Just received my copy of The Essential Guide to Warfare. I wanted to know what you think about it, those who have had the opportunity to take a look at its contents. From what I've seen, it's great, I just wanted there to be ship stats, and there aren't. However, it is very well researched, the illustrations are amazing, and it introduces new ship classes which I found to be great. Specifically for the mod, I found references to the Bulwark Mark III, which I think should be looked at more closely, and there is an illustration of a battle with Rebel Providence-class Carriers. The Endurance Fleet Carrier is given a new depiction, we find references to the KDY Mandator-classes and Procurator-class too, and some characteristics such as their lengths. All in all, the book is a must have for any ship geek of the SW universe. I'll add more as I read more.
PS: Unfortunately, Zsinj's Iron Fist is confirmed to be Executor-class, which raises some issues that need to be explained.
The Essential Guide to Warfare
Started by
anakinskysolo
, Apr 07 2012 07:20 PM
102 replies to this topic
#3
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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:17 PM
Haven't picked it up yet, but it sounds like they avoided the real tough questions. Like why the Home One's official length is 1300 m. Or why no source can seem to reconcile the ISD's armament between roleplaying stats and movie prop. Or why the official TIE line dimensions all size the ball cockpit differently. I could go on...
Edited by Phoenix Rising, 07 April 2012 - 11:17 PM.
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Zeta1127
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:45 AM
Or why the Eclipse and the Sovereign-class SSDs aren't Star Dreadnoughts like the Executor-class, or the extremely underpowered armament and discrepancies in length with Mon Calamari Star Cruisers in general.
Edited by Zeta1127, 08 April 2012 - 02:46 AM.
"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie
#5
anakinskysolo
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:47 AM
Jason Fry: "The far bigger reason was that I thought “Military” sounded like a book that would be really heavy on hardcore quantitative stuff — unit organizations, warships specifications, fleet data, and so forth. I have immense respect for that way of looking at the subject, but I wasn’t interested in writing that kind of book — and, frankly, I thought the audience for such a book would be relatively small." Damn!
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:57 AM
Actually there are some answers to those questions in the guide.
Well that one they kinda dodged and answered... It IS a MC80 , picture and every thing (sorry PR)... and they were deep space exploration vessels that got away from the battle of Mon Calamari (1st); but here's what is written on page 180: "... A typical MC80 of the Civil War era measured around twelve hundred meters and was armed with forty-eight turbolasers, twenty ion cannons, and thirty-six starfighters."
It goes on to answer why they have those good shields and gives context LOT'S OF IT... But telling more wouldn't be fair to the authors, now, wouldn't it...
Sorry, I forgot to address this one:
They are now.
why the Home One's official length is 1300 m
Well that one they kinda dodged and answered... It IS a MC80 , picture and every thing (sorry PR)... and they were deep space exploration vessels that got away from the battle of Mon Calamari (1st); but here's what is written on page 180: "... A typical MC80 of the Civil War era measured around twelve hundred meters and was armed with forty-eight turbolasers, twenty ion cannons, and thirty-six starfighters."
It goes on to answer why they have those good shields and gives context LOT'S OF IT... But telling more wouldn't be fair to the authors, now, wouldn't it...
Sorry, I forgot to address this one:
Or why the Eclipse and the Sovereign-class SSDs aren't Star Dreadnoughts like the Executor-class
They are now.
Edited by P.O._210877, 08 April 2012 - 04:00 AM.
If it's hard then it's worth doing.
- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.
Actarus
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:25 AM
This really needed to be the book that went back to the original WEG ship block stats and overruled them in favor of G-canon as necessary. It's a shame if it isn't. For example, should the Nebulon-B be 300 m (it's depicted larger in Alone Together and TFU II); if so, where are the 24 fighters kept? What's the length of the A-wing (hint: it's not 9.6 m in RotJ)? How many cannons does the TIE/in actually have (movie model has 10)?
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:43 AM
Like anakinskysolo quoted up there, it's not a book that caters to the huberfans' obsessions. 
I believe that we're going to have to wait for the new RPG stuff to come out. But you're right about the re-alignment on G-canon. It's the spirit and the "flavor" of Star Wars that should be the final trunk cards in the end.
I believe that we're going to have to wait for the new RPG stuff to come out. But you're right about the re-alignment on G-canon. It's the spirit and the "flavor" of Star Wars that should be the final trunk cards in the end.
