5129 replies to this topic

[TerumasaReal]

Just found that in version 3.0, Strategy Center is buildable in Allied Mission 06 Beautiful Mind... which means that Bloodhounds and Airborne is usable in this mission. In this case, can the prerequisite of Drop Control in this mission be adjusted? After all, Warhawk is available to build by capturing the Secret Lab without Mercury Uplink.

[Attenpeter]

@ OfficialLollicon

 

Would prefer 5-8 actually, but the countdown thing demands a lot of work for it to happen.

I my mind 5-8 would be a bit to short remember you will most likely capture the lab 1-3 min into the game on maps where the tec-lab is not placed on Islands, even then it would mean you way to fast with 5-8 min. 

 

In fact, it also sounds impossible since it would demand all maps that has a tech lab to have at least 8+(unknown amount of additional triggers.

I have sadly not really knowledge how it would work with triggers, i though you dont need map triggers, i through it work something like this: SW timer like the SW weapons (i could be wrong here but SW timers are not a map trigger or not?) After it givers you simply the build option, if that does not work maybe the Fieldbureau logic could be abused? 

 

Why not just have the tier-3 infantry instant, if they have a tier 3 building?

i also though about give the giving the player the build option if they reach t3 but it make the tec-rush meta even worse so i thought the 10-12 min would be a good solution you can try stay t1 or t2 get map control and finish the enemy without the need to tec up.

 

@ Divine

 

How about making super units build-able with TSL as epic units (BuildLimit=1)? Super Apocalypse for Soviets, Super Thor for Allies, 

It would be redundant to implement something like Super Thor and Super apocs in mp in my mind, there are already the normal versions in mp also having more hero units would not benefit the game its already hero unit heavy. 

There would also need other counters for every unique units (THOR flies super apoc not). So to keep it simply spam-able infantry which all have the same counters and are good vs the same units groups would be fitting more to keep the tec-lab balanced.

So all should have a cost efficient counter like infantry killers (plague splatters, prismtanks , virus , Riottroopers , zorbfloater, ...) ,Hero units (morales, tanja, Libra ...) , And fling anti infantry killers (buzzards , Floating discs , Rocketeers ...) to keep then from being game breaking op, while being a good anti  ground in general. Also for balance reason they should take all 2 slots in transports.

 

@ NorthfireZ

 

How about adding on Attenpeeter's idea by making the lab work more like a tech reinforcement pad. At the end of the timer, it'll spawn one commando unit at the base of the building.

also not bad the idea to let it work like a tec reinforcement pat but it should spawn small groups (3-5) of then instead of one to keep it different from heroes. Also they should not be arrive vs play and instead simply spawn like drakuv. 

The placement of the tec-labs on most maps should be revised as well, please no tec-lab in the corner behind the player

Edited by Attenpeter, 10 November 2018 - 01:28 PM.

[Divine]

Something about the Hunter-Seeker: maybe its laser should be replaced with a cryo beam, just so it would better fit PF's theme.

[OfficialLolicon]

@ OfficialLollicon

 

Would prefer 5-8 actually, but the countdown thing demands a lot of work for it to happen.

I my mind 5-8 would be a bit to short remember you will most likely capture the lab 1-3 min into the game on maps where the tec-lab is not placed on Islands, even then it would mean you way to fast with 5-8 min. 

 

In fact, it also sounds impossible since it would demand all maps that has a tech lab to have at least 8+(unknown amount of additional triggers.

I have sadly not really knowledge how it would work with triggers, i though you dont need map triggers, i through it work something like this: SW timer like the SW weapons (i could be wrong here but SW timers are not a map trigger or not?) After it givers you simply the build option, if that does not work maybe the Fieldbureau logic could be abused? 

 

Why not just have the tier-3 infantry instant, if they have a tier 3 building?

i also though about give the giving the player the build option if they reach t3 but it make the tec-rush meta even worse so i thought the 10-12 min would be a good solution you can try stay t1 or t2 get map control and finish the enemy without the need to tec up.

