well now that the Bellator and Assertor are cannon above ISD ships can begin to fulfill niche roles

I've nothing against the original Marvel comics, john, so there's no reason why you couldn't see Mils Giel at some point. I usually try to only add heroes that are going to show up in the historical campaigns to prevent feature creep though.

i only suggested him due to the ship. although, seeing as how he is the commander of a massive fleet, commanding from a large warship, and said fleet was put together for an important mission, he wouldnt be the worst hero to add

I think it's just an upscaled ISD, which isn't a great way to do it. I've been meaning to look for a volume calculator plugin for 3D Studio, assuming one exists. Maybe I'll do that now...

Volume Calculator? is that supposed to help calculate how much everything should be scaled up/down? im a bit ignorant on the subject

regarding the Assertor, i believe this short video sums up my reaction (the PG reaction, lol.)

something tells me that the stats for this beast would be ludacris-speed grade insanity
for those of you who havent seen Spaceballs, well shame on you
the hanger on the Assertor must be large enough to carry 4-15 Dreadnoughts (cant tell without stats on the hanger, or at least the ship herself) without interfering with the launching of TIEs or Shuttles or the like.
as for the Bellator, yes. i want that. lol. that looks like a good midline between the Praetor and the Eclipse/Executor, assuming the size is somewhere in between it. the Assertor looks like a more optimized Executor (i know that there is a resemblance between it and early concepts for the Executor) although id rather have the Bellator as the flagship of my fleets. looks like it would be easier on the economy, while still having enough power to wipe out almost anything or everything id face.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 09 April 2012 - 07:44 AM.

Well according to fractalsponge1=Ansel Hsiao (the creator of both Assertor and Bellator classes)

The Assertor has 2x the firepower as the Executor class Only the Eclips has bigger potential reactor volume, the Sovereign is equal to the Assertor. Although the Executor has bigger number of cannons but the ship is considerd to be a "glass cannon"..... The main problem of the Executor class is that only a small number of cannons can fire on one target at a time due to the "faild" placement of the batteries. "the 5000 vannons were placed roughly all over the ship to better cover every direction with only roughly 8 weapons able to fire at anyone target". + the shield projectores are few in number and if one is overwhelmedthe other can't mintain the shield(s) All of these whould have been corrected in the MKII. Which was never built only a "paper project"

http://bbs.stardestr...242676#p3242676

im not discounting the Assertor, i would just rather have the Bellator as the flagship of my fleet. it looks like it would have better maneuverability then that of the Assertor, while still having enough firepower to take on a small group of MC-80s with only its embarked craft as support

that said, i prefer smaller fleets of high quality vessels. a Quadruple mounted Turbolaser Turret is a bit less expensive then that of 2 identical Dual mounted Turbolaser Turrets whos combined output is equal to that of the Quad Turbolaser, when you get down to the guts of it. 1 gun requires fewer crew and less power, resources, etc.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 10 April 2012 - 06:01 AM.

Well according to fractalsponge1=Ansel Hsiao (the creator of both Assertor and Bellator classes)

The Assertor has 2x the firepower as the Executor class Only the Eclips has bigger potential reactor volume, the Sovereign is equal to the Assertor. Although the Executor has bigger number of cannons but the ship is considerd to be a "glass cannon"..... The main problem of the Executor class is that only a small number of cannons can fire on one target at a time due to the "faild" placement of the batteries. "the 5000 vannons were placed roughly all over the ship to better cover every direction with only roughly 8 weapons able to fire at anyone target". + the shield projectores are few in number and if one is overwhelmedthe other can't mintain the shield(s) All of these whould have been corrected in the MKII. Which was never built only a "paper project"

http://bbs.stardestr...242676#p3242676

Now that wouldn't make any sense. If they were in possession of starships of that firepower, there is no way they wouldn't have appeared in the EU until now, and it doesn't look really plausible for the Rebels to have won the war at all...

I must point out that these are musings and opinions i.e. fannon. And, besides, no convention exists in regard to how ships make use of their power systems. Sadly, I think that that kind of literature will never be available; perhaps, in the future, it'll be addressed as part of a RPG system or game mechanics on a video game. And even then, how reliable will those be?

