I was trying to post a goodbye!

Who's, Ring's? If so, I agree.

Obviously Ringy's. This is rather serious, please stay on topic guys.

I agree with Caspa, we should be trying to get to the bottom of this.

Hostile has been one of the most important, influential members here. Who the fuck decided treating him like shit was a good idea?

Quote for the truth.

The guy has history here. He has made many contributions for this place, specially with T3A, CnC3.Net and thanks to him, many of the people who are in charge of this network are here. He worked his ass for this place. Then, people treat him like shit and get pissed off when his mood is affected and he becomes hostile (no pun intended) with them. He's been treated like crap by some people for years here, although the intensity of this attitude against him increased in the latest months. Of course, any person would be altered at these conditions. He actually cares about Revora, worked hard on it.. and this is what he gets in return? Come on!


Either way, I hope he uses these 3 days to relax. At least, it would be a good idea for him.

Come on people. Give me a break. WHO ELSE BESIDES A GODDAMN ADMIN COULD DO CRAP LIKE THAT TO HOSTILE?!

Besides a hacker, no one.

Come on people. Give me a break. WHO ELSE BESIDES A GODDAMN ADMIN COULD DO CRAP LIKE THAT TO HOSTILE?!

...Nobody? I don't think anybody's denying that?

Stay out of it Ringy, you'll only make it worse.

For the record, if a user trolls/spams then such posts will be deleted. It doesn't matter if the poster is Hostile, 2playgames or some bloke who signed up yesterday. Some of Hostile's posts have been deleted for this reason. As for the specific incident yesterday, it hasn't been worked out yet. It's a bizarre (and unfortunate) situation, but please can we stop exaggerating - people have NOT been editing/deleting his posts or profile just for the heck of it, and Hostile is not an completely innocent victim.

The guy has history here. He has made many contributions for this place, specially with T3A, CnC3.Net and thanks to him, many of the people who are in charge of this network are here. He worked his ass for this place.

Doing good things in the past (which he has) does not make you invulnerable. Anything that was "done to" Hostile (approved) by us (which does not include the random post changing or deleting), he has earned. He got exactly what any other member would have gotten. Let's sum up what we, as NL's, actually did:
- Warned him and suspended him for extensive trolling.
- Edited his signature because it contained sensitive information.

The rest (the random post editing and deleting) is a mix of Hostile exaggerating and stuff that was done by other people (who should not have done that).

Hostile, don't try to act like a martyr, it's obvious that you're not.

Whatever actions were taken "against" you recently you can attribute to yourself. It's obvious that we had some major issues (none of which were personal, by the way) recently and that's a pity. However we had reached a temporary solution and both sides agreed not to push the thing further. It was you who brought it back to Revora. Don't be surprised if people get tired and ignore you if you post the same complaints over and over again.
We didn't take any action of any kind even though you did away with the ceasefire two weeks after we made it, and neither did anyone else. We let you be. I remember we offered to have a second, reasonable, discussion on the topic if you wanted but you chose drama instead. Fortunately for Revora, nobody took the bait. Note that I'm not saying we did everything right. We made a lot of mistakes, and so did you.

You simply cannot make it look like we were harassing you to make you leave. It's not mobbing just because everybody else disagreed with you or didn't pick up your complaints and allegations of NL tyranny and dictatorship. If so many people disagree, you should maybe take a step back and reflect on your own behaviour before you assume the role of the innocent victim.

Also, don't portray the removal of red/green text, which are official job descriptions and are removed when the job is gone (unfortunately many admins forget to do it instantly), and the cleaning of signatures where you posted parts of secret discussions for the sake of your own propaganda as acts of censorship. It is the duty of admins to keep the forums more or less clean. I acknowledge that you're a special person in this community and will always be, but that does not grant you the right to do whatever you want.


This turn of events is very unfortunate and we still don't condone the arbitrary editing and deleting of posts. I can assure you that neither 2play nor me have any interest to create this kind of atmosphere here, thus we certainly wouldn't do something like that. One could see it coming but it's still sad to see you go. Nobody wanted that. I know you won't believe me, but not a single admin, not even 2play or me, wants to make you leave. Obviously we cannot change a decision that you've already made though.

You leave in dignity and with deepest respect for your accomplishments. You did a lot of hard work for Revora in the past and I'm sure that it will never be forgotten. Revora doesn't forget its history and the history doesn't forget Revora, both for good and for bad.

In that sense:
Goodbye, old friend.



In explanation for the public who don't know any of the background:

In Revora's history there has always been some fighting (both justified and unjustified) in the leadership, probably because so many different opinions and personalities collide.
The most recent issue was between 2playgames and me on one side and Hostile on the other. I will not repeat any of the arguments here, but you can imagine it lead to some heated discussions and bad blood. However, rest assured that we will find a solution everybody can live with. There is no doubt that we all love Revora so we will settle our disputes to ensure we have a solid, active network for our users and hostees to take part in.

