5129 replies to this topic

[flack]

There are too few players to play coop whenever you want. Often the wait time is very long. Please make it so AI can be your partner.

 

Also Allied Mission 21 relentless, you should not be able to win just by waiting it out and defending (on mental difficulty ofcourse). Right now teal can just kill the enemy base for you if you just defend.

Edited by flack, 25 July 2021 - 08:46 PM.

[Opus Custom Tank]

Can we have "can't damage walls Tyrant"?

[JackGranger]

My suggestions for Experimental Warpshop reinforcements besides Paladin Aid:

United States: Summon a few Avengers armed with AA lasers, target painters and boosting armor of nearby friendly vehicles (explained as PDL in lore). I believe the key weakness of US arsenal is low hitpoints of their T3 vehicles, which make them vulnerable to AOE bombardment and high-durability enemies. Those glass cannons could use some defence boosters, like Avengers I suggest. Avenger's weaponry fits the lore very well too, since US tech is mainly about lasers.

Pacific Front: Summon a few Future Tank X-0s. Battle Tortoises loaded with GGIs are expensive, slow and have short range compared to other T3 anti-armor units, while Zephyrs' DPS is rather low when countering heavy armor. Future Tank X-0s are fast, immune to mind-control and deal high AOE damage at long range. Since they only come in limited numbers via a support power, they would not largely replace Battle Tortoises as Pacific T3 monster tanks. They even might sync well since Tortoises can tank damage for X-0s to deal burst damage from behind.

Edited by JackGranger, 12 August 2021 - 06:09 AM.

[JackGranger]

Another suggestion: adjust the Apocalypse Tank's lore a little bit, describe them as Russia's super-duper-experimental, limited-in-number tanks rather than some abandoned design.
The current lore claims they're outdated relics and surpassed by Tesla Cruisers and Catastrophes for the latter are more cost-effective, while what we really got are some all-rounder, extremely powerful tanks which only cost $2000. Sure, the price tag may not be lore-wise and you could say something like they're too high maintenance, but such argument is pale in comparison to their in-game performance. Furthermore, the current lore makes Russia's enemies look stupid since almost everything in their brand new arsenal is beaten by an old Russian design. And those Tesla cannons themselves are shouting "we are cutting-edge" out loud!

Edited by JackGranger, 12 August 2021 - 06:10 AM.

[Handepsilon]

 Furthermore, the current lore makes Russia's enemies look stupid since almost everything in their brand new arsenal is beaten by an old Russian design.

You can thank Yuri for that. You don't need newer arsenal when your enemy is turned upside down all around

[Reshy]

Playing through most of the soviet campaign so far and I have to say defensive structures in this mod are exceptionally durable.  Basic infantry are effectively useless against them even if they're anti-air due to the massive damage penalty they get versus defenses and the fairly quick repair rate.  Tanks are marginally effective against them, but due to their creation time and the AI's tendency to rebuild them the instant they go down it's usually better to ignore them and just rush the structures or power.  The main issue however is that most of your options for dealing with defensive structures are only on very specific units (the renamed V3 Launcher) and it's a very slow way to play.

 

Bomb buggies... I frankly can't find a use for except clearing garrisons.  They are loaded with foam against everything that doesn't seem to be a garrison structure.  Even with the massive damage bonus against enemy defenses, they regularly fail to do more than a third of their HP unless they're within spitting distance of that structure, so you need a lot of them.  However if you have too many together they blow each other up.  Despite how big and impressive the explosion is, vehicles and infantry just yawn them off more often than not, likely due to the bomb buggy having a damage fall off and most units having far greater health than the default game.  They're probably the worst unit in the game, I haven't tried demolition trucks but from what I've read on the wiki they have identical damage stats, demolition trucks are slightly more durable.

 

Elite units seem underwhelming, probably due to all units having more HP in general but the differences between an elite and non-elite seem very small.  This might be due to the elite regeneration not being scaled up to compensate for all units having more HP.  Other part of the issue is due to the elite units not getting a more generalist damaging weapon, so an elite infantry is still about as effective as a fresh from the barracks infantry against basically everything except other infantry. 

 

 

Also, personally speaking, not a fan of nerfing the soviet tanks, they're supposed to be the big tank enthusiasts but now that all of the basic tanks are nearly identical (rather than being cost and maneuverability vs power and durability) they now all feel really samey and it damages the feeling of the soviets.  Ditto with losing their Apocalypse tank, it just doesn't feel that good to not have a more expensive version of the basic rhino that can deal with most close-range units effectively.  Not a fan of the renamed Flaktrack's massive damage penalties, as while not the greatest unit all around they at least did decent damage for their cost and speed.  Now there's little reason to build them over the Borillo/Armadillo except for AA so it feels far less versatile.  Flak trooper is in the same position, they really should have been renamed to "rocket trooper" as they don't fire flak guns anymore but instead rocket projectiles.  Also a bit of a shame since their role now overlaps with the Tesla trooper in the anti-vehicle role rather than them being the soviet anti-infantry infantry as well as being effective against air units.  Said rocket troopers are also hilariously ineffectively against enemy infantry, to the point that it can break the AI if you have enough of them firing at infantry as it takes dozens to kill individual infantry units.  I really don't think that they should be that weak versus general infantry when you're dealing with explosions.

 

I'll need to play with the other factions to get their feel, but from what I've seen with some enemy tech, Guardian GIs are very capable units compared to the flak troopers.

