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Balance Thread 1.05.06


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#21 Devon

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:48 PM

Imo gondor are a bit underpriced, but the other uruk units are overpriced so i think it balances out. 400 I think for crossbows and 450 for pikes is insane for basic units. And you wont win a game using just normal soldiers, a decent cav charge and some archer backup would devastate that army.

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#22 Myrdin

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:56 PM

yeh the prices for isengard are too high, and you cant even use pikeman till you get lvl 2 uruk pit
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"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


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#23 Dalmp

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:39 AM

What if the prices stayed high, but you had some cheap orcs available as a starter unit? Maybe not free, but cheap (and not upgradeable) - something to give isengard some filler for it's early armies. Maybe even with a max count, like maybe you could only have 4-6 of the cheap orc units at a time?

Saruman had some regular orcs around to begin with, so I wouldn't think it'd be out of line to give Isen some weak ones. Just an idea anyway.
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#24 Devon

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 01:45 PM

I'd like that idea, except its been done by a lot of other mods before. I would say convert the dunland tavern thing into a really cheap building like the hobbit house, and let them be used as cheap spam while keeping uruk prices how they are now.

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#25 dojob

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 02:43 PM

That sounds good :rolleyes:
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#26 Dalf32

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 07:43 PM

i think most of saruman's orcs were from mordor anyways (he didnt create them himself) but i like the idea to cheapen the dunland clan steading (or whatever its called) and make them spammable.

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#27 Zyzzyva

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:11 PM

I like the idea of lowering the cost of the steading :rolleyes:. Perhaps lower the cost of the clan steading and add a very weak but large mob of dunlendings (like those sent against rohan settlements, but not the trained ones he used in battle in the books), perhaps with the current model of dunledings and no upgrades or just torches (no heavy armor), and make the current dunlending stats, with perhaps a bit more health and a more organised looking model (not so wild, more like the powerful warriors described at helms deep in the books), as a tier 2 fighters, as they would be pretty op as early game spam units.
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#28 Dalmp

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 12:32 AM

I would say convert the dunland tavern thing into a really cheap building like the hobbit house, and let them be used as cheap spam while keeping uruk prices how they are now.


Good idea. I like it. :p
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#29 Myrdin

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 10:53 AM

I like the idea of lowering the cost of the steading :ohmy:. Perhaps lower the cost of the clan steading and add a very weak but large mob of dunlendings (like those sent against rohan settlements, but not the trained ones he used in battle in the books), perhaps with the current model of dunledings and no upgrades or just torches (no heavy armor), and make the current dunlending stats, with perhaps a bit more health and a more organised looking model (not so wild, more like the powerful warriors described at helms deep in the books), as a tier 2 fighters, as they would be pretty op as early game spam units.


well said, i personally use the current barbarians of dunland pretty often ( they are wery usefull against enemy buildings, with torches even more, . . . well thats the purpose of this unit anyway :p ). But adding one more, spammable and cheap dunland unit, is a goo idea, no upgrades maybe just banners and torches, and weaker than normal barbarians. ( but if ya, then please let the axe throwers get the heavy armor upgrade )
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#30 Shinobi.

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:41 AM

Imo gondor are a bit underpriced, but the other uruk units are overpriced so i think it balances out. 400 I think for crossbows and 450 for pikes is insane for basic units. And you wont win a game using just normal soldiers, a decent cav charge and some archer backup would devastate that army.


Only thing is that uruk pikes are still ridiculously good with heavy armor there as strong as any of the other pike units and plus there is more of them.

I totally agree with the idea of having more expensive Gondor units because they are to cheap.

But i still think something really needs to be done with the Isengard units because yes they were very strong, but for game sake i think something needs to be done
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#31 Myrdin

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 12:38 PM

well uruk hai are ment to be strong. They were breed to be stronger than normal humans. I just dislike the idea getting pikeman as teir 2 unit, there is no chance to counter early game cawalery.
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#32 Shinobi.

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:37 PM

But for game sake maybe they should be weaker because when they become heavy armored they are incredibly strong which ,yes i no they were but thats not the point of balancing is it?
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#33 Dalmp

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 06:48 PM

That's exactly the point of balancing. Greater in some areas. Lesser in others. Balancing by making everything the same is horrible game design, and very boring to play.

Isen:
Strong expensive infantry.
Weak cavalry
Weak heroes, and few in number.
Weak ballista.

Looks fine to me. There are other factions that need work towards balance, however. Mostly the new ones.
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#34 Devon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 07:37 PM

Isen doesn't really haveweak ballistae, they're just low armored. And shinobi, you can ge like 4 gondor soldier hordes for 1 isen pike horde at the moment, and theres only 2 less men in each horde...

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#35 Shinobi.

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 07:49 PM

Well apparently then everyones against me :p

But maybe its because we have been comparing them to Gondor (a faction with strong cheep units)

Now take elves and dwarves, against a horde of uruk hai, Guardians or swordsmen get clobbered

So maybe the answer is adjust nothing because isnegard i suppose do have some weaker areas but someone said about wargs being weak there they are horribly wrong.
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#36 Devon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:00 PM

Wargs you need a level 2 den, and they're not the cheapest cav in game....Elf swords of course will lose, but mirks, which cost about the same as crossbows and even have less guys in horde, will demolish crossbows. Factions have their strength in different places...

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#37 Shinobi.

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:24 PM

Agreed just maybe isengard should have an elite archer
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#38 Devon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:25 PM

But their strength is in infantry, not archers, so why do that when you can just leave it be :p

"If it's not broken, then don't fix it" :ohmy:

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#39 Myrdin

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:29 PM

btw excuse me, to the mirkwoods :

Crossbows are said to be immune to arrows ! no they are not the building tool tip is just a lot of talk no reall efect. They dont have to be immune as immune, but they should have like 90% resistacne to ( 90% from 100% soo only 10% dmg taken ) arrows, well if you think ALL uruks ( no berserkers :p ) were hard arrmored, when they were sent to Helms Deep. Soo for the price of crossbows, at least increase the resistance against arrows, Crossbows cost too much, and arent really that big match for other archer units ( they are Isens only long range unit, barbaians have Slash damage as infantry and low range ).

And Shinoby, reconsider this, Isen is the only faction that doesnt have late game units ( no hero hordes now ), soo basically Full Up. pikeman horde cowers for it ( even though they are weaker then they originally were, they had 400 hp now they got just 300 !!! omg ). And to full up a bat or two isnt easy at all, when Heavy armor is at tier 3 armory. soo in multiplayer, it takes loong till you upgrade then.
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#40 Devon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:39 PM

Again, don't fix what isn't broken :p Crossbows can stay how they are imo, they make up for infantry's strength. Isen has zerkers for late game if you can get enough of them, and they have deathbringers as hero hordes. Heavy armor is actually at rank 2 :ohmy:

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