5129 replies to this topic

[Tathmesh]

Typically T1 has low-tech weapons. Foehn tanks for example use ReLoaders that just shoot normal guns.

I think if Naval has a tech-tree progression, iconic tech ought to show up at T2 or T3. But maybe not!

Some more boat ideas:

PF Avalanche - T2 - A remote controlled drone that races to the target and trigger an ice explosion that renders all targets in the area frozen.

Epsilon Neuromancer - T3 - A parasitic ship/infantry that "enters" a boat and controls it. When the boat is destroyed, the Neuromancer respawns.

HQ Hydra - T3 - The pinnacle of HQ animal experimentation. This is the final evolution of the spook, a horrific monstrosity with hunger for ship scrap. Can heal itself when it destroys ships.

Foehn (Lie)Pleurodon - T3 - Foehn battleship equivalent that fires an array of golden rockers, allowing it to attack both air and ground. When deployed, acts as an incredibly long range SODAR array but cannot fire.

Haihead Siren - T3 - Armed with several sonic arrays, allowing to attack air and sea. When deployed, release an extremely high frequency vibration that weakens the armour of enemy boats around it.

Edited by Tathmesh, 17 November 2017 - 02:18 PM.

[Solais]

Maybe with this, the old MO 1.2 idea of naval defenses could be revisited. For instead, Tidewave Defense for the Soviets, which is basically a smaller version of the Hammer, only placeable on water and causing tidal waves; just like that Hammer Ship idea from before.

 

There might be also an alternate Tech Structure for Naval-based progression, so the player would have to choose between which Tech to pursue depending on the map style. So for instance, Allies could have a Port Authority building (placed on land), that unlocks the Naval Tier 2/3. Soviets could have a Submarine Pen attachment to the Naval Shipyard. Epsilon could have the Aquaplug for the Pandora Hub. Foehn could have a naval building called the "Atlantis Colony". (Which comes from the old theory that Foehn was Atlantis. )

[StolenTech]

I think epsilon is bloated with naval especially Psicorps; since half of their unique arsenal and even heroine are amphibious.
 

Foehn are pretty much complete with what they currently have, not to mention that you can actually use their naval siege ship to attack other units because of how the orbs the drone shoot follow their targets and deal quite a damage.

 

soviets for sure need new units, their naval arsenal is nothing to brag about, typhoons can be so unreliable since they can miss even if the target moved half a cell, they have a slow Torpedo and even if it manages to land some shots it barely does anything, not to mention soviets have no real answer to squid spam.

and no. borillos don't dent squids.

[Kirov_Fury]

Here are my suggestions for faction based ships
Allies:
USA: ZUMWALT destroyer that can target both air and naval targets with prism cannon, shall replace AEGIS if deemed overpowered
EURO Alliance: Stealth Corvette that becomes invisible in radar and armed with guided missiles-see real life swedish VISBY class corvette.
PACIFIC FRONT: Manta sub (i assume that it existed in RA3) that can fly upon deploy button, armed with crobeams

Soviets:
Russia: Tesla destroyer (name says it all)
China: Turtle ship (which is basically a floating battle tortoise that has infantry slots)
Latins: Inferno Fast attack craft: Similar size as piranha mini sub, cheap to build armed with an mg for seals, dolphins and also napalm launchers. (Looks similar to Vanilla RA2 Scorpion)

EPSILON:
PsiCorps: Ctulhu submersible: Mastermind submarine that has to surface to mind control units, has a hallucination device that multiplies the allied units nearby (only to cause confusion as multiplied units are only siluettes)
Epsilon HQ: Kraken: which is an enhanced giant squid that does more damage (i have to think more for an additional feature)
Scorpion Cell: Skiff: Which is similar to inferno boat of latins that has a grinder infront of it that scavenges enemy boats and turns them into resources (based on solais idea)
Skiff 2: Runs into enemy ship and hijacks it, invented by Rashidi's Somalian proselytes
What do you think

Edit: Kraken description

Edited by Kirov_Fury, 17 November 2017 - 02:14 PM.

[TrollWarlord]

Some ideas for naval expansion:

Allies:
All: Riptide - Tier 1 amphibious boat armed with MGs and mini-torpedoes. Destroyer will be placed at T2. (Similar to RA3 Riptide)

USA: Laser Destroyer - T3 battleship. Multi-purpose warship armed with laser cannons capable of attacking both naval and aerial targets and painting them for more damage. 

EA: Warmaster - T3 battleship. Slow but durable battleship equiped with prism refractors, similar to Prism Tanks, but with higher damage.

PF: Shogun Battleship - T3 battleship. Armed with cryo-cannons that can slow the movement and weaken the armor of ground targets when hit.

Soviets:
All: Stingray - T1 fast-attack boat armed with short-ranged tesla coils. Typhoons will be placed at T2. (Similar to RA3 Stingray)

All: Demo Boat - T2 suicide boat similar to demo trucks.
Russia: Overlord - T3 fast-attack ship armed with tesla-enhanced tri-cannons. Can be affected by overcharge.
China: Tidehunter - T3 slow but durable warship armed with ship-portable hammer defense, capable of slowing down ships.

