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#61 Hostile

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 02:31 AM

First off i wasn't comparing them to The Nazi government that was in ww2 Germany, im comparing them to Imperial Germany in General. Germans during ww2 were not nazi's they were part of Imperial Germany. The Nazi party didnt organise the wars the generals of the German Army did, and most of them disliked the Nazi's. So no more nazi crap. It was DemonWolf who made the comparison.

Heres what your sanctions have done:

Iraq:

http://www.globaliss...q/Sanctions.asp
http://rwor.org/a/v2.../iraq_water.htm
http://en.wikipedia..../Iraq_sanctions

Sudan:

http://www.cnn.com/2...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2....wed/index.html

How can you defend such sanctions, I think that shows Complete Ignorance.

When it comes to the new U.S embassy you said that it was being privately built. Yes it is being privately built but you must remember the company was using illegal force labor from the Phillipenes to build it. But as the EDA has confirmed it is most deff. a Military structure more so than an Embassy.

In reply to those sanctions? Why didn't you mention the reason we actually put the sanctions in place in the first place. Because they're killing thier own people. I'm sure there was a reason you failed to mention that part.

And what the hell are you talking about Philipino slaves being used to build an embassy in Iraq? And if you're gonna build en embassy in Iraq, it BETTER be a fortress because these idiots are blowing up thier own centuries old mosques.


The Sanctions have only caused more death in iraq, due mainly to peoples despairity. Alright so Sadaam killed a few kurds, big deal. The United states sanctions have killed more Iraqi's than Sadaam, by the same logic Bush should be hanged as well. Their is a big diffrence between U.N sanctions and U.S sanctions, the U.N at least has the slightest bit of Clairvoyance; in my opinion it seems the American Government is comprised of retarded sheep.

When it comes to the workers from the Phillipenes:

http://ipsnorthameri....php?idnews=908
http://www.iraqslogg...x.php/post/3169
http://www.alternet....aroniraq/52793/

And the They in this case are three diffrent Muslims groups. Their is no point in categorising them all together as it shows the lack of respect for the Iraqi people. Shiites, Sunni, Kurd. Aside from these three diffrent religious groups you have Ex-Iraqi military out of work running around angry as hell ( This is directly the United states's fault, Good job deal with the ex-military i mean it's not like they would make good positions on the iraqi security force), and various political groups.

While you are making your points, please don't get blood thirsty and passionate by stating:

Alright so Sadaam killed a few kurds, big deal.

Saddam chemical weaponed 5000 of the kurds. We've seen the images. Children lieing on the ground and such.

If there was forced labor it appears from the article that it was Kuwait. But seeing Kuwait is an ally of the US than it's the US fault. See you REALLY have to "reach" to get the left wing opinion to fit the arguement. Even though it stated the US became aware of it is and running an investigation.

The United states sanctions have killed more Iraqi's than Sadaam,

I read your sources. I read "one critic said upwards to 1 million people died due to the sanctions"

What is this critics name so I may research his credibility and how he came to this number? See you can't because you based your facts on "some nameless critic." So this means I can quote something namelessly and some person will quote it as fact.

See the media is left wing and gets away with "creating perceptions" without backing it up with facts. IMO what you quoted was complete, unfounded, and absolute bullshit. And you can quote me on that. :p

And the They in this case are three diffrent Muslims groups. Their is no point in categorising them all together as it shows the lack of respect for the Iraqi people. Shiites, Sunni, Kurd. Aside from these three diffrent religious groups you have Ex-Iraqi military out of work running around angry as hell ( This is directly the United states's fault, Good job deal with the ex-military i mean it's not like they would make good positions on the iraqi security force), and various political groups.

I cannot find any bullshit with this quote. It's basically explaining the obvious. Which I'd assume is obvious. Can't gaurentee it though.

#62 Verrückt

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 02:41 PM

Touchee, But you must remember that i too can question your sources as well. As not every fanatical right winger is trustable :p .

http://news.bbc.co.u...east/418597.stm <- This is from BBC which by rule of thumb is to be more trusted than any American source, as the American media lies to it's own people.

