Can't Align Ground With Gatehouse (units can't enter/exit)

Hello all!

I've found myself with a most unusual issue. I'm sure it's a simple fix, but unfortunately I haven't been able to devise a solution.

I'm attempting to use HelmsDeepRampart05 as part of a map, and I cannot get the terrain to line up with it is such a way that a unit can walk through it. The unit is either walking on the ramp/gatehouse, or on the actual aground, but cannot effectively transition between the two. Here's a picture to give you an idea:

Any ideas on this one? I've tried leveling the terrain to within .5 of height, a little above, a little below, and as even as possible to no avail. Looking at the actual Helm's Deep map has been no help.

Thank you all in advance!

Edited by Cothonian, 20 December 2018 - 11:41 PM.

...and I just realized that I put this topic in the wrong section. If a mod sees this, feel free to drop the topic into the World Builder section where it belongs.

Can do! And I wish I knew the answer. I too have a map with a bridge over a gate that doesn't allow units to cross over.

the problem lies in the ramp/ plane mesh settings, most likely. try to mess a bit with these in the w3d module of the object and see what you can get.

the problem lies in the ramp/ plane mesh settings, most likely. try to mess a bit with these in the w3d module of the object and see what you can get.

I'm assuming I would extract that from the final.big?

Also, I am assuming that I would need to include the edited W3D model with the map where ever I uploaded it yes?

Thank you very much for your help by the way. This is literally the first time I've seriously worked with World Builder.

 

the problem lies in the ramp/ plane mesh settings, most likely. try to mess a bit with these in the w3d module of the object and see what you can get.

I'm assuming I would extract that from the final.big?
Also, I am assuming that I would need to include the edited W3D model with the map where ever I uploaded it yes?
Thank you very much for your help by the way. This is literally the first time I've seriously worked with World Builder.

 

 
As this object is used in the helms map we know it has a plane for the units to walk through so it's pretty weird to me how it doesn't work. More screenshots maybe?
 
@SilverBane, the planes move with the object, right? So changing z-position of the object shouldn't matter, correct?
 
Coth did you look at how they placed the object in the original map? To look at them in wb you'd usually extract them from the game files but it's faster to just download someone's edit from here and take a look: http://bfme2.heaveng...arch=helms deep
 
Also, I'm pretty sure SilverBane is talking about the w3d module in the ini code, not the model itself. To edit the model you'd need special software and to play the map with a friend you'd need your friends to edit their game files to even play. A mod basically. That's not what we want if you're just making a map. What you want to do is to make a map.ini file that you put in the map folder. This is a file where you can write custom ini code or change code from the game to apply just on your map. Here's what you'd put in it to edit the w3d module, for example.
 

Object HelmsDeepRampart05

ReplaceModule ModuleTag_Draw
  Draw = W3DScriptedModelDraw ModuleTag_Draw_New
    OkToChangeModelColor  = Yes
    UseStandardModelNames = Yes
    DefaultModelConditionState
      Model = RBHDIRamp5
    End
    
    ModelConditionState  = DAMAGED
      Model         = RBHDIRamp5_D1  
    End
    
    ModelConditionState  = REALLYDAMAGED
      Model         = RBHDIRamp5_D1  
    End
	
    ModelConditionState  = RUBBLE
      Model         = RBHDIRamp5_D1  
    End
    
    ModelConditionState  = POST_RUBBLE
		Model         = None
    End

    ModelConditionState  = POST_COLLAPSE
		 Model         = None
    End
    
    WallBoundsMesh = P2
    RampMesh1 = P1
    RampMesh2 = P3
    RaisedWallMesh = P2_OLD
    
  End
End
END

    WallBoundsMesh = P2
    RampMesh1 = P1
    RampMesh2 = P3
    RaisedWallMesh = P2_OLD

is what you'd want to look at. At least if I'm getting SilverBane right here  P1, P2, P3 are the planes of the object, but I'm not sure what he's suggesting you to change
 
I still doubt that you need to edit this, it seems very odd to me but I haven't had an issue like this before so I'm probably wrong.