Well according to fractalsponge1=Ansel Hsiao (the creator of both Assertor and Bellator classes)

The Assertor has 2x the firepower as the Executor class Only the Eclips has bigger potential reactor volume, the Sovereign is equal to the Assertor. Although the Executor has bigger number of cannons but the ship is considerd to be a "glass cannon"..... The main problem of the Executor class is that only a small number of cannons can fire on one target at a time due to the "faild" placement of the batteries. "the 5000 vannons were placed roughly all over the ship to better cover every direction with only roughly 8 weapons able to fire at anyone target". + the shield projectores are few in number and if one is overwhelmedthe other can't mintain the shield(s) All of these whould have been corrected in the MKII. Which was never built only a "paper project"

http://bbs.stardestr...242676#p3242676

Now that wouldn't make any sense. If they were in possession of starships of that firepower, there is no way they wouldn't have appeared in the EU until now, and it doesn't look really plausible for the Rebels to have won the war at all...

these are the little black blobs orbiting Byss in dark empire; you're also ignoring the whole Death Star aspect where the great power of the Force prevails over the insignificant ability to destroy a planet

aside from the fact that theyre fannon, the Assertor and Bellator seem like strategic assets, like the Executor. as in the kind of assets you don't normally commit unless you have a really important mission/ large fleet action/ etc.

Now that wouldn't make any sense. If they were in possession of starships of that firepower, there is no way they wouldn't have appeared in the EU until now, and it doesn't look really plausible for the Rebels to have won the war at all...

Well the Assertor and Bellator were fanon ships until they appeared in the The Essential Guide to Warfare book. So from April 3. 2012. they are considered canon At the moment we only have little to none info about its firepower and shiled ect. The only fact is that its power generation is approximately equivalent to 400 ISD's. Beside these we have the post (which i linked) there are some infos about the ships capabilities by its creator. But some part is already retconed at the end it says "The first ships would have come into service after Operation Shadow Hand, as a supplement and eventual replacement for the Sovereigns, but delayed due to the general (internal) collapse of the offensive and political chaos." So according to this no ship was built. But in the The Essential Guide to Warfare we can see several ships (one is even named Wrath) while others can be seen at the Validusia Naval Station.

Regarding the Rebels winning the war: G.L. said at one interview that the Rebels won because the good guys had to win.....

they may have just been in sectors where the rebels werent operating, but were guardships for certain areas, testbeds for new technologies, thus not full fledged warships, or destroyed in the internal fighting from Endor onwards. their range may be impeded/supplies limited due to the Reactor being so large that it takes up a LOT of room, or they could have been part of that Deep Core Reserve Fleet, but not called up due to various reasons. its also possible that not as much concern was given over them compared to the Executor. Executor has more sheer firepower than almost everything short of the Eclipse and Sovereign-class Star Dreadnoughts, and the various other superweapons (i call them superweapons on account of the superlasers mounted on the prow).

which begs the question
could the Executor be considered a superweapon?
granted its weapons are entirely conventional, meaning Turbolasers and Ions, as well as Missiles, but she came close to rivaling the combined firepower and shield power of the entire rebel fleet that was deployed at Endor, minus the Liberty and i think it was the Maria that was destroyed by the second Death Star, if not rivaling the fleet pound for pound or even OUTGUNNING it. she was prohibitively expensive, and had some easily remedied flaws, such as relocating some of the dorsal guns to the relatively clean ventral surface

The Assertor-class Star Dreadnought (and its named representative, the Wrath), the Bellator-class Star Battlecruiser, the Secutor-class Star Destroyer, the Altor-class replenishment ship, and Naval Station Validusia are impressive designs that definitely deserved to be canonized, though I wish that Fractalsponge had been given the opportunity to provide proper technical information for them.

Also, the Second Battle of Orinda was a sight to behold.

Edited by Zeta1127, 10 April 2012 - 05:45 PM.

The 3D models are detailed enough that you could quite easily work out decent technical stats from them. Certainly nearly all the guns are modelled on those classes. I'm personally not a fan of them, though, because covering dorsal and ventral surface with gun turrets would only introduce many weak spots into the shielding and armour of the ships. That and they seem like exercises in MORE DAKKA.

