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Middle Weight Star Destroyers for the Empire


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#1 GabyBee

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:00 PM

Hey, first off I love the mod!

I've always kind of been intrigued by some of the Empire's smaller Star Destroyer type ships like the Vindicator-class and the Imperial II-class Frigate (Rand Ecliptic). I think these would make a great addition to this mod, and could give an Imperial fleet more of that overall wedge shaped look hehehe

#2 Kaleb Graff

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:40 PM

The problem with the Imperial-II, besides the fact that the name is not good (that's a star destroyer, not a frigate, and the same goes for the Victory) is the lack of canon stats. All the information is from Rebellion Era Campaign Guide, which is recent, and Saga books are bad in general for ships stats. Some ships have half of their actual batteries, others have all...
The Vindicator would be cool, but IIRC almost all were converted to interdictors, and we only know of one. Plus, a lot of the trouble is with getting models.

#3 GabyBee

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:57 PM

The Vindicator is said to be the "standard" 600-meter heavy cruiser of the Imperial Navy, implying that they were extensively used. There's a great model for it in the Homeworld 2 Warlords mod, whose creator I think contributes to PR.

As for the Imperial II-class frigate, I'd imagine it's supposed to be roughly the length of an Acclamator, the ship from which it's derived. It almost seems like an evolution of the Acclamator design where they tried to make a variant (Acclamator III?) with better hangar facilities but ended up modifying it to the point that it became it's own class. There's even two variants of the frigate seen in the comics, so it's possible we've actually seen both the Imperial I-class and Imperial II-class frigates.

There's a pretty decent model for X-Wing Alliance at this site: http://www.mtdindustries.com/xwa/

#4 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 06:11 PM

Thanks for joining the forums :mellow:. This won't be a big release for new ships, but I'd like to round out the tech trees at some point in the future. I really like the Vindicator-class for the sake of completeness, its weird armament, and carrier potential. I should be able to work with the Class II stats from RECG - it looks like 16 turbolasers, 16 turboions, 16 point-defense lasers, 16 tractor beams. Might be pretty similar to the Acclamator line though... it really seems to be a spin-off the more I look at it.

#5 GabyBee

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 06:45 PM

How about doing something like making the Class I and Class II Frigates, and having them replace Acclamators in the tech tree around tech 2 or 3?

#6 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 06:58 PM

No, they're not similar enough to replace the Acclamator. You just can't go from 0.6x hyperdrive to 4x in the same line in that order.

#7 Tropical Bob

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:34 PM

Well the tech for the Acclamator goes towards a sort of cruiser-bomber. The Vindicator could be a sort of overlap (Such as the Imperial and Tector having similar-ish roles, as well as the Reef Home and Liberty) that tends towards an all-purpose mid-size cruiser-carrier rather than the cruiser-bomber. Does the Empire really even have any dedicated carrier below capital class?

Edited by Tropical Bob, 13 June 2010 - 08:34 PM.


#8 GabyBee

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 09:04 PM

The Imperial II-class Frigate might be considered a cruiser-carrier depending on how it's configured. It's implied that it has very extensive hangar facilities on board, even if it doesn't always utilize it. The Rand Ecliptic only carried 16 TIE Fighters I think, but the Rebellion Era Campaign Guide lists the class' fighter capacity at 36 TIE Fighters and 36 TIE Interceptors with 2 Lambda shuttles and other various support craft.

Even the Vindicator could be considered a cruiser-carrier. Like the Imperial II-class Frigate, it has the capacity to carry a full wing (72) of starfighters, though it's typically configured for much smaller numbers.

I'd imagine both ships had similar starfighter capacities as ISDs but due to their size were unable to carry any planetary assault troops and equipment.

There's also the Escort Carrier:

http://starwars.wiki.../Escort_carrier

#9 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 03:11 AM

I'd argue that the Vindicator typically carries a wing, otherwise you're saying there's no loss of hangar capacity from adding 4 gravity wells.