The Point being as that U.S sanctions are directly effecting the amount of deaths of civilians Iraq, that and the war aside. And as stated before the situation in Sudan is quite similar. In all honesty i can see why these people want to kill Americans (However I don't agree with such views).

Edited by Verrückt, 19 June 2007 - 02:42 PM.

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#63 Hostile

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 09:33 PM

Seeing the US media is vastly disprortionately left wing, than which side of the coin is doing most of the lieing.

And a source should have at least a name to research if one is arsed enough.

#64 GorGorgood

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 05:52 AM

First off i wasn't comparing them to The Nazi government that was in ww2 Germany, im comparing them to Imperial Germany in General. Germans during ww2 were not nazi's they were part of Imperial Germany. The Nazi party didnt organise the wars the generals of the German Army did, and most of them disliked the Nazi's. So no more nazi crap. It was DemonWolf who made the comparison.

Heres what your sanctions have done:

Iraq:

http://www.globaliss...q/Sanctions.asp
http://rwor.org/a/v2.../iraq_water.htm
http://en.wikipedia..../Iraq_sanctions

Sudan:

http://www.cnn.com/2...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2....wed/index.html

How can you defend such sanctions, I think that shows Complete Ignorance.

When it comes to the new U.S embassy you said that it was being privately built. Yes it is being privately built but you must remember the company was using illegal force labor from the Phillipenes to build it. But as the EDA has confirmed it is most deff. a Military structure more so than an Embassy.


Ohhhh, and also forget not UN sanctions against these same countries. If the UN had the wisdom it would have ordered the removal of Sadam in 1991, and the mess we have today wouldn't be so messy.

I think because you might be German you are suffering from WWII guilt, and are trying to be 'correct' in everything, and unfortunately not everything or everyone is perfect. So, you have not anything to feel guilty about because you weren't alive during WWII.

The problem is the human races own id and ego etc. Desire for power etc., as even Tolkien writes about.

We, the USA, have made mistakes, and still will as will everyone else. here are flaws in our system just as their are flaws in individuals and the human race as a whole.

Ponit is, that you and I and many others do not want to fight and have wars etc. but they will occur because of dictatorships, the lust for power including economic wealth, the need for natural resources if those natural resources are not shared, plotical idealism, religon, etc. Unfortuanately it's true. This is what the UN is supposed to help deal with.

The religous whackos that are killing their own people have to go. They are also responsible for the deaths of about 200,000 people in Algeria, another Muslim country.

Don't you find Baseball or Fussball/Soccer a much more enjoyable subject?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Take care, Chris

Edited by GorGorgood, 26 June 2007 - 05:55 AM.


#65 chemical ali

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 01:11 PM

Touchee, But you must remember that i too can question your sources as well. As not every fanatical right winger is trustable :rolleyes: .

http://news.bbc.co.u...east/418597.stm <- This is from BBC which by rule of thumb is to be more trusted than any American source, as the American media lies to it's own people.

The Point being as that U.S sanctions are directly effecting the amount of deaths of civilians Iraq, that and the war aside. And as stated before the situation in Sudan is quite similar. In all honesty i can see why these people want to kill Americans (However I don't agree with such views).


I don't think the Americans have you killed as many as your countrymen have.


Silly Kraut.
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#66 Verrückt

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 02:54 PM

Touchee, But you must remember that i too can question your sources as well. As not every fanatical right winger is trustable ^_^ .

http://news.bbc.co.u...east/418597.stm <- This is from BBC which by rule of thumb is to be more trusted than any American source, as the American media lies to it's own people.

The Point being as that U.S sanctions are directly effecting the amount of deaths of civilians Iraq, that and the war aside. And as stated before the situation in Sudan is quite similar. In all honesty i can see why these people want to kill Americans (However I don't agree with such views).


I don't think the Americans have you killed as many as your countrymen have.


Silly Kraut.


I wish i could speak english as well as you can :rolleyes: . The British could be considered Mongrels by Modern standards during the 1600-1700's. However the british changed once their empire fell. The same has happened to the French, Spanish, And Germans. The Americans are having their piece of the pie now.

