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Naz's thoughts on BotFA...


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#1 Nazgûl

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 12:58 AM

8062_the-hobbit-the-battle-of-the-five-a
 

 

I know there are a major topic on all the Hobbit movies in the Prancing Pony section of T3A. But it's +40 pages... so, I wanted my own, since I really have to vent myself after seeing BotFA for the first time (yeah I know, chocker...)  :flameblast: I'm sure I have forgotten many things, but here's (in no particular order) some of my reflections, even though I might get a better overall conclusion after the upcoming Extended Edition - I hope.

 

  • I wonder which armies are meant to represent the five armies here. AFAIK Tolkien meant that the five armies consisted of Dwarves, Elves, Men, Orc/Goblins and Wargs, no? There are no wargs what so ever in this movie, except the two ridden by Azog and Bolg. So which are the five armies? Dwarves obviously as well as elves and orcs/goblins. But the final two, are what? Humans? Eagles? Bats?
     
  • What's with all them new orc races that we have never seen before? What are they supposed to be? Hobgoblins? Half Trolls? Or some sort of small trolls och crossbreeds of some sort? PJ really went crazy here.
     
  • The orc army led by Azog, that we see leave Dol Guldur in DoS look different from the second orc army led by Bolg, that is amassed from in Gundabad. Why is that? Shouldn't they logically be of the same origin - as in Gundabad, and thus wear the same type of armor? Azog's army is wearing non uniform armor while Bolg's army seems to be as uniform as the Uruk-hai of Saruman in TTT?
     
  • Why are the trolls like twice the size of trolls in Lord of the Rings (like Cave Trolls, Mountain Trolls and Attack Trolls) as well as Desolation of Smaug's Tom, Bert & William? Some are even bigger than that, like the "siege trolls" that seem to be like some sort of troll giants? The one that head butt the wall makes Grond look like a tooth pick for Pete's sake?
     
  • The White Council... In DoS, Gandalf is faced with Sauron, defeated and imprisoned in a cage. That scene in DoS was a somewhat weird scene as well... "Saaaauuurrrroooooonnnnnnnnn....", as gandalf moaned like a baby who just crapped himself, despite being a Maiar himself. Anyways, why all the hassle just to have Galadriel walk barefoot into Dol Guldur and *poff* him free, after killing an orc that looks like Bolg's brother (since it's the scrapped actor-based Bolg who got 1,5 seconds of screen time this way). And then, we get to see all the nine nazgûls in a COMPLETELY different shape than before. I know we have only seen them in the twilight world, and this time they showed themselves outside the twilight, and without the capes. But still... transparent armored figures that looks quite cartoony didn't do it for me - and being a nazgûl at heart, I'm offended  :evilthinkin: Finally the battle between the nine and the council... I think Saruman looked as cool as ever (Lee rocks), and Elrond was ok even though I find the concept of fighting wraiths/ghouls/ghosts with physical swords rather strange. But the way they made Galadriel look like a space zombie when going into "evil mode", was disappointing. She looked more convincing in LotR. And during this battle, why was Sauron not present until afterwards?
     
  • What lame jackass came up with the scene where Thorin hallucinates about drowning in molten gold? I thought the molten gold scene in DoS where they tried to drown Smaug was the pinnacle of lame scenes, but this is right up there along side it.
     
  • The huge Whyrms that pop up in the beginning of the battle... what happens to them? They are suddenly just, gone? Who or what killed them, and how?
     
  • The elves are seen at first with what looks like tens of thousands, if not even 100 000 men. As the battle progress to the end, there are hardly any seen other than Thranduil and his small possé. Did that enormous elven army really perish down to the last man? And why did Thranduil bring 100 000 men to what was supposed to be a battle with 13 dwarves?
     
  • At first, when Dain arrives with the iron Hills dwarves, that army also looks huge. But when attacking the orcs, they suddenly look like a third of what they were a second ago? And who gave the OK to that pig Dain's ridning? Weta did nice concepts of large boars, but no, let's go with a fat pig?
     
  • Where is the ram riding dwarven cavalry? In Extended Edition I guess...
     
  • Where is the dwarven battle wagons? In Extended Edition I guess...
     
  • Why is Beorn only seen in a couple of seconds in the final stages of the battle, after having a fair amount of screen time in DoS, that in turn was perceived as a buildup for BotFA. I really thought we were going to see him participate in the battle much earlier.
     
  • If this is PG11 (or is it 13?), how come they made the executions of Fili and Kili so elaborate while they seem to have avoided showing ANY deaths of random people in Lake Town as Smaug turns the town into a barbecue, as well as sparing all the other members of Thorin's compary that fell in the book? Regardless, all of DoS seems pretty dark and sinister compared to the other two.
     