 

 

2) SWs can work actually, but it demands a lot of SWs (not just one) for each faction (a  total of 4), and additional gimmicks to remove it in special cases (such as missions or a prerequisite is no longer satisfied). SW timers are connected to the SWs itself, but you can also create a timer using triggers as well. In short, both would still require a lot of work. The Field Bureau logic is not possible since it requires the infantry to be send into it, and since the Tech Lab will just provide it (not requiring an infantry to be send inside it), the logic can't be used.

 

1 & 3) Pretty good. It's basically a high risk and high reward tech building? Sounds like a Tech Satellite actually.

[Solais]

For Foehn naval defense, maybe instead of just Sonic Emitter on water, it could be called like, Fish Trap. A building that shoots nano-fiber threads that doesn't do that much damage as the other versions of this weapon, but instead, cover the ships in a nigh impossible to break nano-net, immobilizing them.

[Verthunder]

Hello,

 

I have big suggestion for 'mental creators' I thought about it from the moment when I first time played MO 3.0.

 

IDEA:

In Shirmish mode make special button "on/off Support Powers" (see PNG attached) then mo players can make decision to disable it or not.

To disable/enable "support  powers" like:

-Hunter-seeker, Zephyrobot (Pacific Front), Force Shield , 'Mercury strike  and target printer from USA'

-overcharge(Russia)smokebomb , flametower , Motor Ambush (Latin Conf) EMpulse and Wallbuster (China) (SOVIET)

-Magnetic Beam , Toxic Strike, Bloatick Trap , Quick Fort , Geneburst , Barrier , Risen Inferno  (EPSILON)

-Blackout , Signaljammer , Harbinger support (*?)  , Quetzal Shield , Nanocharge (FOEHN)

(I do not include support powers like Raven , Satelite Scan , Spy Plane)

 

Gameplay with disabled "support powers" will be very similar to the old Red Alert 2 & YR gameplays.

Now MO gameplay reminds Red Alert 3 when we have a lot of supper powers. I dont say its bad idea.

 

Gameplay with disabled "support powers" might be unbalanced. I know about it some fracions are more dependent on "support powers"

Its the main reason why i think thats idea is very hard to implement.

 

Whatever , The main idea is very interesting. What do you think ?

 

Kamil

 

Attached Thumbnails

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[Meyerm]

I like this idea. Makes things more dependent on units and an air tight base perimeter. 

[Divine]

Hello,

 

I have big suggestion for 'mental creators' I thought about it from the moment when I first time played MO 3.0.

 

IDEA:

In Shirmish mode make special button "on/off Support Powers" (see PNG attached) then mo players can make decision to disable it or not.

To disable/enable "support  powers" like:

-Hunter-seeker, Zephyrobot (Pacific Front), Force Shield , 'Mercury strike  and target printer from USA'

-overcharge(Russia)smokebomb , flametower , Motor Ambush (Latin Conf) EMpulse and Wallbuster (China) (SOVIET)

-Magnetic Beam , Toxic Strike, Bloatick Trap , Quick Fort , Geneburst , Barrier , Risen Inferno  (EPSILON)

-Blackout , Signaljammer , Harbinger support (*?)  , Quetzal Shield , Nanocharge (FOEHN)

(I do not include support powers like Raven , Satelite Scan , Spy Plane)

 

Gameplay with disabled "support powers" will be very similar to the old Red Alert 2 & YR gameplays.

Now MO gameplay reminds Red Alert 3 when we have a lot of supper powers. I dont say its bad idea.

 

Gameplay with disabled "support powers" might be unbalanced. I know about it some fracions are more dependent on "support powers"

Its the main reason why i think thats idea is very hard to implement.

 

Whatever , The main idea is very interesting. What do you think ?

 

Kamil

 

 

Playing an unmodified game against multiple AI opponents is pure cancer thanks to unavoidable damage dealing support power spam. Most of the game consists of playing whack-a-mole with the wrench tool, clicking on buildings damaged by said "support" powers, regardless of how well-defended the base is. I've been asking for an option to disable that crap since the day they appeared. With things that don't deal damage by themselves I have no issue.