If it's hard then it's worth doing.
- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.
Actarus
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:52 AM
So they are actually called Star Dreadnoughts by name, because they if they aren't explicitly stated to be, Wookieepedia will never accept it. Wookieepedia is already calling the new Mandator III just a dreadnought.They are now.
"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie
#11
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:05 AM
I thought you meant in the same niche in the classification system. So, no, they are not mentioned as Star Dreadnought but dreadnought. Sorry... 
But, then again, so is the Executor...
But, then again, so is the Executor...
Edited by P.O._210877, 08 April 2012 - 06:08 AM.
If it's hard then it's worth doing.
- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.
Actarus
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:25 AM
im confused as to which stats you use and all that. do the RPG stats have more or better information than other sources or something along those lines?
like the speed of the T65A being 80 MGLT's. being an X-Wing Alliance fan, id assumed the T65 to have a speed of 100 MGLT, to be on par with the standard TIE, although you did drop that speed to 80 as well for the initial model
like the speed of the T65A being 80 MGLT's. being an X-Wing Alliance fan, id assumed the T65 to have a speed of 100 MGLT, to be on par with the standard TIE, although you did drop that speed to 80 as well for the initial model
Edited by Phoenix Rising, 08 April 2012 - 08:13 AM.
Merged.
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:38 AM
The concept of MGLT is from RotJ production. Whether an ILM chart constitutes a G-canon source or not is ambiguous.
Many other aspects of movie units that people take for granted actually come from the EU; if it's the OT, that most likely means the original D6 RPG from WEG. Some poor, arbitrary decisions on how ships in the films work are reflected in the EU to this day because LFL refuses to override the mistakes. Most of the info in D6 is brilliant, but when it intersects with what's on the screen, it's usually a headache. See here.
Many other aspects of movie units that people take for granted actually come from the EU; if it's the OT, that most likely means the original D6 RPG from WEG. Some poor, arbitrary decisions on how ships in the films work are reflected in the EU to this day because LFL refuses to override the mistakes. Most of the info in D6 is brilliant, but when it intersects with what's on the screen, it's usually a headache. See here.
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johnchm.10
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:17 AM
point taken.
side note. im going through EGW, and im looking right at the Nebula and Endurance. any chance of them getting into 1.3 or 1.4? now that theres finally a link between the 2 classes of ships, a common base model could be used, with modifications being made from the Nebula to turn it into an Endurance. Endurance seems to be a nice counterpart to the Venator, what with its 9-18 squadrons of fighters. given that a standard NR squadron is generally twice as effective as its rivals, i'd think that even being on the lower end of that spectrum would be fair. figure 3 squadrons of K-wings, and 2 each for upgraded A, E, and X-wings as the bare minimum,
side note. im going through EGW, and im looking right at the Nebula and Endurance. any chance of them getting into 1.3 or 1.4? now that theres finally a link between the 2 classes of ships, a common base model could be used, with modifications being made from the Nebula to turn it into an Endurance. Endurance seems to be a nice counterpart to the Venator, what with its 9-18 squadrons of fighters. given that a standard NR squadron is generally twice as effective as its rivals, i'd think that even being on the lower end of that spectrum would be fair. figure 3 squadrons of K-wings, and 2 each for upgraded A, E, and X-wings as the bare minimum,
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:38 AM
ah. incidently, now that the Praetor mark 2 is the class that Admiral Giel's flagship belongs to, any chance of him being added as a hero? i know, his flagship is not exactly how you guys have the Praetor (how did you get that design?) in the game, but i think you could get away with it.
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:22 PM
So according to the last pages of the Guide the Assertor-class Star Dreadnought and the Bellator-class Star Dreadnought are considered canon to ? Btw the Assertor looks awsome it is really terrifying with those hundreds of batteries on its surface!!!
? Btw the Assertor looks awsome it is really terrifying with those hundreds of batteries on its surface!!!
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:10 PM
I've nothing against the original Marvel comics, john, so there's no reason why you couldn't see Mils Giel at some point. I usually try to only add heroes that are going to show up in the historical campaigns to prevent feature creep though.
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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:05 AM
I think it's just an upscaled ISD, which isn't a great way to do it. I've been meaning to look for a volume calculator plugin for 3D Studio, assuming one exists. Maybe I'll do that now...
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