PS. If this issue doesn't get solved, ask Dark Lord. He has a lot of experience building castle maps, I'm sure he has encountered your issue before.

Edited by Jokuc, 03 January 2019 - 10:52 PM.

Funny enough I was looking at a few other custom Helm's Deep maps, and the two I took a look at both had the same problem (one was map_wor_isen, and I cannot recall the name of the other at the moment.) I'll try taking a look at a third and see what I can see.

It's weird because the unit can climb up onto the stairs, up the causeway, and into the gatehouse but cannot transition onto the ground the composes the upper level. Or, if you start on the upper level, you simply cannot transition into the gatehouse. I probably won't have time tonight, but I can get some other screenshots up to show off what I'm doing exactly. Most of the rest of the map is done at this point. Literally just this tiny issue holding everything up.

(Also sorry for the slow responses, holiday and such)

Thank you all for your input!

Here's another screenshot from in-game (again, map is not done...)

screen shot software

You'll notice that the ramp is perfectly climb-able, and the unit can get into the gatehouse. He just can't transition onto the ground that composes the second level. I'll be taking a look at some other Helm's Deep maps later tonight to see if I can find a working example to pick apart in WB.

 

It's weird because the unit can climb up onto the stairs, up the causeway, and into the gatehouse but cannot transition onto the ground the composes the upper level. Or, if you start on the upper level, you simply cannot transition into the gatehouse. I probably won't have time tonight, but I can get some other screenshots up to show off what I'm doing exactly. Most of the rest of the map is done at this point. Literally just this tiny issue holding everything up.
 
(Also sorry for the slow responses, holiday and such)
 
Thank you all for your input!

I wish I knew the answer.

 
I realized I had the exact same problem years ago but with a completely different object and was able to figure out that some objects in the game (or planes, rather) can only connect to those of other objects and not terrain. I don't know why, but that's how it is. What they do is add an invisible object that has a plane which does connect to terrain and put it on top of the object that doesn't.
 
To fix your problem: Find the invisible HelmsDeepRampart05a object in the objects menu, place it anywhere in your map, then copypaste the XY Pos, Z and Angle values from the normal ramp to this object.
 
PS. Be sure to show me your map once you're done!

 

This makes a lot of sense, I'll be trying it out ASAP! (If it works, I'll also mark it as solved.)

Thank you!

And yeah I'll stick around a bit, wouldn't mind showing off the map

...and it worked perfectly! No hiccups, no fighting with it. It just worked. Thank you sir!

Now I can actually finish this thing.

 

 

the problem lies in the ramp/ plane mesh settings, most likely. try to mess a bit with these in the w3d module of the object and see what you can get.

I'm assuming I would extract that from the final.big?
Also, I am assuming that I would need to include the edited W3D model with the map where ever I uploaded it yes?
Thank you very much for your help by the way. This is literally the first time I've seriously worked with World Builder.

 

 
As this object is used in the helms map we know it has a plane for the units to walk through so it's pretty weird to me how it doesn't work. More screenshots maybe?
 
@SilverBane, the planes move with the object, right? So changing z-position of the object shouldn't matter, correct?
 
Coth did you look at how they placed the object in the original map? To look at them in wb you'd usually extract them from the game files but it's faster to just download someone's edit from here and take a look: http://bfme2.heaveng...arch=helms deep
 
Also, I'm pretty sure SilverBane is talking about the w3d module in the ini code, not the model itself. To edit the model you'd need special software and to play the map with a friend you'd need your friends to edit their game files to even play. A mod basically. That's not what we want if you're just making a map. What you want to do is to make a map.ini file that you put in the map folder. This is a file where you can write custom ini code or change code from the game to apply just on your map. Here's what you'd put in it to edit the w3d module, for example.
 

