Some of those mysteries have been explored already although not really in much depth. The two droid species are implied to be the Silentium and the Abominor who fought a war without any regard for the native organic species of the galaxy (although I don't really know if you could call it a war when one species can dstroy Imperial cruisers and the other is foiled by R2-D2 and C-3PO, although they did bring down the World Devastators....).

As you mentioned their living homeworld gave them gifts and they fought back, driving both species from the galaxy. However the sweet taste of victory led them to pursue a violent crusade to purge the galaxy of all technology, resulting in the enslavement of several cultures and the extinction of others. Eventually, with much of the galaxy under their control, they turned on each other in a brutal civil war that destroyed much of the galaxy including their homeworld. How this happened is unknown (probably the Y'ogand's Core tactic).

It was known that the war ended due to Y'ogand using this tactic to slay Warmaster Steng, but the galaxy was left in ruins and when Yuuzhan;tar was destroyed the symbiosis they shared with the planet resulted in them being cut off from the Force and them constantly experiencing pain (a phenomenon they interpreted as some kind of penance). Regardless a bunch of dead planets and debris fields leaves little room to kick your feet up so they were forced to look elsewhere.

That's basically all the known history. It definately needs more expansion in future, although their own history remains largely unknown to them anyways. Maybe some novels set in that actual era would work.

Well there's some stuff I didn't know. Probably because one source was a kids' show and the other is a series of books I've never seen. I think I stumbled across the two droid species' pages once, but didn't pay much mind. I don't remember the Cremlevian War, though. It sounds familiar, but I don't know if I heard of all the bits of history in it.

I'm hesitant to agree on the Abominor and Silentium being the direct cause of the Vong though. For one, like I said, those are obscure references, and one of them is quite questionable (Being that it's a kids' show and all), even if everything meshes together decently. Partly because there's this quote by Harrar:

The ancient texts are unclear. It appears we were invaded by a race that was more technological than animate. We called on the gods for protection, and they came to our aid, providing us with the knowledge we needed to convert our living resources to weapons. We defeated the threat, and, empowered by our victory, we gradually became conquerors of other species and civilizations.

It mentions one race, and that it was more technological than animate. That kind of wording makes me think of some sort of cyborg (A la the Borg, of course) than droid. Some sort of race that evolved to the point that it began to replace itself with robotics, which could also explain the Yuuzhan Vong hatred of technology. Rather than a long-dead memory of invasion driving it, it could be a reminder to them that eventually technology could overwrite life. To a completely organic civilization, that could be rather scary, especially if the cyborg had tried to assimilate the Vong and Yuuzhan'tar, much like the Borg do as well.

The same could be said of the Abominor's harvesting of all life to power itself, of course, but that reeks more of sacrifice to a greater being, which the Vong do for their gods on a constant basis. It seems like they would loathe to imitate such an act of a mechanical being. And the mention of one race, and animation secondary to machination, could just be from the historical confusion they were left in.

But these are all just the theoretical musings of a poor little fanboy. Such is the reasoning I think they could set novels and/or graphic novels in that era. It would clear up so many things.

As far as Yuuzhan'tar goes, it could have been attacked by one of the many technological civilizations of their galaxy that came under attack, rather than it being destroyed by themselves. I would think a society so reverent of their own planet would avoid conflict towards it. Unless, perhaps, the planet exiled them, and they exacted vengeance on it.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 21 November 2010 - 01:52 AM.

I'm hesitant to agree on the Abominor and Silentium being the direct cause of the Vong though. For one, like I said, those are obscure references, and one of them is quite questionable (Being that it's a kids' show and all), even if everything meshes together decently. Partly because there's this quote by Harrar:

The actual source for these being the species isn't the shows themselves. The Silentium and Abominor both appeared separately and were later linked by Dan Wallace in the New Essential Guide to Droids which expanded on their backstories. In it is said that both droid species waged a war which devastated much of their home galaxy before being driven off by the native organics. However the most important fact is that both species are extragalactic species foreign to the main galaxy and that in his endnotes Wallace stated that he was strongly implying these were the species from the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy.

The actual source for these being the species isn't the shows themselves. The Silentium and Abominor both appeared separately and were later linked by Dan Wallace in the New Essential Guide to Droids which expanded on their backstories. In it is said that both droid species waged a war which devastated much of their home galaxy before being driven off by the native organics. However the most important fact is that both species are extragalactic species foreign to the main galaxy and that in his endnotes Wallace stated that he was strongly implying these were the species from the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy.

