Well, two days ago I continued my Rebel vs Thrawn campaign, and above Bilbiringi (or whatever this system is called ) I fought a battle with Space Station Lvl 5, 4 Golan stations and 2 Praetors. I encircled them, so Lvl5 Station and Golans went down first, but as soon as second one went down, Sovereign appeared.

And here comes the problem I also had in many other mods. Balance. The most effective & cheapest fleet is usually bomber-oriented. I quickly lost Ackbar & 2MC-80s, and didn't summon rest of my heavy force (another 3 MC-80s and 2 MC-104s) but all the bombers I had. Unfortunately, 'only' around 16 squadrons of Y-Wings supported by around 10 squadrons of A and X wings. The battle lasted for about and hour (horrible lag :( ) of tedious 'direct fighters to engage every new squad that Sovereign spawns', while my bombers were pounding it without punishment. Finally it started to retreat but got destroyed 2 seconds later. Lucky me, if it I'd have to do this again I'd probably stop playing

Few comments-questions:
1) maybe some ships (like sovereign) could use command
<Fire_Category_Restrictions> Fighter, Bomber, Transport </Fire_Category_Restrictions>
for some of their turbolasers? Seriously, what's the point in firing if you cannot hit? Isn't it easier to give it few more-accurate-against-fighters batteries that could simulate all those accidental hits that happen from time to time?

2) Is it possible to force player to auto-summon units? As it works now, It's an excellent idea not to summon ships if you are losing and cannot retreat... Also Sovereign would easily destroy my ships, so I gave up bringing them down - which would not be the case IRL (rather, ISWL )

3) Scale. I'm about to adjust it seriously, as current pathfinding is horrible. I often find my ships (especially the heaviest) out of position :( What's your experience on this issue?


EDIT:
4) Pop cap. What do you think about that? Having 44/48 occupied by sovereign is not a very good solution IMO, as it basicly creates single FRIGATE vs SWARM OF BOMBERS battle...

Edited by keraunos, 13 April 2008 - 03:29 PM.

Sovereign is going for canon size so probably it will not be resized. It is supposed to be hard to defeat and only bombers can destroy it. Also if you were in it wouldn't you fire all canons on bombers in hopes of a lucky shot?

1. Why? That's how it would actually work. Still, the ship will target fighters/bombers last.
2. That makes no sense. If I was going into a situation where one type of ship would be vulnerable, and I had lost some of that type, why would I bring in more?
3. The ships do seem to have minds of their own, but I don't know what we can do about it. Have to ask Phoenix that.
4. You can change the Pop Cap. It's under factions.xml. I raised mine to 75, and haven't had too much trouble with lag.

Sovereign is going for canon size so probably it will not be resized. It is supposed to be hard to defeat and only bombers can destroy it. Also if you were in it wouldn't you fire all canons on bombers in hopes of a lucky shot?

You can resize all the ships, then it won't be a problem. As it is now, Sovereign can't move on many maps, so it's basicly a stationary canon

1. Why? That's how it would actually work. Still, the ship will target fighters/bombers last.
2. That makes no sense. If I was going into a situation where one type of ship would be vulnerable, and I had lost some of that type, why would I bring in more?
3. The ships do seem to have minds of their own, but I don't know what we can do about it. Have to ask Phoenix that.
4. You can change the Pop Cap. It's under factions.xml. I raised mine to 75, and haven't had too much trouble with lag.

1. Becouse of lag. My system is not the best one, but it's not the worst one either: Proc. 1,8 Ghz, 1Gb RAM, 256 Mb gfx. Destroying Sovereign takes painfully long time, yet during this battle, with hundreds of turbolasers shooting, lag was extremely annoying. We could keep the balance by giving say 1/4 ability to target fighters, and increase their accuracy 4 times... It's especially the case with Sovereign - engaging it with anything that can be targetted by it's superlaser is pure suicide.

2. That's not how SW hyperdrive works. Ships travel through real space with tremendous speed, but you cannot precisely choose the moment & place ships hyperspace in (no, I won't introduce Thrawn's tactics in here ). So in theory the entire fleet is already present (hyperspaced in) and it's not available on map due to map's size*lag issues. I agree that you should be able to bring to front line whatever unit you wish, but you should bring it on the edges of the map. And they should definitely be targettable by superlasers.

My tactics was perfectly reasonable yet unrealistic (aka gamey). I kept my units 'in reserves' becouse every one of them would be immediately destroyed by Sovereign. It's one thing to bring units you want to use, but another one is to keep your forces on 20/48 limit becouse of every other unit would be destroyed.

