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[News] 19/06/15 Elo system updates


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#1 ICT

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 03:20 PM

Hello everyone,

 

the first weeks of the new ladder have been quite successful and the T3A:Online team would like to thank everyone for supporting this project. Currently there are over 300 games submitted!

 

We have found a few issues that we'd like to address. As of now, the following updates have been brought into effect:

We have noticed that there was a slight deflation introduced (possibly by rounding errors) that added up to a deviation of a total 8 points across the 1vs1 and 2vs2 ladders in over 300 matches - nothing to fear but hopefully fixed for now. Another issue was ladder activity versus effective gain - I understand that it is unsatisfying for players to be listed quite low even though they have plenty of wins and show good activity. The underlying mechanism that was in place here came close to the old gamespy system. The big difference back then was a much higher number of participants resulting in more opportunities to gain a higher rating. To consider this we introduced a small activity bonus for played matches, hopefully increasing the motivation to fight for ranks!

 

The existing scores have been adjusted to reflect the changes.

 

The captcha is now bigger and should cause less problems for certain people to enter a wrong value.

 

Please feel free to add more improvement suggestions as there is always something we can do better or that we've overlooked!

~ T3A:Online Team


Edited by ICT, 19 June 2015 - 04:19 PM.
Captcha

"To know what question we may reasonably propose is in itself a strong evidence of sagacity or intelligence. For if a question be in itself incongruous and begs for uncalled-for answers, it holds, sometimes, besides embarrassing the proposer, the disadvantage to seduce the unguarded listener into giving absurd answers, and we are presented with the ridiculous spectacle of one (as the ancients said) milking the he-goat, and the other holding a sieve beneath."


#2 y0shi

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 03:37 PM

Still people with 0 or 1 win that are so much higher rank then people with 10-15 wins lol, still makes 0 sense to me. The ladder seems broken for any competetive play imo. It's still a fun way to kill time, but its impossible to fight for top 10 unless you go on like a 10+ winstreak every time you play.



#3 ICT

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 04:00 PM

Thanks for your comment y0shi, let me explain the reason for what you observe. The Elo score is calculated based on absolute score differences between players, not on wins or losses. That means if you win or lose a roughly equal amount of (edit: randomly distributed) games your score does not change dramatically and you won't move far from your starting score. Now if there are only a few players in the ladder we have to assess their skilllevel by assuming the starting value reflects their skill. Therefore even with only 1 loss you might be higher ranked than someone with 10 wins (and respective losses). A possible way to assess a new players true skill level better is to give him only a provisional ranking at the start that is calculated during the first x games based on a modified formula. However, we could not know how the players would react to the ladder so we decided in dialogue with our ladderadmins to skip the requirement to play for example 8 provisional matches in order to be displayed.

 

This is of course a debatable question and I'm open to hear more opinions & ideas.


Edited by ICT, 19 June 2015 - 08:20 PM.

"To know what question we may reasonably propose is in itself a strong evidence of sagacity or intelligence. For if a question be in itself incongruous and begs for uncalled-for answers, it holds, sometimes, besides embarrassing the proposer, the disadvantage to seduce the unguarded listener into giving absurd answers, and we are presented with the ridiculous spectacle of one (as the ancients said) milking the he-goat, and the other holding a sieve beneath."


#4 y0shi

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 04:15 PM

Ye after seeing the elo system in action, I kinda miss the cw point system alot, since it awarded you for being active. Whilst this is more like the more losses you have the more points you lose and fighting for higher rank becomes nearly impossible. In cw you could spam games last week and still get rank 1 :/. The only thing that is good with this is the random maps/host and ofc the winner posting replays, so there is no problem with people not reporting etc.

Cw system rewarded you for playing people higher rank, I barely notice any difference, and I usually play people with top 10 ranks, since my mates are all highly rank, and even if I go positive and win more then I lose, the ammount of points you get is barely noticeble after you lose 1 game.


Edited by y0shi, 19 June 2015 - 04:16 PM.


