46 replies to this topic

[Speeder]

Why would the assets need to be remade? Our assets are already remakes in a large amount.

[MusketMarine]

Why would the assets need to be remade? Our assets are already remakes in a large amount.

You would have to remake the assets for the new engine (Or atleast convert them), because OpenRA uses a different format than voxels (I think)

[Speeder]

It's still voxels.

[MusketMarine]

It's still voxels.

Well then, my bad... You guys will have no trouble in that department then

[lovalmidas]

Assets based on pixels and voxels would probably be one of the easiest to port over, since OpenRA is already working on TS and RA2, which will use RA2's own assets. Similarly voices, music packs should not be a problem.

 

Many features you see in OpenRA (and corresponding mods for TD and Dune2000) are design choices by their developers. A person with different design goals can mod to turn them off or change them.

- E.g. Limited build radius around Construction Yard. Can be modded.

- E.g. Build queues. Universal queue (original TD, RA1, TS, RA2) or One factory, one queue (C&C3, RA3)?

 

 

The major challenges arise from the different programming and scripting models both games use, which would make conversions of AI, and scripted missions very difficult. Without considering MO, you can already see that OpenRA is progressing much more slowly in this area:

 

- More than one year since OpenRA came out, and no one has completely remade the original RA1 or TS campaign?

- Okay, not campaign... how about the singleplayer missions in the expansion packs? There are... maybe one or two in OpenRA?

- Much of Dune2000's AI and mission design remains a mystery (I was there in 2010 when Gruntlord and co. managed to discover the event-trigger system used in missions), and OpenRA's Dune2000 mod still does not have a singleplayer mission at all...

- Some missions were made, and later removed in later playtest versions.

- A lot of map designers and scripters have opted to make their own maps, missions and scripted challenges. Why remake someone else's work when I can do my own?

 

 

OpenRA is very focused on the multiplayer, which is great for many players who seek the old game.

OpenRA needs no story, and needs no campaign, because it is a familiar decade-old concept.

There is no need to explain Allies and Soviets, no need to explain GDI and the Brotherhood of Nod. Westwood has done that.

The nostalgia on a newer platform/engine (amidst the balance changes) is one of OpenRA's selling points.

 

Mental Omega's current beauty lies in its campaign and accompanying lore to retell the story of Yuri's Revenge. 

We show a lot more campaign and coops than PvP.

Our units, structures and factions have a little story to tell.

We continue to use a decade-old engine without losing much of our sparkle.

 

The question of Ares/Rockpatch features may not be as big of a problem, since a lot of Ares features are based in other C&C games (quite a few are based in TS). Other features are up to OpenRA developers.

 

 

I feel that discussion on OpenMO could wait, at least until OpenRA has rolled out its take on RA2 and/or Yuri's Revenge, so that we can see their scripting model in action, and features they intend to use for RA2. Then it may be possible to justify any move into OpenRA.

 

I, for one, will be eager to observe the AI in OpenRA's RA2 mod.

[Graion Dilach]

The OpenRA TD mod uses individual queues.

The developers themselves (and a handful of mission scripters, Biofreak1987 lately) are remaking the missions, but asking for TS ones when half of the defining TS logics are missing are nonsense. Apparently RA and TD are being concentrated to get the missions back at this point (next release will have 6 more TD missions). Also atreides01 and 02 are converted over among the Dune2000 missions.

There was only one time missions were removed and that was when the old mission API was dropped (which was one giant hardcoded C# mess written for each mission) in favor of the new Lua system, which meant these missions also need to be reconverted. There are also only two OpenRA-specific missions which are abandoned that way (those being OpenRA "allies03" and "allies04", since "allies01" was a redundant copy of the classic allies01 (might return as a difficulty setting though)and the "allies02" aka Evacuation got converted over in the current dev cycle). Custom missions will probably find ways to be introduced in the release longterm as well following these examples.

It sounds to me that you're basing your information on an outdated version of OpenRA, probably the 2015 summer version.

EDIT: Regarding OpenRA vs Ares features, the two most important features are kinda done already (AttachEffect exists, can affect ROF and range alongside the rest and aircraft speeds as well while the moreweapon-workaround via abusing CyclicGattling isn't needed anymore) and a lot of the Ares additions to the related TS-YR features tend to come in during their reimplementation as well.

Edited by Graion Dilach, 21 June 2016 - 08:01 AM.

[lovalmidas]

Thanks for the feedback, I was indeed somewhat outdated on the information; I do see some Dune2000 missions in my still outdated version of OpenRA, which is based last year (and I think may be more recent than my MO version, haha lol). Other than that I read some of the changelogs in the OpenRA site and watch viceo commentaries on balance changes.

 

That might have introduced a bias in my thinking that OpenRA is multiplayer focused. Perhaps I should watch less of FiveAce's/SoScared's commentaries and actually play. :S

 

 

 

I know that OpenRA TD uses individual factory queues, which is different from original TD. The point is that the design choices that goes into a mod is not as challenging as some may think, and it still stands.