3. I don't think we can do anything - it's all about horrible pathfinding & unit sizes. PR altered problem a bit by giving each category of ships their 'latitude'. That's why I'm thinking about rescalling all the ships Frigate+ sizes by -30/40/50%... My question should rather be: do you find it that annoying like me?

4. I know, but I won't due to lag :/ I'll have to change my system first. I rather asked about balance issues here. How do you find the game with 75 popcap? What about balance? Lag (and what are your spec reqs)?

My tactics was perfectly reasonable yet unrealistic (aka gamey). I kept my units 'in reserves' becouse every one of them would be immediately destroyed by Sovereign. It's one thing to bring units you want to use, but another one is to keep your forces on 20/48 limit becouse of every other unit would be destroyed.

I just send out waves and waves of ships! Typical imperal .
Resizing all the ships would be a pain and to make the sovereign to fix the pathfinding issues you would have to make it smaller then the vaneilla executor. That would make the corvettes tiny! A giant gun is all it should be and that would be fine if someone could increase the range of the turbolasers.

I just send out waves and waves of ships! Typical imperal .
Resizing all the ships would be a pain and to make the sovereign to fix the pathfinding issues you would have to make it smaller then the vaneilla executor. That would make the corvettes tiny! A giant gun is all it should be and that would be fine if someone could increase the range of the turbolasers.

It works...as Empire And I try Rebels from time to time - you've got to know your enemy
And I want to resize all larger unit only, as I don't want to use magnifying glass to find Neb-Bs I sometimes sacrifice realistic scale for realistic tactics, and having MC80s turning around simply becouse there's an allied ship 2km further is hardly realistic :/

Sovereign is going for canon size so probably it will not be resized. It is supposed to be hard to defeat and only bombers can destroy it. Also if you were in it wouldn't you fire all canons on bombers in hopes of a lucky shot?

You can resize all the ships, then it won't be a problem. As it is now, Sovereign can't move on many maps, so it's basicly a stationary canon

1. Becouse of lag. My system is not the best one, but it's not the worst one either: Proc. 1,8 Ghz, 1Gb RAM, 256 Mb gfx. Destroying Sovereign takes painfully long time, yet during this battle, with hundreds of turbolasers shooting, lag was extremely annoying. We could keep the balance by giving say 1/4 ability to target fighters, and increase their accuracy 4 times... It's especially the case with Sovereign - engaging it with anything that can be targetted by it's superlaser is pure suicide.

2. That's not how SW hyperdrive works. Ships travel through real space with tremendous speed, but you cannot precisely choose the moment & place ships hyperspace in (no, I won't introduce Thrawn's tactics in here ). So in theory the entire fleet is already present (hyperspaced in) and it's not available on map due to map's size*lag issues. I agree that you should be able to bring to front line whatever unit you wish, but you should bring it on the edges of the map. And they should definitely be targettable by superlasers.

My tactics was perfectly reasonable yet unrealistic (aka gamey). I kept my units 'in reserves' becouse every one of them would be immediately destroyed by Sovereign. It's one thing to bring units you want to use, but another one is to keep your forces on 20/48 limit becouse of every other unit would be destroyed.

3. I don't think we can do anything - it's all about horrible pathfinding & unit sizes. PR altered problem a bit by giving each category of ships their 'latitude'. That's why I'm thinking about rescalling all the ships Frigate+ sizes by -30/40/50%... My question should rather be: do you find it that annoying like me?

4. I know, but I won't due to lag :/ I'll have to change my system first. I rather asked about balance issues here. How do you find the game with 75 popcap? What about balance? Lag (and what are your spec reqs)?

1. Interesting reason. I've never found lag that bad, partially because I take the time to plan and watch the graphics. One thing you can do is run it in fast foreward. This aproximates normal speed. See #4 for more stuff.
2. Actually, it is. In most cases, except Zahn (I trust him more, but I'll have to disagree with him in this case) ships can come out of hyperspace on fairly small targets (BFC, Ambush at Corellia). Also, how would you code it?
3. Why resize them. I do get annoyed when my Bulwarks wander, but it hasn't been a problem too much.
4. I'm not sure of my exact specs, but I deal with lag by fast-forewarding. The only time it was appreciable was during my first thrawn campaign, when I attacked Yaga Minor with the Lusankya, and a full fleet. It ran slow, but it was fun to watch.

