2365 replies to this topic

[StolenTech]

not because they are "OP" they should die to friendly fire... they shouldn't be buffed to have range because they are already too good at their job.

 

also as I said you CAN micro around it, syncronuat's effect stays on buildings after a short period of deploying it, so you can get value from it and still move away before you attack the building, so they are not dying because they are OP but because you refuse to spare a few clicks to save them.

Edited by StolenTech, 12 June 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

First and foremost I apologize for my comment before, I'd thought it would be enough of a counter-argument by listing some very obvious friendly fire examples that would sure to deter simpler men. As simpler men could make the connection between the almost "retard" level of micro necessary to get Syncronauts killed by your own forces from the absolutely tiny amount of AOE dealt by units such as the Knightframe, to the retarded level of micro needed to deploy a Desolator in your own forces; but I digress. The issue still stands as it is. Part of your argument is still reasonable. Friendly fire is an issue that plagues not only Foehn but other factions with drastically more damaging area of effect. Though, I'll have to disagree that it's bad game design to have the friendly fire option enabled, as it is a simple fact of life. One cannot control radiation and tell it to only hurt the Conscripts wearing blue, nor can one explain to an EMP how not to effect friendly tanks. 

 

As the Commander, especially in the CnC series, one has a certain amount of responsibility that must be kept in order to ensure victory. In game terms, we would call that Macro and Mirco. One of which, I'm not so sure you understand completely. Mirco is the act of managing little movements such as move, halt, and attack. Thus, each move, each kill, each death is inevitably contributed to the Commander in charge of the operation. In real world terms, we call that responsibility. Now if a Commander understands his troops enough to propose a drastic change in one unit battle philosophy, but cannot, or will not, claim responsibility for attacking a structure when he knew that the ensuing assault would purposely end some of his unit's own lives; we would call those commanders incompetent. 

 

The units and abilities I have compiled into an easy to digest list all share a similar quality. Their friendly fire capabilities are also completely avoidable using proper micro. The Syncronaut situation is very similar to say, Siegfried's cannon splashing onto the EA's own infantry battalions due to a Blotick trap triggering his auto fire. THOSE units/abilities' situation is one and the same as THIS (not these because the Syncronaut is, unfortunately for your case, one type of unit) unit. They all are prone to friendly fire one way or another. I don't see this as "troll"-ing the user, as trolling would probably be removing Foehn altogether. No, the Syncronaut situation is a problem that can be solved (just like all other units I have listed) through proper micromanagement. 

 

The fact that Syncronauts are expensive is a very peculiar thing to bring up. Especially in the topic of unit actions and interactions, not the Foehn economy. I agree that having to spend large sums of money for a permeant target painter is absolutely beautiful. Still, the only thing I can offer you is my most sincere condolences for being a Haihead player in a patch like this. How you must be crying your heart out with the ineffective costs. 

 

Please, if you have any, and I mean ANY, concerns, comments, or other brilliant suggestions, simply reply to me. I do fear, however, that your burns would prevent you from doing just so. 

[Handepsilon]

Syncronaut doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, just steer that Shadray in the angle where it won't hit the guy, or order that Megalodon to slash it from the opposite side.

And Lancers should hardly damage the syncs

MADMAN is redundant and if you are thinking of using Diverbees, your usage is already wrong

[BlackAbsence]

not because they are "OP" they should die to friendly fire... they shouldn't be buffed to have range because they are already too good at their job.

If their job is dying then yes, they're great at their "job".

 

as I said you CAN micro around it, syncronuat's effect stays on buildings after a short period of deploying it, so you can get value from it and still move away before you attack the building

But you never said that before. That's the first time I'm hearing about their effect being residual enough for them to move out of the way. That pretty much solves the issues... The issue is appeased!

 

Friendly fire is an issue that plagues not only Foehn but other factions with drastically more damaging area of effect. Though, I'll have to disagree that it's bad game design to have the friendly fire option enabled, as it is a simple fact of life. One cannot control radiation and tell it to only hurt the Conscripts wearing blue, nor can one explain to an EMP how not to effect friendly tanks. 

Stop misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about all of splash damage in general; I'm talking about a very specific case of splash damage!

 

The Syncronaut situation is very similar to say, Siegfried's cannon splashing onto the EA's own infantry battalions due to a Blotick trap triggering his auto fire.

No... No they are not xD You see, you have choice to kill yourself here whereas there you do not and Syncronin need to be close range in order to do their job. "Friendly fire is an issue that plagues not only Foehn but other factions with drastically more damaging area of effect. Though, I'll have to disagree that it's bad game design" You're telling me Siegfried's cannon killing your own forces to pop ups isn't bad game design?