Spoiler

Object HelmsDeepRampart05

ReplaceModule ModuleTag_Draw
  Draw = W3DScriptedModelDraw ModuleTag_Draw_New
    OkToChangeModelColor  = Yes
    UseStandardModelNames = Yes
    DefaultModelConditionState
      Model = RBHDIRamp5
    End
    
    ModelConditionState  = DAMAGED
      Model         = RBHDIRamp5_D1  
    End
    
    ModelConditionState  = REALLYDAMAGED
      Model         = RBHDIRamp5_D1  
    End
	
    ModelConditionState  = RUBBLE
      Model         = RBHDIRamp5_D1  
    End
    
    ModelConditionState  = POST_RUBBLE
		Model         = None
    End

    ModelConditionState  = POST_COLLAPSE
		 Model         = None
    End
    
    WallBoundsMesh = P2
    RampMesh1 = P1
    RampMesh2 = P3
    RaisedWallMesh = P2_OLD
    
  End
End
END

Where

    WallBoundsMesh = P2
    RampMesh1 = P1
    RampMesh2 = P3
    RaisedWallMesh = P2_OLD

is what you'd want to look at. At least if I'm getting SilverBane right here  P1, P2, P3 are the planes of the object, but I'm not sure what he's suggesting you to change
 
I still doubt that you need to edit this, it seems very odd to me but I haven't had an issue like this before so I'm probably wrong.

 

PS. If this issue doesn't get solved, ask Dark Lord. He has a lot of experience building castle maps, I'm sure he has encountered your issue before.

 

That's what I meant. I fixed several objects thru plane/mesh editing in the w3d module.

But your solution is much simpler and faster. I should have thought about it since I also did that in my Keep Deff at a point, trying to fix pathfinding on walls.

Glad it works!

Map is 90% done. Pretty much in the process of doing multiplayer testing and ironing out tiny things like texture blending issues. For Strictly PvP everything's in place.

Now I just need to do some research on getting the AI to properly engage the gates of the fortress and in turn sack it. Right now they just sit at their bases.

Overall I'm looking forward to releasing it!

Map is 99% done. I just need to do some more play testing to make sure that it is properly balanced for multiplayer. Really the only issue I am having is getting AI to effectively work on the map... convincing them to destroy the gates and proceed to sack the fortress is harder than anticipated.

BUT, here is a link to the map in its current state. I present to thee, Dol Harondor: https://www.dropbox....r_V1.2.zip?dl=0

At some point in the future (hopefully sooner than later) I'll get this properly uploaded to a map distribution site like here or Heaven Games. Until then the above dropbox link should work just fine for you guys.

First map ever and it is playable!

Edited by Cothonian, 20 January 2019 - 04:39 PM.

Congratulations mate! Its always a good feeling when you get a map done. I'll be sure to take a look at it later.

EDIT. I've had a look and I'm impressed. My first map certainly looked appalling by comparison. The texturing, terrain and details are great! You should definitely keep at it. I've taken a few screenshots just because its nice to see the map in the thread.

Edited by Fudge, 22 January 2019 - 03:14 PM.

Meant to reply earlier...

Thank you very much Fudge! Appreciated

So I've finally gotten a crew together to play test the map. I have since started making adjustments to it.

Unlike most fortresses, this one actually has space in it. A LOT of space. As a result, the player in the fortress has a rather incredible advantage when it comes to resources. So I'm making some minor adjustments to tone it down a little bit inside the fortress.

Also, I'm still desperately trying to figure out how to get AI working on this map, even in the most basic sense. Even with all gates open when the game starts, AI just builds a base and sits around. Doesn't attempt to do anything at all. I'm currently reading through some other help posts, specifically relating to fortress gates and such. I am also examining some other custom fortress maps, seeing if I can pick apart how their scripting is set up.

Either way, once I have the updated version of this map finalized I'll upload it to this thread. When I feel that it's ready, I'm going to get it uploaded in more visible locations. If anybody has suggestions in that regard I'll happily take them.

Thank you all!