What I dislike is the way everyone seems to have to say well this ship was even stronger than the executor. The executor was total overkill in itself and you think how long they had to make such ships and it really is not likely they made many of them. But as the expanded universe expanded, they became more and more common. Yet at the time the plain ISD was really considered an awesome vessel with very few things being able to stand up against one. Guess this is one of the reasons I like the earlier stuff since things were not quite so overboard. The cost of these star dreadnaughts really makes them impractical though although Vader having one as a command ship at least gives some reason for it.

So from April 3. 2012. they are considered canon

You are right about that, the problem is Fractalspounge's musings are not cannon however.

As for the use and prevalence of the new ships, the guide states that Battlecruisers were mostly put aside by the Imperial Navy because of their impracticality at effectively providing space superiority (too big and expensive for one ship, better to have more Star Destroyers and cover more range). That said, they were used as spearheads for particularly important missions.The Dreadnoughts were terror weapons, so, impractical for conventional naval warfare but supremely effective at keeping Sectors in line. So their cost alone relegated them to service in VERY rich Sectors, and anchors for the most massive fleets and special commands.

What I dislike is the way everyone seems to have to say well this ship was even stronger than the executor. The executor was total overkill in itself and you think how long they had to make such ships and it really is not likely they made many of them. But as the expanded universe expanded, they became more and more common. Yet at the time the plain ISD was really considered an awesome vessel with very few things being able to stand up against one. Guess this is one of the reasons I like the earlier stuff since things were not quite so overboard. The cost of these star dreadnaughts really makes them impractical though although Vader having one as a command ship at least gives some reason for it.

You're forgetting they have an entire galaxy at their disposal, sure a mile long ship seems big when we only have the earth to compare it to, but in space, with the vast resources they have, ships would naturally grown bigger to allow for larger reactors and storage space. I think the size of ships has been understated tbh, multiple mile length ships would be very common.

But the question is, why would you require ships of that scale? Many planetary populations apparently don't have the technology or manpower to oppose a single Star Destroyer and its complement; anything larger seems wasteful. Sure, since the Imperial Navy is partially designed to fight off the Yuzahn Vong, you want some decent firepower, but having hundreds of multi-mile destroyers for an Empire that is mostly unified by economics and the power of the Emperor? Doesn't seem necessary to me.

heres a thought.its possible that the Emperor was trying to make a defense network for his Empire to oppose the Vong, to the point where every planet had a capital ship like a Victory or Imperator, as well as a massive roving fleet or several smaller fleets.Worlds of greater importance would have better defenses, meaning larger ships, or more of them. for example, a wold like Tattooine, would rate a single Imperial or Victory, whereas Carida would rate a Praetor or Bellator due to its status as a Military Academy, and a Capitol of a Sector or Over-sector would rate something larger. and Imperial Center would rate an Executor

I doubt that the Emperor planned the military to that extent. That kind of specific detail would have been the decisions of admirals and grand admirals. The Emperor would make more general overarching requests, I think. Then again, he is an all-powerful Sith Lord so that kind of delegation may not be completely necessary. Incidentally the reason I say that the Imperial Navy was designed to repel the Vong is a comment in the cross-sections book for Episode III which mentions one of the excuses for the construction and maintenance of the Navy is the potential of invaders from outside the galaxy.

Yeah, but it doesn't make sense that these ships haven't appeared yet if they were so important... I would have preferred for Fractalsponge to make models for vessels that are already present in the EU and need images.

I know this will blow your mind, but the Bellator is not "new" in a certain extent. In Dark Empire there where a lot of ships over Byss so Fractalsponge just picked one anonymus star cruiser and named it+give him more clear look...

http://www.theforce....de/cruiser1.jpg
http://www.theforce....e/cruiser1b.jpg
http://bbs.stardestr...t=1125#p3394748

And the Secutor-class Star Destroyer can also be seen over Byss
http://www.theforce..../destroyer3.jpg
http://fractalsponge...utor/index.html