Foehn
All: Tigershark - T1 fast attack ship armed with reloader cannons. Can receive speed buffs from spinblade. Swordfish will be placed at T2.
All: (cant decide name ATM) - T2 support ship equiped with ECM capable of jamming enemy attacks. Basically a naval Racoon minus the signal jammer.
LB: (cant decide name ATM) - T3 warship armed with long-ranged dual railguns against ground and sea-based targets and golden rockets for anti-air.
HH: (cant decide name ATM) - T3 stealth ship armed with bond breakers that weakens both ground/naval units and structures.

Edit: Some descriptions.

Edited by TrollWarlord, 17 November 2017 - 05:07 PM.

[CalmPhill]

Has it been discussed how Haihead's heroes Fin and Alize's self healing is still pretty absurd? In a match today, I had three buzzards and around 7 knight frames all focus firing on Fin and his health would sink into the yellow for a split second, but for the most part stay in the green because of how fast he was healing. The Haihead player even stopped paying attention to him, Fin just stood there next to Alize, no problem. Why not only give them slow passive healing like other hero units? 

 

Also, I'm still really torn about the MADMAN unit. I kinda like the idea of "wonder if we had a unit that could do THAT and somehow still be balanced?" It's really cool, but at the same time, I think it's too unforgiving. If the Haihead player has a big enough army to defend it, the match devolves to the other player targeting the MADMAN at all costs as it approaches their base and this doesn't really give the other player a choice in how to handle the situation. I feel nerfing its speed or hp might help. Perhaps it could do less damage to buildings further away from the center blast so the game wouldn't just end if the MADMAN is a success? 

 

And lastly, does anyone think Clairvoyants are still a problem? A group of 8 or 10 can pretty much get through most defenses, unless you have a major group of troops just waiting by a wallless structure. Getting cash stolen is a big problem I keep running into with them. With spies, a few dogs near your refineries will serve you well, but with Clairs, you gotta make sure you have 7+ turrets piled up around your refinery. A big hp nerf seems reasonable. 

Edited by CalmPhill, 20 November 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Handepsilon]

FinAlize healing is broken in 3.3.2. Instead of getting nerfed, the rate is getting buffed by... what, 2x? 1.5x?

 

 

Perhaps it could do less damage to buildings closer to the center of the blast so the game wouldn't just end if the MADMAN is a success?

 

It already does that. Most people who has the slightest idea about MADMAN mechanic would never detonate them in the middle of their prioritized target

Edited by Handepsilon, 20 November 2017 - 08:08 AM.

[Tathmesh]

Maybe the healing ring should be toggleable by deploy, except FinAlize can't attack while the ring is up (I feel like this was suggested before).

This would create windows of weakness where FinAlize can be killed easily if you have poor micro, but still keep their ridiculous healing and damage potential.

Edited by Tathmesh, 20 November 2017 - 01:06 PM.

[CalmPhill]

Maybe the healing ring should be toggleable by deploy, except FinAlize can't attack while the ring is up (I feel like this was suggested before).

This would create windows of weakness where FinAlize can be killed easily if you have poor micro, but still keep their ridiculous healing and damage potential.

 

This could be interesting, but if there were to be a simpler change, their healing needs some kind of nerf.... It's just so annoying when units don't demand much from the player to do extremely well with them. 

 

 

FinAlize healing is broken in 3.3.2. Instead of getting nerfed, the rate is getting buffed by... what, 2x? 1.5x?

 

 

Perhaps it could do less damage to buildings closer to the center of the blast so the game wouldn't just end if the MADMAN is a success?

 

It already does that. Most people who has the slightest idea about MADMAN mechanic would never detonate them in the middle of their prioritized target

 

Wait why is FinAlize healing getting buffed? 

 

So the MADMAN does more damage to things on the outside of the blast?? I think it should be the opposite. It ends matches way too easily. 

[Handepsilon]

FinAlize got buffed because of mathematical error when trying to nerf it, so the end result was the opposite of the intention. It was an accident

 

I do think that MADMAN is way a bit too destructive for its' price, added to the fact that you cannot cancel the detonation when it starts deploying. Even though epic units do get lesser repair rate, it's still hard to destroy it especially when escorted by minermites

[Divine]

Hey @Speeder, here's a meta suggestion. You keep teasing us with upcoming maps, but who knows when the next MO update comes? The game has a neat client, with a neat updater,  could it be utilized to supply us with the newest multiplayer/skirmish maps, without having to wait for the rest of the update? It's not like new multiplayer maps are added daily, I think everyone would be willing to spend a bit of time updating their game for this.

Edited by Divine, 23 November 2017 - 10:15 PM.