If i knew what you were, or why God could hate humanity so much to make you, but you are silly :rolleyes:.
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#67 GorGorgood

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 11:48 AM

Touchee, But you must remember that i too can question your sources as well. As not every fanatical right winger is trustable ;) .

http://news.bbc.co.u...east/418597.stm <- This is from BBC which by rule of thumb is to be more trusted than any American source, as the American media lies to it's own people.

The Point being as that U.S sanctions are directly effecting the amount of deaths of civilians Iraq, that and the war aside. And as stated before the situation in Sudan is quite similar. In all honesty i can see why these people want to kill Americans (However I don't agree with such views).


I don't think the Americans have you killed as many as your countrymen have.


Silly Kraut.


I wish i could speak english as well as you can :D . The British could be considered Mongrels by Modern standards during the 1600-1700's. However the british changed once their empire fell. The same has happened to the French, Spanish, And Germans. The Americans are having their piece of the pie now.

If i knew what you were, or why God could hate humanity so much to make you, but you are silly ;).


We have had 'our piece of the pie' for some time, particularily since the end of WWII; there was the Cold war inclusive of the Korean and Vietnam wars etc. You should have been involved, as you would have found it mmmm, 'interesting', confounding, frustrating, sad, expensive in many ways, etc.

Previous to that, the ACW (American Civil War) and the Phillipine Insurrection after the Spanish-American War. We had our small bout of 'Imperialism/Colonialism' during this time up unitl WWI or the 1920's, depending on how one views it.

I am a retired 'Bananna Republic' dictator United Fruit Company exec. The el beego Fruitcake. :xcahik_:

Chris

First off i wasn't comparing them to The Nazi government that was in ww2 Germany, im comparing them to Imperial Germany in General. Germans during ww2 were not nazi's they were part of Imperial Germany. The Nazi party didnt organise the wars the generals of the German Army did, and most of them disliked the Nazi's. So no more nazi crap. It was DemonWolf who made the comparison.

Heres what your sanctions have done:

Iraq:

http://www.globaliss...q/Sanctions.asp
http://rwor.org/a/v2.../iraq_water.htm
http://en.wikipedia..../Iraq_sanctions

Sudan:

http://www.cnn.com/2...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2....wed/index.html

How can you defend such sanctions, I think that shows Complete Ignorance.

When it comes to the new U.S embassy you said that it was being privately built. Yes it is being privately built but you must remember the company was using illegal force labor from the Phillipenes to build it. But as the EDA has confirmed it is most deff. a Military structure more so than an Embassy.


Germany and te germans had a legitimate complaint at the end of WWI and were treated rather harshly after the war, particularily by the French but the French had suffered enormus loos of many sorts during the war.

Without the Nazi Party Germany and the German people would not have gone to war as the Junkers did not wield enough power and the nazi party brought all the resentment toward the Allies together and started on the road to WWII.

Hitler fooled everyone, including the German people and himself.

Some say Bush did this with Iraq, but Sadam was supporting terrorists, there was a terrorist camp in Iraq along the iranian border up north in Kurdistan at which a certain gorup whose name I forget was training and al-Quida was also there, Sadam did not destroy all his gas filled art. shells, and there was indeed found bits and pieces of WMD and plans for theese but the info. and weapons were not complete.

Sadam killed tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand of Kurds and Shiites, yet the UN did not order his removal in 1991 and the situation became worse due to the Kurish and Shiite rebellions and the UN sanctions against Iraq, which I agree were about useless and caused a lot of pain and starvation and hardship for the Iraqi people, Iraqi Christians included so it was not an anti Muslim sanctioning.

Same old same old. Human race has some problems to solve with itself.

Chris

Since people are also talking of the Middle east, here is an interesting article showing the widespread discontent with the Iranian government amongst its own citizens. Chris

Iran's Gas Rationing Sets Off Violence
By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago, 6-27-07

TEHRAN, Iran - Iranians smashed shop windows and set fire to a dozen gas stations in the capital Wednesday, angered by the sudden start of a fuel rationing system that threatens to further increase the unpopularity of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Police were sent to guard some stations after the violence, and there was calm during the day as motorists lined up to fill their tanks under the new restrictions.

The government had been warning for weeks that rationing was coming, but the announcement of its start just three hours before the plan took effect at midnight Tuesday startled people and sent them rushing to get one last fill-up.

