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#21 duke_Qa

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 10:04 PM

We're in the EEA, which allows us to trade as long as we implement 99% of the rules Brussels invent without any political clout, forcing us to spend a lot of money on lobbyists. So in a manner of speaking, to be allowed to trade with the EU, we're without political representation. Biggest advantage is that the naysayers feel good, but the truth is it's pretty damn close to being a member, just with very little to say. Not that being a member with 5 million inhabitants is that lucrative.

 

If the UK left the EU, I'm assuming they'd would have to concede to such an agreement, or we'd be seeing a socialist revolution within a decade. And that agreement will leave you with all the rules but none of the political clout.


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#22 duke_Qa

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 01:53 PM

Seems the exit side became quiet about Norway once they realized that we're paying about as much as a member state but with none of the political input. I don't mind, 5 million people still would lose a lot of political input compared to 50.

 

 

But the main reason I double post is because I do like Patrick Stewart's point of view on the topic, and wanted to share that. http://www.theguardi...ve-eu?CMP=fb_gu


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#23 duke_Qa

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 12:07 AM

Hmm,  this might be a turning point, even though it is sad, it is momentous when a politician gets assassinated.

http://www.huffingto...4b05e4be8611254

 

BIRSTALL, England (Reuters) - A British member of parliament was shot dead in the street on Thursday, causing deep shock across Britain and the suspension of campaigning for next week’s referendum on the country’s EU membership.

Jo Cox, 41, a lawmaker for the opposition Labour Party and a vocal advocate for Britain remaining in the European Union, was attacked while preparing to meet constituents in Birstall near Leeds in northern England.


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#24 OmegaBolt

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 01:30 PM

Not sure which direction you think this will turn it in. Mostly people won't know who she is, including me, so I don't know how it will spin anything unless the media uses it to do so.


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#25 duke_Qa

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 03:13 PM

Kinda hard not to put a spin on it, labour politician with pro-immigration and EU stance getting killed by neo-nazi lunatic while campaigning for staying in the EU? sounds so simple it can't be spun any other way.


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#26 OmegaBolt

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 09:20 PM

And yet it won't get as much of that as if the assassin was Muslim. Then it would be 'WE HAVE TO LEAVE NOW', regardless of how little sense it'd make.


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#27 duke_Qa

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 05:34 PM

Persons are smart, people are stupid.

 

John Oliver does a nice summary of Brexit:


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#28 duke_Qa

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:16 PM

Going to quote Calamity Jones, who sailed in these waters back in the 00s before he got a grip, an education and a will to work with game development even if it meant moving to Germany, on his views on Brexit:

 

 

I am a British guy living in Germany, working for a German company. My girlfriend is German, and my roommate is French. At work, just in my team, we have people from Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Poland, Finland, Sweden, etc. I now know people from at least 20 of the 28 European Union states, and they all seem pretty bloody similar to us British. In every other century but this, we would have been stabbing, shooting or bombing each other - not drinking beer and making video games.

I can understand many of the arguments against the EU, but it seems that the major concern on the minds of many is immigration. This is a subject I can discuss, since I am an immigrant myself... Who wants to see their neighbourhood, town or even country change beyond recognition due to an influx of immigrants from other nations, bringing their strange cultures, ideas and ideologies with them? I can understand this discomfort at change, but it's just a reality of living in such a densely-packed cluster of varied nations. What I think is at fault here is not immigration, but integration.

I have not lost my identity as a British person, and I do not intend to. But if a huge number of Brits moved into an area of Hamburg, started prancing around in bowler hats and monocles, shouting at German bars for selling Pilsner and Hefeweizen instead of bitter and gin, replacing all the local restaurants with Greggs outlets and chippies - I reckon a lot of locals would be pretty pissed off - and rightly so.

What, then, is an "appropriate level of culture to retain"? I would never try to obnoxiously impost my British values of boiling all food and fighting after eight pints of lager on a Tuesday night on these lovely Germans, but I would equally not expect to be forced to be ruthlessly punctual, stubborn and obsessive about rules. I am not German, but I pay my taxes and speak some of the language.