I am confident that this particular problem is the very last part in a chain of conflicts that has been going on at Revora for almost as long as it existed, changing shapes and tone time and again. Of course there will always be problems in communities, people simply aren't made to agree on everything (how boring would that be otherwise?). But we are currently preparing measures to create a fixed foundation for leadership at Revora which should make sure that the future of Revora is safe.

....This topic puts a reminder of MY NAME BEING CHANGED WITHOUT MY APPROVAL OR EVEN TELLING ME. Any answers to THAT, hm?

But on this topic, at least they didn't edit your posts and left basically a message that made you sound like even MORE of a "jackass" or even a FAG. Or even someone that just sounds like you want to be flamed.

Mind explaining to me what those two issues are about? I'd appreciate if people sent me a PM if they have a particular problem instead of swallowing it and going riot in the next discussion. Obviously I can only try to fix of what I know.

Oh hostile,

Look don't take this to heart, But you do have a horrible habit of over reacting to everything.
Suck it in and get over it, its JUST a user account and a couple of posts, You weren't demoted from a respectable rank and stabbed in the back, honestly theres no real harm done.

And if you post something you shouldn't, it will be deleted.

Edited by DIGI_Byte, 24 September 2009 - 01:34 PM.

Well, I was trying to rebuke him in private to avoid this. He got suspended so he couldn't see it.

Seriously, though, I wasn't lying. Your sig, Hostile, was directly aimed at defamation of 2pg, was taken completely out of context to that end, and was generally not appropriate for the signature, particularly since the discussion was still ongoing.

Now, I'm no saint around here, and we've had our altercations on more times than I can count, and more than once both you and Banshee have banded up to stop me from doing what you just did and were banned for. The justification or lack thereof for my actions notwithstanding, they don't make yours any more right, or make your trolling attitude any less right. That's why I told you to fuck off on my grammar thread. If you insist on maintaining the attitude of feeling all hard-done-by because 2pg removed an inappropriate item from a signature, I won't miss you either. Because Revora can do without this bickering and infighting. Revora's leadership needs to sing from the same hymn-sheet, whatever that hymn-sheet might say.

I think now's the time to clarify my post in the grammar thread about Revora having never been a 'friendly' community since its genesis from CNC Guild/Origin merger. It's not had the right atmosphere about it because, truth told, it was two visions merged into one. Two groups wanting two totally different things and wanting to pull in two different directions. That tug-o-war is why nothing's ever been done, why I've been in endless flamewars with Hostile, Banshee and Detail ever since Revora began, why I've been warned, banned, deleted a division, given endless flak, lost my temper and, yes, been a complete and total grade-A cunt on a number of occasions. For me, the best thing that can happen is to have the leadership united in purpose. Even if that had meant that underhand tactics had to be used to drive one or the other faction out (they weren't; I don't believe that happened for a second from either side of this e-drama fence), I reckon it would have been to Revora's benefit. Even though I disagree wholeheartedly with Detail, Banshee and Hostile's visions of Revora, had they been the ones to hold the final cards it would've benefited Revora ultimately because they wanted the same or similar things for it.

As it stood, there's always been people tugging equally at both ends of the rope. And that has only been to Revora's detriment. It's stunted the network and community's growth, it's prevented it from going in any direction whatsoever, and it's why you've still got something of a messy feel about the place. Not as bad as it was, I'll admit, but progress has been slower than it could've been.

Now, over five years since its creation, Revora might actually find its feet, find a path and come to a conclusion of which direction it wants to travel. And in my humble opinion, if it took the removal of an obstacle in that path - even one as respected as you, Hostile - then so be it. We've never really got on, so I won't lie and say I'm sad to see you go. I will simply say that whatever happens, Revora certainly won't be the same without you.

For me, the best thing that can happen is to have the leadership united in purpose. Even if that had meant that underhand tactics had to be used to drive one or the other faction out (they weren't; I don't believe that happened for a second from either side of this e-drama fence), I reckon it would have been to Revora's benefit. Even though I disagree wholeheartedly with Detail, Banshee and Hostile's visions of Revora, had they been the ones to hold the final cards it would've benefited Revora ultimately because they wanted the same or similar things for it.

Do you know what I admire on you? You have balls when you need to say something, even if it is something horrible. I doubt that other people who did the same thing that you did would ever admit to the public that they did such thing, even if you guys did it since Revora was born.

And undoubtfully, Hostile was one of your biggest targets over these years, just like I was.