My tactics was perfectly reasonable yet unrealistic (aka gamey). I kept my units 'in reserves' becouse every one of them would be immediately destroyed by Sovereign. It's one thing to bring units you want to use, but another one is to keep your forces on 20/48 limit becouse of every other unit would be destroyed.

I just send out waves and waves of ships! Typical imperal .
Resizing all the ships would be a pain and to make the sovereign to fix the pathfinding issues you would have to make it smaller then the vaneilla executor. That would make the corvettes tiny! A giant gun is all it should be and that would be fine if someone could increase the range of the turbolasers.

The range of the turbolasers is being increased in 1.1. Still, the maps could be larger, seeing as the space maps are all from vanilla, and they aren't that hard to resize. This would be a good thing to do in later updates.

I just send out waves and waves of ships! Typical imperal .
Resizing all the ships would be a pain and to make the sovereign to fix the pathfinding issues you would have to make it smaller then the vaneilla executor. That would make the corvettes tiny! A giant gun is all it should be and that would be fine if someone could increase the range of the turbolasers.

It works...as Empire And I try Rebels from time to time - you've got to know your enemy
And I want to resize all larger unit only, as I don't want to use magnifying glass to find Neb-Bs I sometimes sacrifice realistic scale for realistic tactics, and having MC80s turning around simply becouse there's an allied ship 2km further is hardly realistic :/

The realistic tactics v. realistic scale is an interesting arguement. I don't have a problem with it, but ship control should be improved (to prevent ship wandering). The only problems I've had are with the Lusankya and Bulwarks.

Weird. I only have a bit better specs and mine does not lag. Not much anyway thanks to the Dalmp pack.

I just send out waves and waves of ships! Typical imperal .
Resizing all the ships would be a pain and to make the sovereign to fix the pathfinding issues you would have to make it smaller then the vaneilla executor. That would make the corvettes tiny! A giant gun is all it should be and that would be fine if someone could increase the range of the turbolasers.

It works...as Empire And I try Rebels from time to time - you've got to know your enemy
And I want to resize all larger unit only, as I don't want to use magnifying glass to find Neb-Bs I sometimes sacrifice realistic scale for realistic tactics, and having MC80s turning around simply becouse there's an allied ship 2km further is hardly realistic :/

The realistic tactics v. realistic scale is an interesting arguement. I don't have a problem with it, but ship control should be improved (to prevent ship wandering). The only problems I've had are with the Lusankya and Bulwarks.

Most of the time I use many ship classes, but tend to stick with to only few classes per fleet. That's why, on diffrent 'levels' I have many same units, like 4 MC80s, 4 Dodonnas etc. As it is now, it's impossible to micromanage them - the spaces between asteroids are too small, and even Dodonnas usually have a problem and start to turn around :( I find beeing out of position painfuly, as space should be the least problem in space battle, after all. It's even worse with the Empire, in campaign I mention I was able to easily outmaneouvre one Praetor - he dealt almost no damage.

So IMO rescaling ships should help, as it limits visual experience a bit, but gives more tactical control over battlefield. Don't get me wrong, I'm still winning easily , but I hate beeing out of position simply becouse one ship decides to turn around or, better yet, go all around asteroid field and (obviously) miss the whole firefight. Such an illogical behaviour kills SW-climate for me :(

1. Interesting reason. I've never found lag that bad, partially because I take the time to plan and watch the graphics. One thing you can do is run it in fast foreward. This aproximates normal speed. See #4 for more stuff.
2. Actually, it is. In most cases, except Zahn (I trust him more, but I'll have to disagree with him in this case) ships can come out of hyperspace on fairly small targets (BFC, Ambush at Corellia). Also, how would you code it?
3. Why resize them. I do get annoyed when my Bulwarks wander, but it hasn't been a problem too much.
4. I'm not sure of my exact specs, but I deal with lag by fast-forewarding. The only time it was appreciable was during my first thrawn campaign, when I attacked Yaga Minor with the Lusankya, and a full fleet. It ran slow, but it was fun to watch.

