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#41 Ash

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 03:48 PM

Well there you go then. Say it. "Vassal state." It has a nice ring to it actually.

A pro-US government is basically one the US can, by consequence, lean on to get what it wants. Full military access, permanent postings, discount oil...


It also defeats the entire point of "giving them freedom and democracy" because they are not free to have their own govt the way they want it. Sure, the people might be glad you got rid of Saddam but most aren't happy you're still there.

Edited by Paradox, 06 June 2007 - 03:50 PM.


#42 chemical ali

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 05:33 PM

So what if we invaded Iraq for oil?
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#43 narboza22

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:34 AM

Well there you go then. Say it. "Vassal state." It has a nice ring to it actually.

A pro-US government is basically one the US can, by consequence, lean on to get what it wants. Full military access, permanent postings, discount oil...


It also defeats the entire point of "giving them freedom and democracy" because they are not free to have their own govt the way they want it. Sure, the people might be glad you got rid of Saddam but most aren't happy you're still there.


Is the UK a vassal state because it backs the US, or Australia, or Japan? I fail to see how having a pro US government is worse than having a lunatic dictator run the country.
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#44 CodeCat

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 10:34 AM

Neither are democratic, that's why. Saying 'vote for whichever candidate you want, as long as we can veto him' is not democracy, but it's what the US is doing. If you want to give them a real democracy, you should give them the opportunity to vote for someone who doesn't agree with what you want him to.
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#45 Ash

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 12:16 PM

Is the UK a vassal state because it backs the US, or Australia, or Japan? I fail to see how having a pro US government is worse than having a lunatic dictator run the country.


None of those countries has had their government installed by America.

And I fail to see how having a pro-US government is any better for The Rest of the World that is Not America.

#46 narboza22

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:39 PM

None of those countries has had their government installed by America.


You were the one who said it had to be a pro US government, not installed by the US:

Well there you go then. Say it. "Vassal state." It has a nice ring to it actually.

A pro-US government is basically one the US can, by consequence, lean on to get what it wants. Full military access, permanent postings, discount oil...



And I fail to see how having a pro-US government is any better for The Rest of the World that is Not America.


Much better to have a man in charge who uses poison gas on his own people, or who gets his country buried in sanctions, or uses kids as human shields. :mellow:
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#47 CodeCat

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 11:35 AM

lol, as if this is a two-way decision! You've been blinded too much by the binary politics of your own country. Voting against America doesn't have to mean voting for Saddam.
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#48 Ash

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 01:41 PM

Is the UK a vassal state because it backs the US, or Australia, or Japan?

You were the one who said it had to be a pro US government, not installed by the US:

Well there you go then. Say it. "Vassal state." It has a nice ring to it actually.

A pro-US government is basically one the US can, by consequence, lean on to get what it wants. Full military access, permanent postings, discount oil...


Well, okay then, why not? If you want to take it like that, then yes, I would count the UK, AUS or Japan as vassal states. The UK most definitely. However if your government is installed by America then it is GUARANTEED to be a vassal state in a much more real (and legally-binding) sense than any of the other three. It's entirely possible a future government of any of those countries could adopt a slightly more peaceful (read: Sane) stance and distance themselves from the US. A government installed by the US would essentially not be able to rid itself of the US thumb looming like a great shadow over it without invoking a Third Gulf War.


Much better to have a man in charge who uses poison gas on his own people, or who gets his country buried in sanctions, or uses kids as human shields. :p

He didn't 'get' his country buried in sanctions. The world just decided to sanction him.

And that really brings about the point again. Why didn't you get rid of him the first time around, when it was actually reasonably legitimate to do so?

However Iraq is now/will become just another US pawn.

#49 Hostile

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 12:18 AM

http://technology.gu...1726229,00.html

Read an article like this to to understand how the US does things that other nations do not in order to bring forth more prosperity.

I mean seriously read it.

http://www.taimerica...Man_Plants.html

The data appears to counter some statements made by people here. Foriegn investment and ownership of US manufacturing appears to be increasing rapidly. It does not appear the US is taking over the world. It appears the world is taking over the US.

Nothing wrong with that as long as it remains a liberal democracy. Free from the shackles of politics or religious handcuffs.

Others source...
http://www.ibrc.indi...tional/fdi.html

What about German aquisitions of UK manufactoring?
http://www.eurofound...uk9901172f.html

Seems this is trully a global economy. So don't make silly statements about vassal states. Every head here is on the cutting block.