 

Please, if you have any, and I mean ANY, concerns, comments, or other brilliant suggestions, simply reply to me. I do fear, however, that your burns would prevent you from doing just so. 

Oh yeah, I'm gonna need an ice pack for this one xD

Sorry, but I'd rather talk to someone a bit more brighter.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 13 June 2017 - 06:28 PM.

[CLAlstar]

>You're telling me Siegfried's cannon killing your own forces to pop ups isn't bad game design?

>Sorry, but I'd rather talk to someone a bit more brighter.

 

NFZ made a valid points, unlike you. Siegfook killing his own forces is not bad game design. It's a good example of balance, Mr. "Magnetrons counter megalodons, plz buff megaarena shield"

[TeslaCruiser]

Friendly fire can be both bad and good in games. In MO it adds deep to the game (not realism just deep)
In this game you can learn how to correctly use ff both in your favor and against your enemy
That adds to the skill ceiling. On this respect, a experienced and skillful player can avoid or mitigate friendly fire AND use enemy strenght against them

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 13 June 2017 - 10:56 PM.

[Handepsilon]

You're telling me Siegfried's cannon killing your own forces to pop ups isn't bad game design?

Because it's not. If you get your own units blown by Sieg, then you steered your units wrong. Same case with Syncronaut getting destroyed by friendlies.

If can't handle microing units, get something like Lancers to do the job

[BlackAbsence]

Siegfook killing his own forces is not bad game design.

It was then I stopped taking you seriously. No scientist, in their right mind, would lob a ball of vortex like hell upon his friends. I understand that Siegfook doesn't have a mind though because he is a programmed thing in a simulation.

 

a experienced and skillful player can avoid or mitigate friendly fire AND use enemy strenght against them

Yes. I was talking about a specific situation of friendly fire. Please note that I specifically emphasised specific situation.

 

If you get your own units blown by Sieg, then you steered your units wrong.

Dude, it's impossible to steer away from a pop up support power which manipulates Seig to go all gung-hoe on your friendlies. 

Edited by BlackAbsence, 14 June 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[BlackAbsence]

If can't handle microing units, get something like Lancers to do the job

What are we talking about anymore!?

[BlackAbsence]

It's a good example of balance, Mr. "Magnetrons counter megalodons, plz buff megaarena shield"

Wtf is this? xD

Sometimes guys, you misunderstand me, and are very mean.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 14 June 2017 - 01:20 AM.

[Handepsilon]

Aren't we talking about friendly fire AoE that started with you complaining about Syncronaut getting blown by their own friendlies' fire, which then steered to Siegfried doing the same thing to his allies?

Also, what support power are you talking about, and no Euro Alliance player in their right mind would throw their troops away to enemies while Siegfried is around and capable of popping them from distance, and if the enemy closes, the group can just move away along with him and pop something else like Prism or Mirage instead while Sieg is on the move.

I don't see problem here. AoE friendly fire happens in RTS all the time. Age of Empires, Warcraft, Starcraft, it's all similar case.

[BlackAbsence]

Aren't we talking about friendly fire AoE that started with you complaining about Syncronaut getting blown by their own friendlies' fire, which then steered to Siegfried doing the same thing to his allies?

They're not the same though: Syincornuts get really close to things in order to do their job where they are susceptible to friendly damage. Siegfried's just Siefired and he does whatever the heck he wants.

 

what support power are you talking about

Northfirez brought up the Bloatic Trap "exploit" where Sieg will fire at where they are spawned which can be in the middle of your forces.

[Handepsilon]

I'd prefer to call that a good positioning of Bloatick Trap, props on the Scorpion Cell player rather than bad design of Sieg's attack. I once applied that tactic to Mangonels in Age of Empires 2 :l

[CLAlstar]

 

It was then I stopped taking you seriously. No scientist, in their right mind, would lob a ball of vortex like hell upon his friends. I understand that Siegfook doesn't have a mind though because he is a programmed thing in a simulation.

 

RAlity, not Reality. You seem to be forgetting that. What next, grand cannons not damaging your own units while dealing perfectfine damage to random tank in between of you forces?

 

 

Dude, it's impossible to steer away from a pop up support power which manipulates Seig to go all gung-hoe on your friendlies.

Also its not like you cant do anything when you see bloatick trap power start nearby your troops.You can for example, dunno, deploy siegfried or move him so he wont be able to fire because there is a delay between effect and actual bloatick spawn.

 

And dont give me shit that "it's impossible", i saw players doing that in multi.