1 & 4. For me without Dalmp's pack game was unplayable at all, now it's simply very laggy. It took me an hour to kill Sovereign (luckily I did it before work ), and like half of the time I run it on fast forward.. :(
2. I won't, that's why I ask do anybody have any idea how to code it My main point is not about coming out of hyperspace in precise place, but rather time. SW ships don't 'warp' or something, they simply move with super speed. When it comes out of hyperspace, entire fleet is present - we don't call reinforcements because we think we need them (unless in emergency - but then again, entire fleet comes).
3. For me it is, I really like to control if I'm commander. Move them a bit, engage. I'd like to see more tactics then 'use AIs stupidity and pick it up 1 ship at a time', and resolving

What about ships - do you use many of big ones? I tend to restrict fighters (as they are OP) and stick to larger units. In battles I find 2 MC-120s or 3 MC-80s hardly managable. I move one, and it starts to swing circles, becouse other is somwhere nearby :/

Blastboats. I once won a whole battle with two blastboats and a Hyper gun. They had 2 bulwurks too! I also use many capitals and carriers. Not much on the huge ships though. I get ships no bigger then the Imperal class.

I just send out waves and waves of ships! Typical imperal .
Resizing all the ships would be a pain and to make the sovereign to fix the pathfinding issues you would have to make it smaller then the vaneilla executor. That would make the corvettes tiny! A giant gun is all it should be and that would be fine if someone could increase the range of the turbolasers.

It works...as Empire And I try Rebels from time to time - you've got to know your enemy
And I want to resize all larger unit only, as I don't want to use magnifying glass to find Neb-Bs I sometimes sacrifice realistic scale for realistic tactics, and having MC80s turning around simply becouse there's an allied ship 2km further is hardly realistic :/

The realistic tactics v. realistic scale is an interesting arguement. I don't have a problem with it, but ship control should be improved (to prevent ship wandering). The only problems I've had are with the Lusankya and Bulwarks.

Most of the time I use many ship classes, but tend to stick with to only few classes per fleet. That's why, on diffrent 'levels' I have many same units, like 4 MC80s, 4 Dodonnas etc. As it is now, it's impossible to micromanage them - the spaces between asteroids are too small, and even Dodonnas usually have a problem and start to turn around :( I find beeing out of position painfuly, as space should be the least problem in space battle, after all. It's even worse with the Empire, in campaign I mention I was able to easily outmaneouvre one Praetor - he dealt almost no damage.

So IMO rescaling ships should help, as it limits visual experience a bit, but gives more tactical control over battlefield. Don't get me wrong, I'm still winning easily , but I hate beeing out of position simply becouse one ship decides to turn around or, better yet, go all around asteroid field and (obviously) miss the whole firefight. Such an illogical behaviour kills SW-climate for me :(

I would rescale the maps, which is easy to do. That, and looking

1. Interesting reason. I've never found lag that bad, partially because I take the time to plan and watch the graphics. One thing you can do is run it in fast foreward. This aproximates normal speed. See #4 for more stuff.
2. Actually, it is. In most cases, except Zahn (I trust him more, but I'll have to disagree with him in this case) ships can come out of hyperspace on fairly small targets (BFC, Ambush at Corellia). Also, how would you code it?
3. Why resize them. I do get annoyed when my Bulwarks wander, but it hasn't been a problem too much.
4. I'm not sure of my exact specs, but I deal with lag by fast-forewarding. The only time it was appreciable was during my first thrawn campaign, when I attacked Yaga Minor with the Lusankya, and a full fleet. It ran slow, but it was fun to watch.

1 & 4. For me without Dalmp's pack game was unplayable at all, now it's simply very laggy. It took me an hour to kill Sovereign (luckily I did it before work ), and like half of the time I run it on fast forward.. :(
2. I won't, that's why I ask do anybody have any idea how to code it My main point is not about coming out of hyperspace in precise place, but rather time. SW ships don't 'warp' or something, they simply move with super speed. When it comes out of hyperspace, entire fleet is present - we don't call reinforcements because we think we need them (unless in emergency - but then again, entire fleet comes).
3. For me it is, I really like to control if I'm commander. Move them a bit, engage. I'd like to see more tactics then 'use AIs stupidity and pick it up 1 ship at a time', and resolving

What about ships - do you use many of big ones? I tend to restrict fighters (as they are OP) and stick to larger units. In battles I find 2 MC-120s or 3 MC-80s hardly managable. I move one, and it starts to swing circles, becouse other is somwhere nearby :/

Not really. I tend to use a few of each type of unit, instead of concentrating on any one type. Number 2 is pretty much impossible. 3. I agree with you, but I'm not sure what we can do about it. Dalmp's pack has been useful, but I haven't had many problems without it.

I would rescale the maps, which is easy to do. That, and looking

For me making ships smaller is easier

Not really. I tend to use a few of each type of unit, instead of concentrating on any one type. Number 2 is pretty much impossible. 3. I agree with you, but I'm not sure what we can do about it. Dalmp's pack has been useful, but I haven't had many problems without it.