[StolenTech]

you can get most of said maps if you know where to look 

[TeslaCruiser]

I have a suggestion about Engineer "Rush" or engi cap
I think it is too easy to do and quite reliable even if the player is paying attention to his base
First, there is a suitable tool in every arsenal to do it IMHO drillers and jackals are the hardest to stop. But a sneaky tigr or stallion can be just as effective.
Second the deploy un-deploy additional delay introduced in 3.3.2 makes both MCVs more vulnerable and defenses slower to respond
Third walls suck in this game.
My suggestion is to make this strat harder to perform by increasing the time it takes to cap a building: so you still need 3 engineers but you can't send all three engineers at once instead you need to wait a bit between one engi and the next one.
A more simple idea is to increase the engi count but probably not the best idea.

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 24 November 2017 - 05:18 PM.

[Divine]

Speaking of walls that suck, IMHO they both need a buff to their strength along with gates, and the bug that causes AA missiles to damage walls on the ground, bellow where the missiles detonate in the sky, needs a fix. I think it can be done by tampering with warhead effectiveness. 

Edited by Divine, 24 November 2017 - 06:39 PM.

[Endless]

I have a suggestion about Engineer "Rush" or engi cap
I think it is too easy to do and quite reliable even if the player is paying attention to his base
First, there is a suitable tool in every arsenal to do it IMHO drillers and jackals are the hardest to stop. But a sneaky tigr or stallion can be just as effective.
Second the deploy un-deploy additional delay introduced in 3.3.2 makes both MCVs more vulnerable and defenses slower to respond
Third walls suck in this game.
My suggestion is to make this strat harder to perform by increasing the time it takes to cap a building: so you still need 3 engineers but you can't send all three engineers at once instead you need to wait a bit between one engi and the next one.
A more simple idea is to increase the engi count but probably not the best idea.

I can see that rendering the Engie rush an impossible thing to pull off provided anyone takes just a single snap at his base.

 

Of course, in some sense the engie rush is meant to punish players that aren't aware of the events/actions taken against their base.

Even then, I don't really see the purpose of the change you're suggesting because engie rushes can be dealt with fairly easily provided you're not bankrupt.

[TeslaCruiser]

With proper micro -not a hard thing to do- you can make all three engies work like a single one since all three enter the building at the same time.
That and the amount of engi rush i've seen lately is the reason for my suggestion.
I usually use drillers and it only takes a little distraction to make it work. Also, you can keep the driller traveling until the opportunity appears.
There is an Chinese guy -i´m guessing he is chinese- who try every game to jakal-engi you. Yes, you can be prepared but he will almost always get some building or force a sell.
Not to mention the disgusting engi HQ tank
If you read my comment there is a mention about 3.3.2 defenses nerf and I think that is part of the reason for this thing happening so often.

[mevitar]

Is it the same guy that lets everyone in the lobby chat know how many wins he got and wants others to challenge him?

Dogs and Spooks should be used when there's a potential Engineer rush incoming, as they're guaranteed to always target Engineers, not the transport (they're also the best anti-infantry Soviet have until Pyros ). Of course, they're unusable when the transport has an anti-infantry weapon, but against those, walls give complete protection.
Except for Jackals, which can destroy walls, and AFAIK, there's no way for us to fix it yet.

Your first suggestion is impossible to implement (there's no way to control that), and the second i don't think has any chance of going through.

Also, if Engineers would be changed, there are still Ivans and SEALs, which can do the same as an engineer rush, but aren't used-up after killing one structure. If not for Engineers, people will be still forced to build walls for those two (and for things like Borololo rushes).

Edited by mevitar, 25 November 2017 - 02:46 AM.

[TeslaCruiser]

Haha, no it is not him. This player is a fine lad who happens to main WC

Yeah well the difference between a bomb and an engi is the ability to start building on enemies base. And there is some nasty things you can start building on his base.

In my opinion, it is too easy to do ATM and the reward can be huge considering how little it costs + engi is T1.

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 25 November 2017 - 03:38 AM.

[ZunZero97]

-ive played Foehn factions and Coronia needs an aerial unit who makes a huge damage on ground targets Huge damage=Long reaload time who can be overwhelmed by anti-air infantry

 

-Alanqa's skystation is too expensive what it does

 

-Huntress is much better than Zorbttrotter about it does, i mean Huntress can hijack vehicles and attack infantry, and makes Zobttrotter something low about they does. I Suggest making Zorbttroter an Siege unit and anti-naval capabilities and amphibious.

 

Foehn faction doesnt have a decent scout unit, they need an aerial scout unit who detects stealth and disguised units unarmed could be fine.

[PACER]

-ive played Foehn factions and Coronia needs an aerial unit who makes a huge damage on ground targets Huge damage=Long reaload time who can be overwhelmed by anti-air infantry
 
-Alanqa's skystation is too expensive what it does
 
-Huntress is much better than Zorbttrotter about it does, i mean Huntress can hijack vehicles and attack infantry, and makes Zobttrotter something low about they does. I Suggest making Zorbttroter an Siege unit and anti-naval capabilities and amphibious.
 
Foehn faction doesnt have a decent scout unit, they need an aerial scout unit who detects stealth and disguised units unarmed could be fine.

The only suggestion I can make about this is, play as/against WC in multiplayer first