 

I think support powers should be divided to multiple categories, like offensive, reinforcements, reconaissance, and real support, then options should be implemented for at the very least disabling offensive support powers.

Edited by Divine, 15 November 2018 - 01:51 AM.

[Petya]

I wonder whether sooner or later these ideas reach the point of "Disabling MO units" and then "Disabling YR units" so you can play vanilla RA2 in HD.

[Divine]

I wonder whether sooner or later these ideas reach the point of "Disabling MO units" and then "Disabling YR units" so you can play vanilla RA2 in HD.

>inb4 vanilla RA2/YR with MO graphics are implemented as a gamemodes for real

Edited by Divine, 15 November 2018 - 01:41 PM.

[Meyerm]

I would imagine it would take a complete rewrite given (I'm pretty sure) every single unit has had its stats and abilities altered in some way for MO. Sounds too tedious for a reversion to vanilla YR with all its quirks and half assed Yuri faction. 

[Divine]

I would imagine it would take a complete rewrite given (I'm pretty sure) every single unit has had its stats and abilities altered in some way for MO. Sounds too tedious for a reversion to vanilla YR with all its quirks and half assed Yuri faction. 

It was just a joke.

[Handepsilon]

A joke that most of us who knows the inner working of MO thinks is too ridiculous to even suggest, tbh

However, that might be a good time to call the custom mappers to ask a challenge about it. Vanilla YR balance vs. MO Balance.

Edited by Handepsilon, 16 November 2018 - 02:51 AM.

[LunaMoon]

For Foehn naval defense, maybe instead of just Sonic Emitter on water, it could be called like, Fish Trap. A building that shoots nano-fiber threads that doesn't do that much damage as the other versions of this weapon, but instead, cover the ships in a nigh impossible to break nano-net, immobilizing them.

That sounds nice as well. Hmm... 

Here's my proposal for each faction's naval force.

 

NAVAL DEFENSE

 

Allied Nations:

•  ASROC System (Anti-Submarine ROCket) - capable of launching both torpedoes/depth charges and surface-to-surface rockets. Use base power. Medium range. Each system can be upgraded with Power Plant's power turbine. Once upgraded, HP is increased and the system is independent of base power.  Strength: Submarine detector. Upgradable. Most durable coastal defence after receiving an upgrade. Unit profile: Used mostly on Allied old cruiser models and were deemed to be retired, these anti-submarine systems were ushered back into service as a coastal defence system by the Allied when the Soviet outgun them on all fronts. The Allied has learned from the Vandenberg Air Force Base incident that the Soviet can sabotage them from the inside. So, an adjustment has been made on the naval system so that it can be upgraded with a power turbine to be independent of power in case the base power is sabotaged. 
• Europe Alliance: CIWS (Close-in weapon system) - consists of a Gatling gun and a built-in radar/ fire control system. Gatling gun, capable of mowing down aircraft & ships alike. Can also be upgraded with a Power turbine to be independent of power. Strength: AA. Durable when upgraded. None notable. Weakness: Shorter range and lower damage than Yuri's counterpart. Can not detect submarines. Costly.  Unit profile:  After Yuri and his flying fortress laid waste to almost entire England, the Allied needs a reliable naval point defence system to protect its navy from aerial threats.
• Pacific Front: Cryo Naval Mine - can damage and freeze ships for a long duration of time. Frozen enemies take more damage. Strength: cheap, crowd control, stealth Weakness: None notable. Unit profile: A product of KI cryo tech.
• United State: ???

 

Soviet Union:

•  Coastal Heli Pad - capable of launching a Ka-27 Helix anti-submarine & anti-ground gunship. The gunship drop depth charges against submarine and use rockets against ground targets. Use base power. Strength: longest in range amongst coastal defence, gunship pursues target until it is shot down or run of ammo. Submarine detector.  Weakness: the gunship can be shot down and cannot engage in air-to-air combat. Unit profile:  When the traitor Yuri and his submarines launched their attack across motherland Russia coastal cities, the Soviet commanders realized they need something to retaliate with Epsilon hit-and-run tactics. 
• China: Naval Service Depot - support structure. Repair nearby ships and submarines and boost their defence. Use base power. Strength: Repair nearby ships. Weakness: helpless against attackers.
• Russia: Flak tower - sort of flak cannon on water. Russia commanders will have a build option to 'reinforce' their naval flak tower, allowing 2 conscripts to garrison in it instantly. Strength: AA Naval defence. Upgradable. 
•  Latin Confederation: ??? I hope they don't have another smoke bomb launcher.