I read as much on Wookie. Just saying that taking a plot mechanic from a kids' show and integrating it into canon like such is pretty lame, as Zeta1127 so implied with the start of the thread.

Plus, what are the chances that all three extra-galactic species are both from the same galaxy, and migrated the same direction into the same galaxy? It can be explained for the droid species, since it could technically be explained by claiming the Abominor were chasing the Silentium to end the war, even after both were driven from their galaxy (Or vice versa). But the Yuuzhan Vong also emigrating in the same direction untold years later? 'The Force works in mysterious ways', but it's still pretty dubious.

I agree PR, the Subjugator and the Pelta are alright.

Not being able to stand TCW is completely justified, Kacen, they have gone way too far with it. I am nearly to the point of declaring TCW completely non-canon in my eyes if they do anymore rot like the Tantive IV/Sundered Heart nonsense. Consistently going against the previously established canon is simply bad practice.

They can do stuff like create a dubious link between 3 extra-galactic races as they have done, but they can't seem to fix the technical disasters they caused by letting authors with no technical know-how write many of the books.

Edited by Zeta1127, 21 November 2010 - 05:41 PM.

Guys, let's face it, George Lucas doesn't care about the EU. He'll use shit from it if he feels like it, but he has no qualms about disregarding it.

I mean, look at Empire at War. There were tons of ground vehicles that were already established in the EU they could have used but instead they "make up shit" on the spot, like the T4B, which was based on the C&C Mammoth Tank.

Hell I'd rather them put the shit back from Force Commander in all honesty...that might be the nostalgia speaking, but also the fact I have a bias towards older things when it comes to Star Wars.

I mean, look at Empire at War. There were tons of ground vehicles that were already established in the EU they could have used but instead they "make up shit" on the spot, like the T4B, which was based on the C&C Mammoth Tank.

Actually, I think that has more to do with copyright law than GL. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't adequately explain it, but remember, the units were originally supposed to be Carrack-class, Dodonna-class (presumably), 1-M Repulsortank, TIE Crawler, SPHA-T, MPTL (presumably), T1-B, and T3-B. All of those names can be found in data or strings. I'm guessing that by inventing the T4-B, PG somehow gets an extra kickback from its use, such as in RECG. Really about the only thing Lucas had to do with EaW was specifying that Vader couldn't land on Tatooine in the singleplayer campaign.

Funny you should say that about Vader, seeing as he was in the Mos Eisley mission of Battlefront.

I mean, look at Empire at War. There were tons of ground vehicles that were already established in the EU they could have used but instead they "make up shit" on the spot, like the T4B, which was based on the C&C Mammoth Tank.

Actually, I think that has more to do with copyright law than GL. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't adequately explain it, but remember, the units were originally supposed to be Carrack-class, Dodonna-class (presumably), 1-M Repulsortank, TIE Crawler, SPHA-T, MPTL (presumably), T1-B, and T3-B. All of those names can be found in data or strings. I'm guessing that by inventing the T4-B, PG somehow gets an extra kickback from its use, such as in RECG. Really about the only thing Lucas had to do with EaW was specifying that Vader couldn't land on Tatooine in the singleplayer campaign.

The only reason the T4-B is based on the C&C Mammoth Tank is because many of the guys from Petroglyph are former Westwood Studios employees.

Funny you should say that about Vader, seeing as he was in the Mos Eisley mission of Battlefront.

That could be considered gameplay mechanics, evilbobthebob, I mean look at Battlefront 2, Vader is in Hero Assault there.

Ok now here's 2 arguments I draw the line with:
1. Insulting someone for making something new (like the T4-B)
2. Insulting someone for not including something on your wishlist of things to see. (like the Mandator)

With the first point the creators have the absolute authority to make something completely new and I quite like it when they do. It adds something new to the Star Wars universe and prevents us from seeing the same old thing over and over again. The only time it's ok to complain about this is when that new idea is something that contradicts something that's already been established, therefore meaning that they shouldn't have made it or it's a completely rubbish idea (like Jar-Jar....)

