Edited by Lord Djibril, 31 January 2008 - 12:20 PM.
Units
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Lord Djibril
, Jan 17 2008 06:47 AM
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#41
Lord Djibril
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Posted 31 January 2008 - 09:07 AM
Infinity238 what the heck is a Escort Class of ZAFT? And shouldn't Slaughter Dagger be weaker than a Dagger L. for its just a Dagger with black scheme and Aile Striker, it should just be a special complement unit of a Phantom Pain ship, such as the Dominion and the Girty Lue Classes. The line up is great but, there could still be some improvement. By the way, what is a Mobile Armor Tank of the Alliance? Is it a larger tank, but still weaker than a mobile suit? May be the Hyperion G and the DOM be a level five main unit that will replace Windam and GOUF, and the two will just become a support unit.
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#42
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Posted 31 January 2008 - 07:23 PM
No, the slaughter dagger is Not just a dagger with a black schme and an aile striker. A dagger cant mount strikers anyway. A slaughter dagger is a 105 dagger, which is better than even a windam, alhtough there are debates on that. Anyway it beats the dagger L hands down, its got better lamination, better construction and and 4 sabers.
The hyperion G is supposed to be a mass-produced unit, but its clearly not very proliferated. I should think it should be some kind of special unit, if its going to be in the mod. The DOM too actually. As far as anyone knows, ZAFT never got into producing the DOMs. MAHQ describes it as such anyway. So...only Terminal has them, probably? I have no idea as to a replacement for it tho.
The windams and Gouf's are clearly the mainstay of either side. If i ended up at max tech lvl having hyperion vs dom fights everywhere...it doesnt feel quite right.
The hyperion G is supposed to be a mass-produced unit, but its clearly not very proliferated. I should think it should be some kind of special unit, if its going to be in the mod. The DOM too actually. As far as anyone knows, ZAFT never got into producing the DOMs. MAHQ describes it as such anyway. So...only Terminal has them, probably? I have no idea as to a replacement for it tho.
The windams and Gouf's are clearly the mainstay of either side. If i ended up at max tech lvl having hyperion vs dom fights everywhere...it doesnt feel quite right.
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#43
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Posted 31 January 2008 - 08:25 PM
We could just make them cost al00000000000000000000000t.
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#44
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Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:58 PM
You know, I was wondering about that thing....................
ok, what is it.
ok, what is it.
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#45
Infinity238
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:29 AM
OK think Mobius unit meets land cruiser.
Basically this came about after play testing, where a squad of Ginns could easily dispatch 20 tanks/ missle trucks. And this is without zafts specialized terra mobilesuits and land battleships. So this helps balence things a bit without makeing the mobilesuits suck. So for those WWII buffs think of the MA tank as a KV-1, not very meny / realy slow but stronger and powerful.
Basically this came about after play testing, where a squad of Ginns could easily dispatch 20 tanks/ missle trucks. And this is without zafts specialized terra mobilesuits and land battleships. So this helps balence things a bit without makeing the mobilesuits suck. So for those WWII buffs think of the MA tank as a KV-1, not very meny / realy slow but stronger and powerful.
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#46
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 04:48 AM
how come you didn't buff the tanks then?
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#47
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 06:59 AM
Because I get still get complaints about the space mobius being too good (Ginns in space have like a 5-1 kill ratio on mobius units) plus that gives EAF a land battleship type unit which they sorrly lacked in seed era.
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#48
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 07:24 AM
In my opinion, the the ratio 5 to 1 for mobius and ginn should be the right ratio. The MA tank's design is nice, id have to say. It has the same array thingy on the top that the linear tnak has, and shares some design similarities with the later MA.
After trying to balance EAF and various versions of zerox's mod many times, i come to the conclusion that making stuff cost alot usually doesnt balance things very well. If a player amasses alot of credits and builds these uber units, he becomes virtually invincible. And unless he's a total retard in RTS, there's usually no way he'll lose once that happens. I had this problem with B-wings, ships that spawned B-wings, and similarly for Tie Defenders. The thing is that credits tend to build up quite alot once you've gotten a number of planets or mining facilities. After that it becomes a spam fest.
I found one good balancing trick is to restrict construction to one or a few planets like captital ships. So special units can only be built at certain places.