Imagine if the europeans removed thier heads from thier asses and worked together like the states in the US do. They would economically blow the doors off the rest of the world. Maybe thier 32 hour work week or thier 30 day holidays per year is why they currently aren't.

California is the 5th largest economy in the world and it's only one state of 50 in the US. Imagine if the europeans woke up and had that same kind of relationship with thier neighbors.

Imagine if Japan, S Korea, and Tiawan decided to form a mutual economic package. Another powerhouse move.Throw India in there and then tell me the US is ruling the world. Please...

#50 Ash

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 10:32 AM

So what you're saying is that Iraq invested in US industry.

I think 'investing' is the wrong word, but the other way around is probably more accurate.

#51 Verrückt

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 05:11 PM

So what you're saying is that Iraq invested in US industry.

I think 'investing' is the wrong word, but the other way around is probably more accurate.


I think it would be even more accurate to say that the USA took over IRAQ, what we see now is a Mock government similar to what the Germans had in Vichy France. Difference being the Germans had brains and the people in Iraq, well are entirely lacking one. The Iraqis have to take interest in the USA otherwise they are Fucked sideways.

I mean haven't you guys read about how the Americans are building an über large Embassy over there. But according to the EDA it's closer to that of a large military complex. :p

Edited by Verrückt, 14 June 2007 - 05:11 PM.

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#52 DemonWolf

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 03:30 AM

So what you're saying is that Iraq invested in US industry.

I think 'investing' is the wrong word, but the other way around is probably more accurate.


I think it would be even more accurate to say that the USA took over IRAQ, what we see now is a Mock government similar to what the Germans had in Vichy France. Difference being the Germans had brains and the people in Iraq, well are entirely lacking one. The Iraqis have to take interest in the USA otherwise they are Fucked sideways.

I mean haven't you guys read about how the Americans are building an über large Embassy over there. But according to the EDA it's closer to that of a large military complex. :grin:


Calling people Nazis is pretty damn evil, buddy. Choose those words wisely.

Nazis systematically murdered millions. Don't you DARE make that comparison.
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#53 Verrückt

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 04:27 PM

With U.S sanctions, and the many wars the U.S has been in it's pretty damn close.

Edited by Verrückt, 16 June 2007 - 04:28 PM.

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#54 narboza22

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 04:20 AM

Do you have to try to be that ignorant, or does it come naturally?
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#55 MSpencer

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 03:10 PM

Do you have to try to be that ignorant, or does it come naturally?

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#56 Hostile

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 06:47 PM

So what you're saying is that Iraq invested in US industry.

I think 'investing' is the wrong word, but the other way around is probably more accurate.

This is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever read from a "drive by" poster. What the hell did anything I said have to do with your reply? I'm sorry Ash, bro, this doesn't even address one point I made.

I'm gonna reach here and try to link the post with the reply. I assume you're are trying to tie the US invasion of Iraq with the vassel state comment, and somehow US industry?

IF that is what you are saying than just say it.

So what you're saying is that Iraq invested in US industry.

This makes no sense. It isn't Iraq investing in the US, It ths US spending BILLIONS to rebuild Iraq. Well the US government isn't building the stuff, US companies are.

Who the heck else would you expect rebuild the infrastructure? It's called a circulation of funds, a fundamental economics idea used in rebuilding "other peoples stuff"

Our money circulates through they're economy which results in things being built and local workers being paid. This is orchestrated by "expert" level companies that know how to achieve these goals. So the money comes back in a "smaller" proportion back to the country it came from.

It's not stupid, nor exploitation, it's reality and is the only fully working model for how things are financed. See Marshall Plan WWII for greater details.

And anyone who compares the US to Nazis are only complete fucking idiots, no real need to punish them. They punish themselves by having all of Revora completely know they are idiots in the public light.

Even Muslim Extremists have nothing on the Nazis. The Nazis were a brutal, calculated, engineered, to destroy people. The irony is, I'm first genereation German-America, and I married a Jew. I don't blame the german people, my people, I blame the naive-ness of the German people at the time.

Enough with the Nazi crap.

#57 Verrückt

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:07 PM

First off i wasn't comparing them to The Nazi government that was in ww2 Germany, im comparing them to Imperial Germany in General. Germans during ww2 were not nazi's they were part of Imperial Germany. The Nazi party didnt organise the wars the generals of the German Army did, and most of them disliked the Nazi's. So no more nazi crap. It was DemonWolf who made the comparison.