#5 ICT

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 04:19 PM

Sorry I forgot to add:

 

The captcha is now bigger and should cause less problems for certain people to enter a wrong value.


"To know what question we may reasonably propose is in itself a strong evidence of sagacity or intelligence. For if a question be in itself incongruous and begs for uncalled-for answers, it holds, sometimes, besides embarrassing the proposer, the disadvantage to seduce the unguarded listener into giving absurd answers, and we are presented with the ridiculous spectacle of one (as the ancients said) milking the he-goat, and the other holding a sieve beneath."


#6 ImAplaya

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 05:16 PM

There is no way u should implement a ranking system of this nature without a provisional ranking mechanism . There should be a requirement of say 10 , 20 , etc games played before a player gets ranked .

 

I also dont get when u say that win/lose same nr of games and ur rating stays the same . I mean if i win 10/lose 10 vs an opponent thats ranked 10 places above me than it only stands to reason that i should gain points as its fair to assume that skill wise im closer to my opp than the ranking would suggest .



#7 y0shi

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 05:41 PM

Ye with the system atm you have a higher chance of staying highly ranked by just playing very little games, and just stop there, enjoying your top 10 lol. I guess this wasn't planned, but unfortunately it's the reality of the situation, with people that havent played any qm since the release and yet are still higher ranked then players who are acually active :O



#8 ICT

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 08:19 PM

I also dont get when u say that win/lose same nr of games and ur rating stays the same . I mean if i win 10/lose 10 vs an opponent thats ranked 10 places above me than it only stands to reason that i should gain points as its fair to assume that skill wise im closer to my opp than the ranking would suggest .

 

Yes in that case the difference between both players decreases by shifting points from the higher ranked player to the one with less Elo points. I was referring to a general case with random opponents where you play both higher and lower ranked players (avg ~ 1000).
 


"To know what question we may reasonably propose is in itself a strong evidence of sagacity or intelligence. For if a question be in itself incongruous and begs for uncalled-for answers, it holds, sometimes, besides embarrassing the proposer, the disadvantage to seduce the unguarded listener into giving absurd answers, and we are presented with the ridiculous spectacle of one (as the ancients said) milking the he-goat, and the other holding a sieve beneath."


#9 ICT

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 12:04 PM

Ye with the system atm you have a higher chance of staying highly ranked by just playing very little games, and just stop there, enjoying your top 10 lol. I guess this wasn't planned, but unfortunately it's the reality of the situation, with people that havent played any qm since the release and yet are still higher ranked then players who are acually active :O

 

Far away, but one option: It is possible to introduce penalties (= losing points) or to set players 'inactive' after a certain time without playing matches (removing them from the ladder/set them unranked) or a combination of both. 2-3 weeks of inactivity is nothing to worry about though.


"To know what question we may reasonably propose is in itself a strong evidence of sagacity or intelligence. For if a question be in itself incongruous and begs for uncalled-for answers, it holds, sometimes, besides embarrassing the proposer, the disadvantage to seduce the unguarded listener into giving absurd answers, and we are presented with the ridiculous spectacle of one (as the ancients said) milking the he-goat, and the other holding a sieve beneath."


#10 ImAplaya

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 05:49 PM

Or u can reward players who play more matches , like in a week period for ex . You can give some kind of a badge idk . The idea is to incentivise the regulars and through doing that u also incentivise new players to become regulars 



#11 ICT

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 07:19 PM

Yes, those are all possibilities, but the ladder is still very young and we simply have to monitor how the player base develops.


"To know what question we may reasonably propose is in itself a strong evidence of sagacity or intelligence. For if a question be in itself incongruous and begs for uncalled-for answers, it holds, sometimes, besides embarrassing the proposer, the disadvantage to seduce the unguarded listener into giving absurd answers, and we are presented with the ridiculous spectacle of one (as the ancients said) milking the he-goat, and the other holding a sieve beneath."


#12 Coffeesan

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 06:23 PM

I have problems connecting online to BFME1, just as he will start the game and I get error message solutions, and yet no attempt to connect me to play online.
Someone who could help me?  :ermm:



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