The rationing is part of a government attempt to reduce the $10 billion it spends each year to import fuel that is then sold to Iranian drivers at less than cost, to keep prices low.

Iran is one of the world's biggest oil producers, but it doesn't have enough refineries, so it must import more than 50 percent of the gasoline its people use. The government says money saved from subsidies can go to
building refineries, improving public transit and creating jobs.

But a hike in gas prices last month and now the rationing are feeding discontent with Ahmadinejad, who was elected in 2005 on a platform of helping the poor and fixing Iran's ailing economy. His failure to do so has sparked widespread criticism.

"This man, Ahmadinejad, has damaged all things. The timing of the rationing is just one case," said Reza Khorrami, a 27-year-old teacher who was among those lined up at one Tehran gas station late Tuesday.

Iranians are accustomed to gasoline at rock bottom prices. After a 25 percent hike in prices imposed May 21, gas sells at the equivalent of 38 cents a gallon.

But rationing will limit private drivers to only 100 liters (26 gallons) of fuel a month at the subsidized price. Taxis can get 211 gallons.

Anything more than that will have to be bought at a higher price, which has yet to be announced. The short notice of the plan's start appeared to be aimed at preventing a rush to hoard fuel. Still, long lines of cars, some up to a half mile, formed after the announcement, and the mood turned violent in places.

Drivers attacked some stations after managers stopped selling fuel before midnight, saying they had to recalibrate their pumps for rationing. "This made people who were waiting in line angry, so they attacked the pumps," said a witness, Rasoul Enayati. At one of the attacked stations, several pumps were partly burned and windows were shattered and desks damaged in the office.

Fire Department spokesman Behrouz Tashakkor said 12 stations in Tehran were set on fire. Iran's police chief, Gen. Ismail Ahmadi Moghaddam, put the total of damaged stations at 17, and said people also broke windows in cars and other buildings, including banks.

"The police have called out their forces to control any possible disorder after the implementation of rationing," Moghaddam said. State-run television said some of those involved in the violence had been detained, but did not specify how many.

During the day Wednesday, drivers were still lining up at stations, but in smaller numbers.

"I could not fill my car last night because of the rush. Now I have come to experience my first quota," said Hassan Riahi, a 21-year-old engineering student waiting at a service station guarded by four police officers.

Conservatives in Iran's parliament, especially those aligned with the country's national oil company, have long pushed for higher gasoline prices.

Still, Ahmadinejad resisted the idea because of his campaign promise to share Iran's oil wealth with the poor. The government first said May 21 that rationing would begin in two weeks, but the move was delayed without explanation.

Even before rationing, the president was targeted by growing criticism _ even from conservatives who once supported him _ for dramatically raising housing and food prices in the past year.

Many fear the boost in fuel costs will heat up already high inflation, which is reported running at nearly 14 percent a year by Iran's Central Bank but estimated at around 25 percent by economists. Alaeddin Broujerdi, head of the parliamentary committee on national security and foreign policy, said there had been warnings of "security consequences" from starting rationing, but "not to the degree that occurred in Tehran" overnight. "The rationing could have been implemented in a better way," he was quoted as saying by the Web site of Iran's state broadcasting company.

On Wednesday, a group of legislators tried to introduce a bill to cancel rationing, but failed to win majority support. "People will get used to rationing soon," said Saeed Laylaz, a political analyst. "The country needs resources for reconstruction of its economy. It is no longer possible to import more than $10 billion of fuel a year." Iran's government is seeking $12 billion in investments to boost refining capacity from 1.6 million barrels a day to 2.9 million barrels in the next five years. It also hopes to increase oil production to 5.3 million barrels a day by 2014, from the current 4.3 million.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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#68 GorGorgood

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 05:45 AM

BTW, was anyone here in Iraq or even the military in 1990-1991 in the USA or other Coalition military forces??

UN blew it.

pUNk.

Chris

#69 Verrückt

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:37 PM

I'm much too young to have been anywehre during that period of time, lol. Im only 20 however i say im older for good measure.
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#70 GorGorgood

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 05:44 PM

I'm much too young to have been anywehre during that period of time, lol. Im only 20 however i say im older for good measure.