  • Bilbo's journey home with Gandalf is like... wtf happened? Did they have teleportation in Middle Earth? They struggled for what seems like weeks to reach Erebor though three movies. But after the battle, it's like the Shire was just around the corner - despite being on the other side of the friggin Misty Mountains? I'm really impressed with how they made new shots with Ian portraying old Bilbo and still make him look like he did in LotR, but other than that I feel like the end was a bit... cut off.

Edited by Nazgûl, 21 April 2015 - 01:15 AM.

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#2 NewErr

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 07:18 AM

Are you asking PJ these questions, since I guess we don't have the answear. :p

 

About the five armies: I always thought the 5th army are the eagles.

About the orc races: Well there are the Gundabad orcs who indeed were badass during the reign of Witch-King of Angmar so I assume they do need to look awesome. Moria and Dol Guldur orcs tho look like some Uruk-hai cousins when we clearly seen in FOTR how Moria Goblins look like. Well shit PJ, technically we haven't seen 1 orc this movies just many uruks.

About the elves disappearing: I know right?! Like wtf they evaporated?! But I guess Thrandy came up with that badass army cause he was expecting reinforcements from the Iron hills.

About the Nazguls: There is a sweet scene when Saruman tells Gandalf, in FOTR, that the nine crossed the Isen "cloaked in riders in black" so I assume their true form appeared a bit differently. Since they are not living nor dead, they are somewhat like ghosts with physic form?! (random guess here)

 

Rest too lazy to write about.



#3 Lauri

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 10:55 AM

 

as well as sparing all the other members of Thorin's compary that fell in the book?

 

 

Thorin, Fili and Kili died in the Battle of the Five Armies. The rest of the company survived. The eagles were the fifth army.

 

What did you want to have in the journey home sequence then? Walking scenes? Did you apply the same logic to LotR, when the Hobbits are suddenly home from Minas Tirith?


Edited by Lauri, 21 April 2015 - 10:56 AM.

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#4 Nazgûl

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 02:18 PM

You're right, the others fell in other places, like Moria... 

 

I wonder if PJ saw the Eagles as the fifth army, as they were just a handfull?

 

Well I know... but still. I would have liked some kind of camera flybys perhaps, showing the vast distance... some mood music... ambience. Some minor sequences showing the beauty of Middle Earth...


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#5 Mathijs

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 03:21 PM

Showing the distance, yes. They condensed Middle-earth's size to a ridiculous degree in this film by having Legolas and Tauriel ride to and from Gundabad in what can't be more than 3 days.

 

Speaking of days, I thought Bilbo saying Thorin had been in his hoard 'for days' was a little odd, because the Dwarves arrived half a day after Smaug was killed.


No fuel left for the pilgrims


#6 Lauri

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:17 PM

Timing in this film is a wreck, highlighted by the references to the ranger known as Strider. You know, the 10-year old boy.


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#7 Mathijs

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:20 PM

But taking PJ's compressed FotR timeline into account (Gandalf leaving and returning to the Shire after his visit to Minas Tirith), Aragorn would be in his early twenties, having just begun his great ranging.


No fuel left for the pilgrims


#8 Nazgûl

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:49 PM

"having Legolas and Tauriel ride to and from Gundabad in what can't be more than 3 days" - and that, indeed  :whathuh:


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#9 Lauri

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 08:20 PM

But taking PJ's compressed FotR timeline into account (Gandalf leaving and returning to the Shire after his visit to Minas Tirith), Aragorn would be in his early twenties, having just begun his great ranging.

Is that really confirmed though? I mean, in the film it makes sense, as there's no indication at all that he went away the 17 years that he actually did.


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#10 Mathijs

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 08:22 PM

I think Thranduil's words pretty much confirm it, yeah.


No fuel left for the pilgrims


#11 Nazgûl

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 09:38 PM

This is what I meant with the "I would have liked some kind of camera flybys perhaps, showing the vast distance... some mood music... ambience. Some minor sequences showing the beauty of Middle Earth...". Stuff like this would be quite appropriate and a nice way to round off the 6 films, instead of the "Ok we're done - and now we're home - End"

https://youtu.be/SOomDInRR1o


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#12 Lauri

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 10:22 PM

While I agree that it could have been a awesome touch (the beacons being lit is probably my favorite set of shots), I also feel that those kind of shots symbolizes the journey forward. When Bilbo and Gandalf is heading home, they're not really on a journey. They're just going home again.

 

I'm also pretty sure that they'd screw them up with CGI anyways. Okay, maybe a tad unfair. The shots in the chapter "Over Hill" in AUJ EE (1:53:00) are pretty awesome (until they get to the mountain), and other shots are great too.


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#13 njm1983

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 10:47 PM

https://youtu.be/TZm_Zth0rhw



#14 Nazgûl

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 01:12 AM

And there we have it...  :thumbsupxd:


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