Heres what your sanctions have done:

Iraq:

http://www.globaliss...q/Sanctions.asp
http://rwor.org/a/v2.../iraq_water.htm
http://en.wikipedia..../Iraq_sanctions

Sudan:

http://www.cnn.com/2...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2....wed/index.html

How can you defend such sanctions, I think that shows Complete Ignorance.

When it comes to the new U.S embassy you said that it was being privately built. Yes it is being privately built but you must remember the company was using illegal force labor from the Phillipenes to build it. But as the EDA has confirmed it is most deff. a Military structure more so than an Embassy.
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#58 narboza22

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 05:24 PM

So we should just accept all the shit that goes on in the world because you don't think sanctions are fair?
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#59 Hostile

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 08:03 PM

First off i wasn't comparing them to The Nazi government that was in ww2 Germany, im comparing them to Imperial Germany in General. Germans during ww2 were not nazi's they were part of Imperial Germany. The Nazi party didnt organise the wars the generals of the German Army did, and most of them disliked the Nazi's. So no more nazi crap. It was DemonWolf who made the comparison.

Heres what your sanctions have done:

Iraq:

http://www.globaliss...q/Sanctions.asp
http://rwor.org/a/v2.../iraq_water.htm
http://en.wikipedia..../Iraq_sanctions

Sudan:

http://www.cnn.com/2...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2....wed/index.html

How can you defend such sanctions, I think that shows Complete Ignorance.

When it comes to the new U.S embassy you said that it was being privately built. Yes it is being privately built but you must remember the company was using illegal force labor from the Phillipenes to build it. But as the EDA has confirmed it is most deff. a Military structure more so than an Embassy.

In reply to those sanctions? Why didn't you mention the reason we actually put the sanctions in place in the first place. Because they're killing thier own people. I'm sure there was a reason you failed to mention that part.

And what the hell are you talking about Philipino slaves being used to build an embassy in Iraq? And if you're gonna build en embassy in Iraq, it BETTER be a fortress because these idiots are blowing up thier own centuries old mosques.

#60 Verrückt

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 08:40 PM

First off i wasn't comparing them to The Nazi government that was in ww2 Germany, im comparing them to Imperial Germany in General. Germans during ww2 were not nazi's they were part of Imperial Germany. The Nazi party didnt organise the wars the generals of the German Army did, and most of them disliked the Nazi's. So no more nazi crap. It was DemonWolf who made the comparison.

Heres what your sanctions have done:

Iraq:

http://www.globaliss...q/Sanctions.asp
http://rwor.org/a/v2.../iraq_water.htm
http://en.wikipedia..../Iraq_sanctions

Sudan:

http://www.cnn.com/2...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2....wed/index.html

How can you defend such sanctions, I think that shows Complete Ignorance.

When it comes to the new U.S embassy you said that it was being privately built. Yes it is being privately built but you must remember the company was using illegal force labor from the Phillipenes to build it. But as the EDA has confirmed it is most deff. a Military structure more so than an Embassy.

In reply to those sanctions? Why didn't you mention the reason we actually put the sanctions in place in the first place. Because they're killing thier own people. I'm sure there was a reason you failed to mention that part.

And what the hell are you talking about Philipino slaves being used to build an embassy in Iraq? And if you're gonna build en embassy in Iraq, it BETTER be a fortress because these idiots are blowing up thier own centuries old mosques.


The Sanctions have only caused more death in iraq, due mainly to peoples despairity. Alright so Sadaam killed a few kurds, big deal. The United states sanctions have killed more Iraqi's than Sadaam, by the same logic Bush should be hanged as well. Their is a big diffrence between U.N sanctions and U.S sanctions, the U.N at least has the slightest bit of Clairvoyance; in my opinion it seems the American Government is comprised of retarded sheep.

When it comes to the workers from the Phillipenes:

http://ipsnorthameri....php?idnews=908
http://www.iraqslogg...x.php/post/3169
http://www.alternet....aroniraq/52793/

And the They in this case are three diffrent Muslims groups. Their is no point in categorising them all together as it shows the lack of respect for the Iraqi people. Shiites, Sunni, Kurd. Aside from these three diffrent religious groups you have Ex-Iraqi military out of work running around angry as hell ( This is directly the United states's fault, Good job deal with the ex-military i mean it's not like they would make good positions on the iraqi security force), and various political groups.

Edited by Verrückt, 18 June 2007 - 08:41 PM.

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