#10 GabyBee

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:57 AM

I'd say in their "frontline" configuration the Vindicator would be loaded up with a full wing of TIEs. But like the Imperial II-class frigates, they were probably used in large numbers for patrol duties and would have their starfighter loadouts lowered significantly. The hangar bays would then be used for functions relating to their patrol duties, like for holding and inspecting smaller freighters.

#11 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 05:20 AM

I probably wasn't very clear. I was talking in game context, as in it should have the raw space to fit 72 fighters. Whether or not each individual ship is configured to carry that many TIEs or is even at full operational capacity is beyond the scope of what EaW is able to deal with. In other words, if we did a Vindicator, it would have six squadrons by default.

#12 Tropical Bob

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:47 PM

I'm sure the fighter wing sized hangar space does take into account some extra spacing set aside for shuttles and things. How is a commander going to conduct an inspection via shuttle if the whole hangar is going to be taken up by TIE Fighters?

#13 GabyBee

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 06:51 PM

Believe it or not I haven't gotten to a point where I've had to use reinforcements in a defensive battle (still working on getting the AI working).

But....

Do space stations still provide a reinforcement Acclamator like in the stock EaW? If they do, maybe you could change it to a Vindicator and have the reinforcement version of the Vindicator only carry two TIE squadrons. That way it could represent a "patrol" warship that answers a distress call or something?

Otherwise yeah I agree that Vindicators should be outfitted with the full wing of 72 TIEs.

Just a thought.

#14 Tropical Bob

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:31 PM

Space stations don't currently provide any reinforcements. It could be an interesting idea, though, to represent nearby warships answering a distress call of sorts.

One idea for Vindicator complements is that upgrading the ship into newer variants could increase the complement from a starting 24 to the full 72. That way, it kind of represents the mobilization of it from more of a patrol ship role to that of a full-on warship.

#15 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 02:01 AM

I don't like the implications of starship reinforcements. If you're completely in charge of the Empire, where are these ships coming from?

Too bad you can't slowly reinforce from nearby systems in tactical. I think it would be fairly easy to code an arrival delay into reinforcements based on distance, connecting hyperlanes, and hyperdrive modifier. Take it a step further and only allow out-system reinforcements to become available after a wait based on the speed of a hyperwave transmission. Sigh...

#16 evilbobthebob

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 07:25 AM

That's easy enough to do with a Lua script. In fact I believe someone implemented a similar system when they were testing the exchange of global variables between tactical and GC game modes.

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#17 Guest_sargeantsandwich_*

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 02:14 AM

Being able to bring in out of system reinforcements is one of the things i've always wanted to see in eaw.
it makes so you can have a sector fleet, and use that instead of having to have individual fleets covering each planet. i hate it when i lose a planet to an attack i wasn't aware of, or even just lose a space station, because I wasn't covering that planet, and I have a huge fleet in a nearby system.
the New Republic used that idea, having sector bases to cover entire sectors.

#18 Stormhawk

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 11:47 AM

That's easy enough to do with a Lua script. In fact I believe someone implemented a similar system when they were testing the exchange of global variables between tactical and GC game modes.


As it seems 1.2 is just about wrapping up and brainstorming for 1.3 seems underway, I kind of wanted to bump this idea for that release. I think having an option to bring reinforcements from nearby systems would make Galactic Conquest much much cooler and much more realistic.

#19 DaveAshton

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 07:27 AM

I think having an option to bring reinforcements from nearby systems would make Galactic Conquest much much cooler and much more realistic.

I disagree.

The way I see it, the actual laser slinging is done in real time, whereas the galactic overview is massively accelerated to make the game playable (who wants to buy a Star Destroyer today and then wait until June to actually use it :grin: ).

Bear in mind that you now gain credits weekly, not daily as in vanilla, and also how long it takes ships to move from one system to another. As far as your ships' crews are concerned, it probably takes them several days to move from one system to another, so being able to move a fleet from (for example) Anaxes to Kuat to help you in a scrap in a matter of minutes is ludicrous.

#20 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 06:20 PM

The way I see it, the actual laser slinging is done in real time, whereas the galactic overview is massively accelerated to make the game playable.

True. 60 seconds = 1 GSC week = 5 GSC days. Any kind of reinforcements would have to account for the discrepancy.



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