Agreed that 2 is impossible, it's on my wishlist for next EaW As for few units type: are you dividing them equally between fleets? My main question is not how many ship types you develop and build, but use in each combat fleet. And are they from diffrent classes? Like 1 type of corvettes, 1 type of frigetes, 1 type of capitals and 1 type of dreadnoughts?

I'm asking becouse I hardly use corvettes (too fragile for me) - I stick to capitals and dreadnoughts supported by anti-fighters frigates; I rarely use large number of fighter - I keep rebel ones in reserves (in case Sovereign shows up), and my imperial ones die very fast (I don't upgrade them past TIE Fighter & TIE Bomber )

I would rescale the maps, which is easy to do. That, and looking

For me making ships smaller is easier

Not really. I tend to use a few of each type of unit, instead of concentrating on any one type. Number 2 is pretty much impossible. 3. I agree with you, but I'm not sure what we can do about it. Dalmp's pack has been useful, but I haven't had many problems without it.

Agreed that 2 is impossible, it's on my wishlist for next EaW As for few units type: are you dividing them equally between fleets? My main question is not how many ship types you develop and build, but use in each combat fleet. And are they from diffrent classes? Like 1 type of corvettes, 1 type of frigetes, 1 type of capitals and 1 type of dreadnoughts?

I'm asking becouse I hardly use corvettes (too fragile for me) - I stick to capitals and dreadnoughts supported by anti-fighters frigates; I rarely use large number of fighter - I keep rebel ones in reserves (in case Sovereign shows up), and my imperial ones die very fast (I don't upgrade them past TIE Fighter & TIE Bomber )

Me too. I go for the big ships, supported by fully upgraded Lancers as soon as i can get them. (Those things are murder against fighters and bombers) But you should at lest use some Gammas and Nova Wings; I took down 4 Bulwarks and 5 MC120s with 5 of each and lvl 2 Space Station. (Fully upgraded of course.)

Edited by Kitkun, 13 February 2010 - 07:36 AM.

I would rescale the maps, which is easy to do. That, and looking

For me making ships smaller is easier

Not really. I tend to use a few of each type of unit, instead of concentrating on any one type. Number 2 is pretty much impossible. 3. I agree with you, but I'm not sure what we can do about it. Dalmp's pack has been useful, but I haven't had many problems without it.

Agreed that 2 is impossible, it's on my wishlist for next EaW As for few units type: are you dividing them equally between fleets? My main question is not how many ship types you develop and build, but use in each combat fleet. And are they from diffrent classes? Like 1 type of corvettes, 1 type of frigetes, 1 type of capitals and 1 type of dreadnoughts?

I'm asking becouse I hardly use corvettes (too fragile for me) - I stick to capitals and dreadnoughts supported by anti-fighters frigates; I rarely use large number of fighter - I keep rebel ones in reserves (in case Sovereign shows up), and my imperial ones die very fast (I don't upgrade them past TIE Fighter & TIE Bomber )

I tend to use one of every type of ships in my big fleets, except only one dreadnought. I'm still working on tactics, though, so that may change.

I tend to use one of every type of ships in my big fleets, except only one dreadnought. I'm still working on tactics, though, so that may change.

Ah, that might be an answer... I like to have few types of ships, since then selecting (double-click) and using special abilities is much easier

1. Why? That's how it would actually work. Still, the ship will target fighters/bombers last.
2. That makes no sense. If I was going into a situation where one type of ship would be vulnerable, and I had lost some of that type, why would I bring in more?
3. The ships do seem to have minds of their own, but I don't know what we can do about it. Have to ask Phoenix that.
4. You can change the Pop Cap. It's under factions.xml. I raised mine to 75, and haven't had too much trouble with lag.

Where exactly can you change the pop cap?

Where exactly can you change the pop cap?

Check <Space_Tactical_Unit_Cap>25</Space_Tactical_Unit_Cap>

I put 75 in the field but nothing happened.

EDIT: Problem solved.

Edited by anakinskysolo, 20 April 2008 - 09:45 PM.

I tend to use one of every type of ships in my big fleets, except only one dreadnought. I'm still working on tactics, though, so that may change.

Ah, that might be an answer... I like to have few types of ships, since then selecting (double-click) and using special abilities is much easier

It makes sure that whatever the enemy throws at you can be countered. Use hotkeys for control. The one gripe I have with double-clicking is that it doesn't select the various upgrades together, but I don't think it can be fixed.