Unfortunately for you, I've always disagreed with your 'peacefully' way to deal with differences. I was not an 'Originer' as someone would claim, neither a 'Guilder'. I've always seen the merge of Origin and CnC Guild as an opportunity to make something really big in the web. I don't think that you have to sabotage the environment of the place or your colleagues to get your objectives done. And to be honest, I think you wasted too much of your time with that and you really haven't got much return from it at all. I had a vision of Revora as a huge modding network when I was a network leader. I never expected everyone to agree with it and naturally, this is what happened. There were many mods, but people created RPG divisions, got some focus with politics blogs, created writing competitions, hired servers to play Battlefield online and I've never sabotaged these things. In fact, I've adapted to that because I wasn't the supreme ruler of Revora and I understood that other people wanted the place to support the activities that they wanted to have fun with. So fine, I've actually defended these activities and still focused on supporting modding here. Unfortunately, I was getting sabotaged all the time, so it's not easy to get everything done and a certain group sabotages us. But I still managed to get a lot of things running and you can see it in the History section, although I had to do extremely disgusting things such as the massive fire in january 2007. I did not enjoy doing that at all, but it was necessary.


Anyway, since you admitted trying to drive Hostile, Detail and myself out using any means necessary, I don't think you really have any morale to rant at Hostile's attitude at all. While I agree that he needs to change his attitude from his recent posts, you also need to change your attitude by accepting differences between people. Revora is huge. And it can handle your objectives, even if part of it does other objectives, as long as you work together with people.

Well said banshee

Banshee, I never admitted trying to drive you out, because I never did such. I won't deny wishing you gone, but I will vehemently deny to the hilt that I had any intent to make it so. I was merely fighting my corner. All I admitted to was being a cunt. That post was probably a great big waste of time on your part, since it took my words totally out of context and didn't understand my meaning at all.

Revora could've been a huge modding network. That wasn't what I disagreed with. It was the way you wanted to do that I disagreed with. It was the environment of the place that you wanted to create that I disagreed with. It was yours (and Hostile's, and D's) politics that I disagreed with. And I think we'll both agree I made that quite clear.

I did not take it out of context. I've read the observation posted right after the words that I've spotlighted with red and bold. But if you wanna fool yourself pretending that your actions as a 'cunt' was not done to 'drive out the opposition', that's fine. It's up to you. You can believe in whatever you want. But you do not fool me and the experience that I had with your 'cunt' actions. So, no, I did not waste my time at all.

Look, I'm not going to get into yet more e-drama with you, nor will I descend to a petty accusative argument, because frankly I cannot be bothered.

I can only tell you how it is from my side just as you can only tell it from yours. If you don't want to believe me when I say that I wasn't trying to force you into leaving, then I can't make you. All I can say is that that wasn't what I was trying to do. I just disagreed strongly with whatever it was you were saying or doing at the time, and my actions at the time were the result. As I say, on many occasions I did wish you would bog off, but my actions were never fuelled by that. Not once. I can't make you believe me, and I won't waste my time. A local saying here is "No point keeping knocking when there is nobody home," meaning don't waste your time when you know you're clearly not going to get anywhere.

I freely admit I've never liked you. It's probably nothing in particular that you've done, either; you just rub me up the wrong way (figure of speech - nothing homoerotic in that before anyone starts ). Same way I probably do you. I imagine you bristle whenever you see me make a post somewhere. Whatever. That's cool. I don't much care either way. It's a waste of my time apologising for any past behaviours, because they're been, gone and history, and even if they weren't you wouldn't listen anyway and any acceptance would be as false as any statement by me saying I regretted anything I've ever done in my life (with the obvious exception of doing battle with an Audi). I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove some character reformation to you or anyone else either, because I don't feel the need. I tell things as I see them, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I appreciate that doesn't always win popularity points, and that many people can't get along with such direct unsubtlety. But it's how I am, how I ever have been and how I ever shall be. If I make apology for that fact, I am apologising for being me, and that just don't seem fair to me. But, in any case, here we are. You have not been directly or permanently harmed or scarred by anything I have ever said or done, and vice versa. And chances are, neither of us ever will be. So, at the end of the day, what is the point in this discussion anyway?

Now, you can continue with this if you choose, but I for one don't see much point in that. We both have better things to do, I'm sure. I'm happy to spar with you if you want, though.

This topic is beyond pathetic.

Holy shit, more Revora Internet drama. It's like old days, Banshee misinterpreting posts, CJ firing back, people bitching endlessly. Man, it's comforting... almost like white noise.

However, I agree with Matias. This thread is beyond pathetic.

Eric, lets face it, the only reason people have this attitude towards you is because you are way too controlling. You have contributed a lot to this place, we all did, but let it rest. You are here as much as I am, which is barely. And when you come back to pop in every now and again you throw a tantrum over peoples ideas. This happened probably so they can get these ideas done without you always shooting them down. You are not democratic at all, you need to learn to be. Compromise was never your forte and this was the result.

I have to say it, I don't care for this place anymore. That is pretty obvious. I'd rather be out doing something with my life, seeing the world rather than sitting indoors hunched over a computer all day. I don't know the full details of this alteration. I only returned home 3 days ago, but I think these guys need to be given a chance to do their thing and take this place forward. I was not asked to say what I said on the previous page, I said it because I genuinely believe we need to all take a step back and let them do it. Let's see what Revora becomes over the next few months / year before we even start thinking about criticising.