As for the second point yes it would be cool if they did this or that. There has never EVER been a single Star Wars movie, game, show, novel or comic where I haven't gone well I liked (or didn't like) this but it would have been cool if they threw this in, eg. deleted scenes and cut content (the bane of my existence). I would LOVE to see a Mandator in action, I would LOVE to see under-appearing characters like Willard, Pashna, Hudsol, Praji, Jir and others make more appearances, I would LOVE it if certain story arcs weren't cut from products due to time constraints and I would LOVE to see every ship that has never made an appearance be shown properly in some source somewhere. The fact of the matter is the creators of any new addition to the Star Wars universe are under NO obligation to do any of this. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely detest the fact that the Mandator is so under-represented and I assure you my wishlist is quite extensive. That said, it's not my story. If Lucas hired me I'd do heaps of these things but the fact is someone somewhere is gonna say "He had the perfect opportunity to do this. Why didn't he?" It's because you can't satisfy everyone's wishes.

Now that I've had my rant I'm gonna kick back, relax and go back to my area of expertise in finding new heroes. Wish me luck guys

You have to admit, though, that being lazy and not including previously confirmed and established ships in something, such as the Victory in all the visual aspects of the Clone Wars, for example, is something that shouldn't be taken lightly.

For example, if they make the Quaestor anything other than a previously established Star Battlecruiser class, there will be problems. The Shockwave is a real oddity, by the way it was described in Darksaber, I was under the impression it was an Imperial-class Star Destroyer, another fine example of bad authors at work. Apparently, Star Dreadnought and Star Dreadnaught are open season for the proper spelling, because both are used all over the place on Wookieepedia. Is it too much to ask to use one or the other not both?

Edited by Zeta1127, 22 November 2010 - 06:48 AM.

I know all this, and I wasn't speaking about George Lucas strictly. And yes, I know why it was based on the Mammoth tank, and the fact I hate C&C and think it's overrated garbage is what adds to my rage.

The fact of the matter is the creators of any new addition to the Star Wars universe are under NO obligation to do any of this. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely detest the fact that the Mandator is so under-represented and I assure you my wishlist is quite extensive. That said, it's not my story. If Lucas hired me I'd do heaps of these things but the fact is someone somewhere is gonna say "He had the perfect opportunity to do this. Why didn't he?" It's because you can't satisfy everyone's wishes.

There's a difference between not using one specific piece of continuity and not doing adequate research though. For the latter, I think the fans ought to complain because they've purchased an inferior product and there's really no reason for it. For example, I don't believe most of the technical problems with ship classes in the NJO were the result of style choices so much as poor execution. Why else would they choose to have two Republic-class units when there are hardly two characters in the entire galaxy with the same first name? If nothing else, authors could at least make better use of the expert community (many of whom are willing to work for free) like The Essential Atlas did.

I really just need to state how much I hate George Lucas now.

He's making tons of autistic baby cartoons and let's not forget that God forsaken Clone Wars movie.

Yadda Yadda Yadda, prequels suck except for Revenge of the Sith which was relatively fair.

But seriously, he's destroying everything. I can't even take the new shit seriously anymore. And my God, I am SICK of the Clone Wars...in fact I never cared about it in the first place. There's more G-Canon and T-Canon coverage of the Clone Wars than there is of the fucking Galactic Civil War. I mean, what the fuck?

I mean the guy made two clone wars series and a movie already.

I'm quite frankly totally infuriated. I'm an old school Star Wars fan, but I'm almost ashamed to say I'm a fan now to the average individual, because more people know about the prequels and the shitty childish TV series than they do about the honest to God great novels written by EU authors.

Edited by Kacen, 28 November 2010 - 05:05 AM.

The fact of the matter is the creators of any new addition to the Star Wars universe are under NO obligation to do any of this. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely detest the fact that the Mandator is so under-represented and I assure you my wishlist is quite extensive. That said, it's not my story. If Lucas hired me I'd do heaps of these things but the fact is someone somewhere is gonna say "He had the perfect opportunity to do this. Why didn't he?" It's because you can't satisfy everyone's wishes.

There's a difference between not using one specific piece of continuity and not doing adequate research though. For the latter, I think the fans ought to complain because they've purchased an inferior product and there's really no reason for it. For example, I don't believe most of the technical problems with ship classes in the NJO were the result of style choices so much as poor execution. Why else would they choose to have two Republic-class units when there are hardly two characters in the entire galaxy with the same first name? If nothing else, authors could at least make better use of the expert community (many of whom are willing to work for free) like The Essential Atlas did.

Now on that charge I can agree with you. When they don't throw something in it's annoying but not really a problem but when they don't do their research that annoys the poodoo out of me. Especially when they have 7 Imperial ships named Vengeance......

I really just need to state how much I hate George Lucas now.