We could just make them cost al00000000000000000000000t.
After trying to balance EAF and various versions of zerox's mod many times, i come to the conclusion that making stuff cost alot usually doesnt balance things very well. If a player amasses alot of credits and builds these uber units, he becomes virtually invincible. And unless he's a total retard in RTS, there's usually no way he'll lose once that happens. I had this problem with B-wings, ships that spawned B-wings, and similarly for Tie Defenders. The thing is that credits tend to build up quite alot once you've gotten a number of planets or mining facilities. After that it becomes a spam fest.
I found one good balancing trick is to restrict construction to one or a few planets like captital ships. So special units can only be built at certain places.
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#49
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 09:39 AM
We could impose a unit cap then?
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#50
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:57 PM
That would be nice, the game could just limit the numberp of Hyperion G and DOM Orig Specs. I just want to say that the dagger is the same with the 105 dagger, and it doesn't mean that it has 4 sabers it would be superior to a Dagger L. or a Windam, besides a Windam can also use an Aile pack for it is still an striker pack eaxcept for the Launcher and Sword for it lacks the shoulder pack part. While for the DOM, the Terminals version is the only one sent, but the real DOM of the ZAFT is much different than people think. And for the MA Tank of the Alliance, shouldn't it be that large for it looks like a land carrier, the Hannibal Class should be the considered as a land carrier of the Alliance. But great job Infinity...
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#51
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:38 PM
105 Dagger has anti-beam coating applied to it's body.
So technically speaking, it's got the best defence of any mobile suit.
And it's good tank finite, but the only thing that bugs me is that it looks too Star Wars-ish.
I'm more refering to the beam cannon and the one track at the end.
So technically speaking, it's got the best defence of any mobile suit.
And it's good tank finite, but the only thing that bugs me is that it looks too Star Wars-ish.
I'm more refering to the beam cannon and the one track at the end.
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#52
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:50 PM
The 105 Dagger is the first prototype mass production model of the Alliance, while the Strike Dagger was a simplified version of it because of the lack of time of the Alliance to produce it and the Dagger L. Windam models are derived from it so this mean would mean they have all the feature of the 105 Dagger and also have some improvements. These would mean the Slaughter Dagger would just be as strong as a 105 Dagger, th only unit of the Alliance that would not have beam coating would be th CAT Series of the Eurasian Forces.
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#53
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 03:09 PM
Actually, as it's specifically stated that the 105 dagger has the anti-beam coating, and no mention is made of any other unit having it, it's a safe bet that the 105 is the only one with it.
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#54
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 04:55 PM
Hey guys may i ask how your going to fit the destory Gundam in the tech lvls and cost wise?
Edited by Zexion01, 01 February 2008 - 05:01 PM.
#55
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 05:08 PM
Yes, 105 daggers are a more expensive version of the strike dagger. Doesnt that make them very much superior, just as the 105 daggers are based off but not as good as the strike daggers?
And we've seen lots of 105 daggers in manga. Going by the astray series you'd wonder which is OMNNi's real mainline suit, the strike or 105 version.
I thought 105 daggers had Laminated armor, like Archangel. Effectively, that gives it the same anti-beam properties anyway.
Oh, no windams dont have this precious defense. If they did we wouldnt have seen them being shot down by the dozen in the series. In anycase, being based upon the 105 dagger doesnt automatically mean that the windam has it too. The 105 doesnt have phase shift armor does it?
Windams DO NOT mount striker packs. Windams have only ever mounted their own jet strikers and nuke launcher packs. They cannot even mount dagger L packs.
I think of the 105 as more like a cheaper gundam. Its not as disposable as the other daggers, even 3 years later.
Now for DOMs. Ahem. Yes, there's a white colour DOM prototype unit. That ZAFT never put into production because they decided to favour technology that went into S. Freedom and I. Justice. So there are no units of it in ZAFT, since i believe the purple ones are the original prototype units, heavily modified. Admitedly, their numbering is suggestive, so there may still be 6 left at least in ZAFT hands.
And we've seen lots of 105 daggers in manga. Going by the astray series you'd wonder which is OMNNi's real mainline suit, the strike or 105 version.