 

And if your problem is the fact thatsyncronaut + buzzards end up with buzzards friendlyfiring at syncs, then maybe stop attacking unworthy of focus single cell buildings and take out actual base?

 

 

 

It's a good example of balance, Mr. "Magnetrons counter megalodons, plz buff megaarena shield"

Wtf is this? xD

Sometimes guys, you misunderstand me, and are very mean.

 

 

 

>from balance and feedback suggestion
- I suggest that the Magaarena enables Magalodons to become immune to magnetic effects like it does for EMP effects (also you might want to add that they can become immune to EMP to their info page)

 

:PepoThink:
Not like community completely facepalmed at that idea of buffing already broken support power to have no counters whatsoever.

[BlackAbsence]

Do you even remember what I suggested the Megalarena to be like, Alstar? I was saying how the one megnetron can stop an entire charge of Megaldons which isn't balanced.

If you thought that I was wrong there too then I can't take you even more seriously. Plus you won't shut up about it and bring it up way too often, especially when it's not about what's actually being discussed.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 14 June 2017 - 04:03 PM.

[Destroyencio]

It's to compensate about the OPness of Megalodons :V. Something OP being countered by something OP :3

[mevitar]

So, if he disagrees with you, you won't take him seriously? What's next, everyone that disagree with you will be called trolls? I guess that's where we're going here...
 

They're not the same though: Syincornuts get really close to things in order to do their job where they are susceptible to friendly damage. Siegfried's just Siefired and he does whatever the heck he wants.

With that logic, i want Brutes, Dogs and Spooks to be immune to all poison weapons, because they keep dying to my own Duneriders and Viruses whenever i engage the enemy. Also Desolators shouldn't affect my own infantry when deployed. Because why am i supposed to be forced to watch where my own units are going and what are they killing.
btw, if all your Megalodons are blocked by 1 Magetron... next time don't clump them, but spread them before engaging

Edited by mevitar, 14 June 2017 - 07:28 PM.

[GuardianGI]

Do you even remember what I suggested the Megalarena to be like, Alstar? I was saying how the one megnetron can stop an entire charge of Megaldons which isn't balanced.

If you thought that I was wrong there too then I can't take you even more seriously. Plus you won't shut up about it and bring it up way too often, especially when it's not about what's actually being discussed.

Oh... Yea... Sure...
The fact that Megalodons are actually immune to mind control already allows them to wreck almost any Epsilon subfactions with the Megaarena, and now you want them to be immune to Magnets? Like... Hello? What are you supposed to use to stop them without the Magnetrons? Archers?

Don't make me laugh...

[BlackAbsence]

So, if he disagrees with you, you won't take him seriously?

No

 

With that logic, i want Brutes, Dogs and Spooks to be immune to all poison weapons, because they keep dying to my own Duneriders and Viruses whenever i engage the enemy. Also Desolators shouldn't affect my own infantry when deployed. Because why am i supposed to be forced to watch where my own units are going and what are they killing.

btw, if all your Megalodons are blocked by 1 Magetron... next time don't clump them, but spread them before engaging

 

You clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Only engage in a topical conversion if you know the topic.

The only type of splash damage i was against WAS the specific case of syncronin until someone told me the effect was residual enough to micro around, but you people don't listen.

Then there was some big speal about Seig and all I said was it's dumb for a scientist to kill their own men like that, looking at it NOT AT A GAME PLAY perspective, but fuck, you people had to flip tables, and I agree with Tesla and others that manipulating your enemy to kill each other is a "good" tactic, yet you people are acting like I'm not in agreeance with that, because, again, you people don't listen.

 

Guys the time and money it takes to build a horde of Megaldons comparatively to one Megnetic weapon is astonishing. I'll leave it at that. And if you don't get it by then, well fuck it, I tried.

Some of you are being idiotic (not all) and not staying on the PROPER TOPIC so I'm going to stop replying the same thing over and over again. Good day.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 14 June 2017 - 09:14 PM.

[mevitar]

You clearly don't know what I'm talking about.

On the contrary. Let me show you something.
 

Guys the time and money it takes to build a horde of Megaldons comparatively to one Megnetic weapon is astonishing.

The time and money it takes to build a horde of infantry comparatively to one Desolator is astonishing. Even 1 Desolator makes can kill an entire army just by himself when he deploys. So why nobody is complaining about it?
Because it can be sniped from air, or overwhelmed by fast anti-infantry vehicles. Guess what Haihead has: a flying suicide anti-armor unit, Diverbee, perfect for killing sluggish Magnetrons.

Edited by mevitar, 14 June 2017 - 09:17 PM.