 

Yuri:

• Thermite launcher   - capable of launching jets of burning thermite against ship and submarines. The fire continues to burn even on and under water. Use base power. Hide underwater when not in use. Strength: High DPS. Quickly vaporize SEALs and swimming crazy Ivans. Submarine detector.  Weakness: Shortest in range of all coastal defence system. Resurface when the power is shut down. Unit profile: As the war rages on, the Epsilon Army see heavy casualties among their naval forces by the Allied navy SEAL's C4 charges and there were rumours that the Soviet started to train their crazy Ivans and their hero Boris to swim. So the Epsilon came up with thermite launcher - a nasty surprise for their enemies. The system is capable of hiding underneath the water and its thermite charges can burn on and under water, roasting infantry and burning through ship hulls.
• Epsilon HQ: Parasitic Octopi Nest: Deploy a self-destruct, psychically remote-controlled octopus to enemy ships. If the ship is severely damaged, the octopus can latch on to its control cabin and infect the crew, stealing the ship for the Epsilon army. Immediately control infantry ( Heroes and cyborg are damaged and immune to parasite effect) Strength: one-of-a-kind naval defence. Not defenceless against anti-mind controlled & robotic units. Weakness: cannot attack ground or air target. The octopus can be killed. The damaged ship can be unwittingly destroyed by friendly forces.  Unit profile: yet another unethical product of the epsilon army. 
• Psicorp: ??? mind control? kind of bland.
• Scorpion Cell:  ??? probably something cheap/ pirate since they are terrorist

Foehn:

• 'Fish Trap' - (Solais's idea) capable of  shooting nano-fiber threads that damage and react with the metal hull of the ship and coagulate the surrounding water, making its target stuck in a place. 
• Wing of Corona: 'Storm Eye' System - capable of manipulating the wind flow and the waves in the area, slowing down and periodically damaging enemy ships. Strength: AOE debuff and chip damage.  Weakness: T3. Use base power. Cannot damage and debuff submarines. Cannot damage ground targets.  Unit profile: Another prototype weapon based on Allied's Weather Control Machine blueprint.
• Last Bastion ???
• Haihead ???

 

This is all I got for now. How about you guys?

Edited by LunaMoon, 16 November 2018 - 04:30 AM.

[Meyerm]

A joke that most of us who knows the inner working of MO thinks is too ridiculous to even suggest, tbh

However, that might be a good time to call the custom mappers to ask a challenge about it. Vanilla YR balance vs. MO Balance.

 

I mean, it could probably be done. Just doesn't seem worthwhile from a multiplayer/skirmish standpoint. Though what I WOULD be interested to see is the original RA2/YR campaign but with MO tech. Or a remaster of the MO 2.0 campaign. 

[Polaris Starnor]

I know Guardian GI is working on remaking the vanilla missions in the MO discord, I think he has Trick or Treaty, Mind Games, and Power Play.

[Handepsilon]

He has Trick or Treaty, at the very least that I know well.

[Divine]

Suggestion of the day: on the Islands map (4) Zero Point, replace the neutral Allied Ore Refineries with Tech Refineries.

[Petya]

As much I'd love to Navy being overhauled, unfortunately it's quite likely to stay the way it was always, but nice ideas though.

[OfficialLolicon]

The Typhoon's Torpedoes really need a buff. 

I replayed Great Beyond and there are times where there torpedoes won't damage a naval mine even tho they're not moving. The Torpedoes sometimes go too far or explode too early.

 

(TBH, I have no idea why this happened. It also happends in skirmish)