posted 25 October 2011 - 01:57 AM

I think we've lowered the population cost for battleships since last version... it seemed high to me too. The Praetor-class, along with the Dreadnaught, is best in a defensive battle. That said, I'm not pleased with the model.

All we've done with transports is add them to complements. It's a big change for some ships (Imperial +43) and small or no change for others (Liberty +7, Strike +0).



Ok, that's not too dangerous. though you get more than a couple wings of those ATRs and they start acting like pirahna. the 40 cost for a Praetor is two ISDs plus a couple support vessels which are capable of taking down said Praetor. When you measure it like that she's just not worth gettin. Glad to hear that's coming down, may try her out again in 1.2 and see if the lowered cost makes her any more appealing.

Phoenix Rising

Posted 25 October 2011 - 01:42 AM

I think we've lowered the population cost for battleships since last version... it seemed high to me too. The Praetor-class, along with the Dreadnaught, is best in a defensive battle. That said, I'm not pleased with the model.

All we've done with transports is add them to complements. It's a big change for some ships (Imperial +43) and small or no change for others (Liberty +7, Strike +0).

sevrun

Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:44 AM

Well having finally found the time to get good an deep into the Empire tech tree, I still find Dreadnaughts to be some of the best cruisers available for all round utility. Not really sure if I like the Vic 1 or Vic 2 better though. don't care for the Praetor at all, too big, too sluggish, and too much population tied up by deploying it. I'll simply say there are better options. I have however gained a whole new respect for the later generation TIEs and I'm a little worried if they're supposed to be tweaking military transports. The ATR-6 is already a savage cruiser killer. figured the escort carriers would be fluff, and alone, they are. But use them to actually escort an ISD and find the ISD's one weakness (strikecraft) is covered very well. the lancers didn't particularly impress, but that's not really their fault. enemy fighters were swept aside by roughly 30 various TIE wings because I was trying to find a favorite between the Interceptor, Avenger and Defender. Interceptor lost, but I still don't know who won. gotta say that early on, don't sell the Acclamators short as long as they have a clean lane to approach a target at speed... She's easily a match for anything in her weight class in close if she can get there intact. Later she starts to lose ground against the Strike cruisers though. Didn't play with the bombers much, used the transports for that role mostly.

Seen some people complain about the Nebulon B and I really don't understand it. she's beautifully designed for the task she's meant for. Escort the big guns, and keep smaller vessels away while the big boys slug it out. Actually like her more than the Lancer, since she's not completely useless if you've established strike craft superiority, she's still a reliable threat against corvettes, frigates, or even a stray cruiser if she gets a little support.

I'll play around with the rebels next time I get a chance to get some solid time in and see how I like their ships. on their early craft I've already noticed a serious lack of Heavy turbolasers other than the Dreadnaught, so I'll have to rethink some of my tactics a bit. But I want a clear idea of what I'm working with on either side before 1.2 comes out and the AI really starts to fight back :)

Kitkun

Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:09 AM

I think my largest problem with the GCW era is that it's always been portrayed as the monolithic cheesewedges vs mollusks.

Hah. True enough. But as someone with very utilitarian design sensibilities, I appreciate the ISD as beautiful in it's deadliness and intimidation. I pity anything that gets in that forward arc.

The technology development is so much faster during the Galactic Civil War era than it ever was during the Clone Wars era.

It's for good reason at least, as it's much longer and better depicted, and war tends to accelerate technology development.

They're all Kaminoan Fett clones until 12 BBY, when individuals and non-Jango Spaarti clones were allowed to join. Interesting note, there are Stormtrooper clones of both Daine Jir and Nahdonnis Praji out there somewhere in the galaxy by 0 BBY.

Iirc, Battlefront 2 had it that the Fett clones still comprised 'elite' units such as the 501st. (I haven't played that game in half a decade and yet I can pull that right off the top of my head. Isn't that just sad? :crazed:)

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