He's making tons of autistic baby cartoons and let's not forget that God forsaken Clone Wars movie.

Yadda Yadda Yadda, prequels suck except for Revenge of the Sith which was relatively fair.

But seriously, he's destroying everything. I can't even take the new shit seriously anymore. And my God, I am SICK of the Clone Wars...in fact I never cared about it in the first place. There's more G-Canon and T-Canon coverage of the Clone Wars than there is of the fucking Galactic Civil War. I mean, what the fuck?

I mean the guy made two clone wars series and a movie already.

I'm quite frankly totally infuriated. I'm an old school Star Wars fan, but I'm almost ashamed to say I'm a fan now to the average individual, because more people know about the prequels and the shitty childish TV series than they do about the honest to God great novels written by EU authors.

I don't hate George Lucas, because without him the universe would never exist in the first place, but that doesn't mean I am not extremely irritated with the way some things have happened.

I don't like it when people single out the Prequels as being bad for the most part, because the six films are meant to be treated as one film. Though, I must admit that The Phantom Menace is seemingly boring, but it started the story the way it needed to be started, and how was Palpatine supposed to dismantle the Republic without the politics (a common complaint that really is unfounded considering the story was originally influenced by such events as the Third Reich and Watergate in the first place) in Attack of the Clones?

I am definitely unimpressed with this Clone Wars mania, when they are practically finding ways to make die-hard fans like me angry, with rot like letting a T-canon kid's cartoon show trump the great G-canon movies and the novels that are supposed to be nearly as authoritative as the movies, when G-canon supposedly trumps all. I am so mad that they screwed up the Strident-class's length.

The fact of the matter is the creators of any new addition to the Star Wars universe are under NO obligation to do any of this. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely detest the fact that the Mandator is so under-represented and I assure you my wishlist is quite extensive. That said, it's not my story. If Lucas hired me I'd do heaps of these things but the fact is someone somewhere is gonna say "He had the perfect opportunity to do this. Why didn't he?" It's because you can't satisfy everyone's wishes.

There's a difference between not using one specific piece of continuity and not doing adequate research though. For the latter, I think the fans ought to complain because they've purchased an inferior product and there's really no reason for it. For example, I don't believe most of the technical problems with ship classes in the NJO were the result of style choices so much as poor execution. Why else would they choose to have two Republic-class units when there are hardly two characters in the entire galaxy with the same first name? If nothing else, authors could at least make better use of the expert community (many of whom are willing to work for free) like The Essential Atlas did.

Now on that charge I can agree with you. When they don't throw something in it's annoying but not really a problem but when they don't do their research that annoys the poodoo out of me. Especially when they have 7 Imperial ships named Vengeance......

If they required authors, especially new ones, to do research so they don't make a mess like they did with NJO and new ships, it would solve a lot of big problems. Yeah, there are definitely way too many Imperial ships named Vengeance, but at least most of them are different classes.

If they required authors, especially new ones, to do research so they don't make a mess like they did with NJO and new ships, it would solve a lot of big problems. Yeah, there are definitely way too many Imperial ships named Vengeance, but at least most of them are different classes.

Not really. Of the 7 that are in Imperial service 5 of them are Imperial-class.

Yeah, too many of them are Imperial-class, but Jerec's series of ships is perfectly reasonable. The original Imperial I-class Vengeance, the replacement Imperial I-class Vengeance II, and his unique Star Dreadnought, Vengeance, are just fine.

Edited by Zeta1127, 28 November 2010 - 06:03 PM.

I don't like it when people single out the Prequels as being bad for the most part, because the six films are meant to be treated as one film. Though, I must admit that The Phantom Menace is seemingly boring, but it started the story the way it needed to be started, and how was Palpatine supposed to dismantle the Republic without the politics (a common complaint that really is unfounded considering the story was originally influenced by such events as the Third Reich and Watergate in the first place) in Attack of the Clones?

Two words: Yinchorri Uprising.

I don't like it when people single out the Prequels as being bad for the most part, because the six films are meant to be treated as one film. Though, I must admit that The Phantom Menace is seemingly boring, but it started the story the way it needed to be started, and how was Palpatine supposed to dismantle the Republic without the politics (a common complaint that really is unfounded considering the story was originally influenced by such events as the Third Reich and Watergate in the first place) in Attack of the Clones?

Two words: Yinchorri Uprising.

Palpatine had been doing that kind of stuff; manipulation and political maneuvering were Palpatine's specialty and methodology for galactic domination, and it worked too well.