I thought 105 daggers had Laminated armor, like Archangel. Effectively, that gives it the same anti-beam properties anyway.
Oh, no windams dont have this precious defense. If they did we wouldnt have seen them being shot down by the dozen in the series. In anycase, being based upon the 105 dagger doesnt automatically mean that the windam has it too. The 105 doesnt have phase shift armor does it?
Windams DO NOT mount striker packs. Windams have only ever mounted their own jet strikers and nuke launcher packs. They cannot even mount dagger L packs.
I think of the 105 as more like a cheaper gundam. Its not as disposable as the other daggers, even 3 years later.
Now for DOMs. Ahem. Yes, there's a white colour DOM prototype unit. That ZAFT never put into production because they decided to favour technology that went into S. Freedom and I. Justice. So there are no units of it in ZAFT, since i believe the purple ones are the original prototype units, heavily modified. Admitedly, their numbering is suggestive, so there may still be 6 left at least in ZAFT hands.
Edited by Dark Lord Revan, 01 February 2008 - 05:14 PM.
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#56
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Posted 01 February 2008 - 07:06 PM
By makeing it cost lots and require special research.Hey guys may i ask how your going to fit the destory Gundam in the tech lvls and cost wise?
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#57
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 02:05 AM
Alright may be the Windam, Dagger L. does not have the laminated armor of the 105 Dagger, but those two have the striker pack capability and an updated versions of abilities and skills. Second the 105 Dagger does not have the phase shift armor technology, its only an simplified version of the 105 Strike and the Strike Dagger is a simplified version of the 105 Dagger for the lack of time for production.
For the Destroy Gundam may be Infinity you may require the Hannibal Carrier class to carry it and the Extended research so that it would pilot it.
For the Destroy Gundam may be Infinity you may require the Hannibal Carrier class to carry it and the Extended research so that it would pilot it.
Edited by Lord Djibril, 02 February 2008 - 02:14 AM.
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#58
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:52 AM
No one said the 105 Dagger had PS.
anyway, Phase Shift is next to pointless in a day an age of beam weapons which can go right through it.
anyway, Phase Shift is next to pointless in a day an age of beam weapons which can go right through it.
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#59
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:12 PM
Not really. It depends. I suppose PS armor is more useful for ace pilots, so that they only have to concentrate on avoiding beam hits. Which are much easier to notice. Lamination or anti-beam coating is for the average pilot, since you will usually see them on the frontlines sucking up beam shots, and trying to hit anything they see.
Since the ace pilots stay in longer and move around alot, they're more likely to suffer from hits from debris or stray ballistic ammo. So PS is better.
They do not have striker pack capability. I said this already. THEY DO NOT. Dagger L's and windams mount doppelhorn and jet packs. Windams may also have that special nuke attachment. 105's may mount ANY dagger or striker pack. Maybe you were confused by this.
If the dagger Ls and windams could mount striker packs, then there wouldn't be anything special about the gundam astray out frame, since its most important ability is to be able to equip any pack.
As for updated version of skills and abilities, i dont know what you mean by this. Nothing seems to suggest that windams or dagger L's are in any way better than 105s.
It would be too good for hannibal's to come with their own destroys. And destroys dont need to be carried by them either. But balancing wise, this might be an idea.
Since the ace pilots stay in longer and move around alot, they're more likely to suffer from hits from debris or stray ballistic ammo. So PS is better.
but those two have the striker pack capability and an updated versions of abilities and skills
They do not have striker pack capability. I said this already. THEY DO NOT. Dagger L's and windams mount doppelhorn and jet packs. Windams may also have that special nuke attachment. 105's may mount ANY dagger or striker pack. Maybe you were confused by this.
If the dagger Ls and windams could mount striker packs, then there wouldn't be anything special about the gundam astray out frame, since its most important ability is to be able to equip any pack.
As for updated version of skills and abilities, i dont know what you mean by this. Nothing seems to suggest that windams or dagger L's are in any way better than 105s.
It would be too good for hannibal's to come with their own destroys. And destroys dont need to be carried by them either. But balancing wise, this might be an idea.
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#60
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:58 PM
Most, if not all Aces have shown the ability to dodge projectile based weaponry.
and Luna, Shinn are not aces.
and Luna, Shinn are not aces.
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