Unfortunately, I was also around in 1970-73, etc. I think I am 54, maybe 154, I don't know but maybe I'm 34 or so, maybe 20, beats me. :p

Hindsight is wonderful, but we need foresight methinks more so. I think that sometimes the human race has its headquarters in its hindquarters (from an old jest about a certain USofA Civil War General).

Seems as if when we try to avert conflicts we only put them off for awhile, then we still have the problems at a future date when those problems are even more difficult to solve.

In the 1st Gulf War of 1990-91, both Egypt and Syria each contributed an entire Army Corps to the Coalition forces, Pakistan contributed a brigade, and then there were all the forces of Kuwait, Saudia Arabia, Baharin, the UAE, etc. etc. They ALL wanted to remove Sadam from power by driving into Bagdhad.

So now, whether we agree with the USofA invasion of Iraq or not, we have more problems and most of those problems were already in existence before the USofA invasion of Iraq.

We won't and can't withdraw because there will be a power vacum and more anarchy in Iraq. Fortunately, a good number of Sunni insurgents and Sunni tribes are starting to cooperate and fight against Al-Quida.

It's unfortuante that the intercine Sunni vs. Shiite and Al-Quida vs. Everyone situation had occurred, and many people are beginning to finally see the true dictorial and religously fanatical and intolerant face of Al-Quida.

World is a crazy place. After the Vietnam War, in 1978 I do believe, mainland or Communist China invaded their former ally Vietnam with over 200,000 troops. The Vietnamese beat them off with local troops, and regular army units, and many of those reguklar army troops were fomer South Vietnamese Army troops, or ARVN. The Vietnamese helped the Khemer Rouge into power, and then fought to remove the KR when the KR became genocidal butchers. In the meantime, when Vietnam was fighting the KR for which they should be given great credit, China and the USofA supported the bloody KR with weapons etc. It doesn't make much sense does it !??! :lol:

Have a good day, and if looking at things look deep, but sometimes it is near senseless to try and derive just what is what and what the solution if any will be, so sometimes it is a waste of time to spend time looking deeply into some subjects.

Chris

Edited by GorGorgood, 02 July 2007 - 05:48 PM.


#71 Hostile

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 03:31 AM

BTW, was anyone here in Iraq or even the military in 1990-1991 in the USA or other Coalition military forces??

UN blew it.

pUNk.

Chris

I was currently serving a 6 year enlistment during GW1. I was not in the middle east. I was serving as a fire control petty officer (starting fires, not putting them out) aboard the USS Obannon DD987 at the time. I specialised in primarilary Mk86 54' main guns, though I certainly did alot of work on the Sea-Sparrow, as well as the Phalanx, and was Harpoon anti-ship missile qualified.

I achieved my National Defense medal, CIWS qualifications and made E-4 in less than one year.

So I've now dated myself abit also.

#72 GorGorgood

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 04:45 AM

BTW, was anyone here in Iraq or even the military in 1990-1991 in the USA or other Coalition military forces??

UN blew it.

pUNk.

Chris

I was currently serving a 6 year enlistment during GW1. I was not in the middle east. I was serving as a fire control petty officer (starting fires, not putting them out) aboard the USS Obannon DD987 at the time. I specialised in primarilary Mk86 54' main guns, though I certainly did alot of work on the Sea-Sparrow, as well as the Phalanx, and was Harpoon anti-ship missile qualified.

I achieved my National Defense medal, CIWS qualifications and made E-4 in less than one year.

So I've now dated myself abit also.


Ah ha. Getting up there in the years a bit now I see.

I went in the Army Reserves for a short time in 1990-92. In 1970-73 I was in the Infantry, and was eventually put on the TOW I AT misslile (it was new in 1972 and it was used with devastating results during the NVA 1972 Easter Offensive) as it replaced the 106mm RR. Gee, that means I was TOW Missile qualified, and also a Sqaud Leader for about 6-months or so. I went in 8-days after I turned 17. We called the NDSM our KP medal.

Past aquaintance of mine was in a Pershing I Nuke Missile Bn.

Chris




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