Migrants coming to other countries should not be expected to completely sacrifice their identity in order to integrate, but they similarly should not be allowed to impose their culture upon the country in which they live. It's what one might call "common sense". Unfortunately, we are now seeing people with extreme views on both sides - the notion that we must drop everything to avoid offending immigrants, and allow unrestricted access to our countries to everybody who wants it is just as ridiculous and terrible as the "throw out everybody who isn't British" view.

We need to take a rational, moderate approach to immigration, not some crazy, gut-feeling, extreme response. Leaving the EU is NOT a rational, moderate decision. Leaving the EU will not completely stop immigration. Leaving the EU will not magically fix every problem affecting the country. We need to make decisions on these things as an organised whole - as a unified Europe - not as a collection of small, self-interested countries who used to have a bad habit of stabbing, shooting and bombing each other.

I'm voting remain, because it's the sensible, rational decision.


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#29 Phil

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 10:51 PM

With the Brexit referendum, I get the feeling people don't really know what they are voting for or against. And unfortunately this hasn't been helped by either of the campaigns.

 

Here's a very good lecture dealing with some of the misconceptions:

 

 

 

What I find baffling is how people can complain with a straight face about the "undemocratic" and "unelected" EU, all while having majority elections for their lower house and an entirely unelected upper house of Parliament...


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#30 duke_Qa

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 12:01 AM

The British democracy as it stands certainly deserves to be shot in the head and usurped by a new one, yeah.

 

Saw that video in the comments of Calamity's post, and it's very sober and informative. It made me think that voting on higher-level things like the EU would require some base higher education to prove you're not a dunce.


Edited by duke_Qa, 23 June 2016 - 12:02 AM.

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#31 Bofur

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 11:40 AM

Well I'm voting IN today, and despite hearing a few pretty good arguments from the more reasonable quarter of the OUT side, I've never really been tempted to do anything but vote IN.

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#32 duke_Qa

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 09:57 PM

Going to be exciting to see how it turned out. I'm guessing we're going to start seeing numbers within a few hours.

 

Not sure I'll be sitting up for it, but I've read that booking companies have guessed 75% chance for stay.


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#33 Pasidon

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 10:37 PM

You're joking.  Bookies are getting involved?



#34 Mathijs

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 10:41 PM

Bookies get involved in just about everything.


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#35 OmegaBolt

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:24 AM

Remarkably close result is the most optimistic thing I can think of. http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36616028

 

The pound tanks a bit already. http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-36611512

 

David Cameron steps down, likely only to be replaced by an even more right wing leader. Goodbye basic rights, public services and the climate. http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36615028


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#36 Pasidon

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:36 AM

And I thought Americans were bad at making decisions.  Sake... nothing good is coming from that slight majority.



#37 OmegaBolt

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:39 AM

Scotland will also mostly likely go for another referendum on leaving the UK as they mostly voted to remain. Northern Ireland did too, and now there's trouble brewing there... hopefully no more bombings over the situation. http://www.independe...s-a7099276.html

 

And trouble in Europe. http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-36615879


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#38 Pasidon

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:31 AM

There won't even be an EU at that rate.  So GM rates have dropped, the pound is already far less valuable... what was the up side to this again?

 

And this just in, Mister Trump JUST said this about 5 seconds ago.  Take his floundering as you will:

 

"Statement Regarding British Referendum on E.U. Membership

The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.

Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again."



#39 Mathijs

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:50 AM

I'm so sorry Bolty. 

 

This is a fuck-up of historic proportions. A true testament to the dangers of politicians playing on people's gut feelings rather than proceeding with rationality.

 

EDIT: And now we all get to enjoy the economic results of this bullshit. 


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#40 OmegaBolt

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:17 AM

Mostly with lies as well. Already, they're going back on the crappy promises they laid out...

 


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