 

 

I meant RA1 and TD campaign. What a beautiful typo, what was I thinking asking for TS with (last I saw) OP Jumpjet Infantry? xD

 

It is nice to see development the singleplayer aspect in OpenRA. I understand there are many issues to be worked out before the platform is mature enough to handle the complexity of mission scripting. And yes, I was referring to that one time the LUA was implemented. At least it was done early. Had there been more missions made, the impact would be far greater. 

 

I am confident that OpenRA may implement many Ares features, and I am basing my opinion on the fact that Ares has been implementing many features from other C&C and RTS games, many of which are interesting in their own right. And even if not all Ares features are implemented, as modders, we can think of something to fit in.

 

My main point is that any consideration for a OpenMO may have to wait until the RA2/YR mod is up with a good level of maturity. Unlike RA2/YR engine, OpenRA is continuously in development, and it can be risky standing on a foundation that shifts around. A 'wait-and-see' approach, if you'd like.

 

Despite that, I look forward to more OpenRA.

Edited by lovalmidas, 21 June 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[Graion Dilach]

OpenRA is development-focused and it takes less effort to polish/expand the code than creating missions. It's not like the platform couldn't handle the complexity of a mission though, it's more often than not that the required feat (if there is any) just isn't exposed to Lua from the underlying code. (Just compare the sheer length of https://github.com/O...RA/wiki/Lua-API with https://github.com/O...nRA/wiki/Traits for starters.)

The MP focus feel comes from the fact that the active community is indeed MP oriented, but looking at a full changelog should imply that the developers aren't strictly trying to please only them (if that would be true, even D2k wouldn't have happened). The balance changes are actually implemented by the player community (something I have bad experience with, the TD balancer is as bright as zlixine, and after I snipped at him for not even grasping a c'n'p code as a solution to his problem, the community called me names).

Edited by Graion Dilach, 22 June 2016 - 12:34 PM.

[jony121]

And idk if it's allowed maybe even charge for it?

 

Yes that's allowed. The code is GPL which allows charging money but code must also be available for the corresponding binary. Simply maintaining a fork in an open repository would do. If assets are owned then they can also be charged for. Keeping code and data separate with strict ownership (no redistribution rights) over data would allow more traditional sale and product control, without DRM of course. Commercial games like this are not uncommon, you may have heard of Steel Storm, Frogatto and Penumbra to name a few.

Not to mention alternative methods such as crowd funding.

 

It's a shame it's unfeasible. I think the biggest benefit would have been the cross platform capabilities, opening up to new users. God knows Mac users are most in need.

[Graion Dilach]

Wine(skins) is your friend though, I managed to play Ares-enhanced YR mods on a Linux.

[Ethan Heller]

Well Ok But Will There Be A New Mental Omega With A Command And Conquer General Engine

[Speeder]

No.

[Ethan Heller]

No.

Other Engine?

[Eternity 6]

 

No.

Other Engine?

 

I'm quite sure that the answer is no.

 

Simply put , changing the engine this late in the mod's life cycle is not worth the effort . I'm certain Speeder and the Mentalmisters would also like to move onto other games and work . Modding the same game for years must get taxing among other things .

[Shelbythetriagularsquare]

Maybe in MO 4.0?

[Ethan Heller]

Speeder And Mentalmister Why Dont You Just Should Do A Red Alert 3 Engine When You Done Making Mod At Red Alert 2 Engine

 

Thats Should Be Called Mental Omega 1 In Ra 2. But Ra 3 It Should Can Be Called Mental Omega 2

 

If You Build Mental Omega 2 In Ra 3 Engine Will You Do A Prequel Or Sequel Mission

 

Will You Make Yuri And Foehn Faction Are Return In Mental Omega 2?

Edited by Ethan Heller, 13 July 2017 - 01:33 PM.

[CLAlstar]

Please, for gods sake, all those questions were answered already. And stop writing every word starting with capital letter because it makes you look dumb.

 

Port to ORA/RA3 WONT happen. Thats all.

[Shelbythetriagularsquare]

Please, for gods sake, all those questions were answered already. And stop writing every word starting with capital letter because it makes you look dumb.

 

Port to ORA/RA3 WONT happen. Thats all.

Maybe he's foreign and used google translate to write out his post?

 

I don't know why his post angered you so much he just asked a question.

[Lud0wig]

 

Please, for gods sake, all those questions were answered already. And stop writing every word starting with capital letter because it makes you look dumb.

 

Port to ORA/RA3 WONT happen. Thats all.

Maybe he's foreign and used google translate to write out his post?

 

I don't know why his post angered you so much he just asked a question.

 

Google translated sentences always have words written in capital letters in the beginning of them? It's annoying

[Shelbythetriagularsquare]

Google translated sentences always have words written in capital letters in the beginning of them? It's annoying

 

ًWell, no but maybe he thinks that the way our grammar works? I don't know but it's still just a question, nothing to get slightly angry over.