[Handepsilon]

I believe some of your problems are due to using the units on the wrong target or in the wrong way. A lot of the units are tuned to be bad against things they're not counter of, and you're definitely going to be better off using flak troopers and conscripts inside battle bunkers. Tigrs and Halftracks still do decent job, although I prefer using Tigrs as early anti-air.

 

Defenses really go down easily if you use the right units, and most factions have anti-building infantries and vehicles in early stages. In Soviet's case, mass pyro or borillo rush (or both) can deal with them really easily. Tesla troopers are.... not exactly anti-vehicle. They're delegated more to anti ground-units. Speaking of tesla, you can still do mass tanks as Soviets. Russia in particular are well known for using Tesla Cruisers a lot, and they're really good against units, tanks especially due to the short-EMP.

 

Really you're not supposed to be massing Tier 1 in late game anymore. Mental Omega is not designed with RA2/YR balance in mind. You will need to forego that concept and think of the mod as a different game altogether

 

PS: Elite rank is nerfed considerably. It's not going to be the be-all end-all unit it was in RA2/YR. All you get is marginally boosted stats and no more

Edited by Handepsilon, 18 August 2021 - 02:11 PM.

[Reshy]

I believe some of your problems are due to using the units on the wrong target or in the wrong way. A lot of the units are tuned to be bad against things they're not counter of, and you're definitely going to be better off using flak troopers and conscripts inside battle bunkers. Tigrs and Halftracks still do decent job, although I prefer using Tigrs as early anti-air.

 

Defenses really go down easily if you use the right units, and most factions have anti-building infantries and vehicles in early stages. In Soviet's case, mass pyro or borillo rush (or both) can deal with them really easily. Tesla troopers are.... not exactly anti-vehicle. They're delegated more to anti ground-units. Speaking of tesla, you can still do mass tanks as Soviets. Russia in particular are well known for using Tesla Cruisers a lot, and they're really good against units, tanks especially due to the short-EMP.

 

Really you're not supposed to be massing Tier 1 in late game anymore. Mental Omega is not designed with RA2/YR balance in mind. You will need to forego that concept and think of the mod as a different game altogether

 

PS: Elite rank is nerfed considerably. It's not going to be the be-all end-all unit it was in RA2/YR. All you get is marginally boosted stats and no more

Well, the problem is that most units are only effective against one or two types of units, and everything else they throw sticks and harsh language at.  It makes the game much much slower with how long units can last if you don't have the perfectly effective unit at your disposal.  Time to Live on most units is insanely high versus ineffective attacks.

 

I know in the campaign you're sometimes not give any units that have effectiveness versus buildings.  So it's mostly mass units and suicide rush them.

 

 

So from what you're saying about tier 1 units is that "just mass your super units"?  Is that really all the depth the game has?  No point in your cheaper or earlier options?

 

 

 

Also why was elite nerfed?  That baffles me, RA2/YR used that as one of it's primary features to distinguish itself from other series. 

[flack]

Epsilon coop 12 backbitten is now a bit too easy on mental. Lots of mirage tanks and the initial path to the base along with the amount of enemy units + enemy attacks are toned down. I think they should be put back.

[mevitar]

So from what you're saying about tier 1 units is that "just mass your super units"?  Is that really all the depth the game has?  No point in your cheaper or earlier options?

I dunno, i find focus-firing T3 tanks with Archers tends to kill them very quickly. Like "poof and gone" quickly.
 

Also why was elite nerfed?  That baffles me, RA2/YR used that as one of it's primary features to distinguish itself from other series.

Because, unlike RA2/YR, spies are a common thing in multiplayer, and getting one spy into a War Factrory shouldn't immediately mean end of the game. Thus, veterancy got nerfed.

Edited by mevitar, 27 August 2021 - 10:04 PM.

[Reshy]

 

So from what you're saying about tier 1 units is that "just mass your super units"?  Is that really all the depth the game has?  No point in your cheaper or earlier options?

I dunno, i find focus-firing T3 tanks with Archers tends to kill them very quickly. Like "poof and gone" quickly.
 

Also why was elite nerfed?  That baffles me, RA2/YR used that as one of it's primary features to distinguish itself from other series.

Because, unlike RA2/YR, spies are a common thing in multiplayer, and getting one spy into a War Factrory shouldn't immediately mean end of the game. Thus, veterancy got nerfed.

 

I mean games should end at some point.

 

 

Regarding archers and other anti-tank units they're effective, but only sort of.  A mass of T3s seems like it's just the solution to most things with certain exceptions.  Plus T3s can usually just crush them if you're not using guardian GIs.  Main thing is your inabiility to use T1 units to beat enemies makes the game way slower than in RA2/YR.  Infantry basically have zero pushing power from what I've observed with some specific exceptions (Siege Cadre).

Edited by Reshy, 29 August 2021 - 03:02 PM.

[Handepsilon]

This really should just be seen as completely different game rather than RA2/YR++. It wasn't meant to be played like that

[Wargame-dono]

yeah tbh you should go back to vanilla YR this mod aint for you since you (probably) dont know the meta of this mod anyway

[Handepsilon]

I'd replace the 'don't know' with 'dislike'/'hate' because that came off as elitist. No offense though.

 

It really takes awhile to study how things work. Unlike most RTS, the campaign doesn't serve much as introduction to the game but rather act more as story-based challenges and lore-dump. You'll have less headache learning via Skirmish botmatch.

Edited by Handepsilon, 31 August 2021 - 04:00 AM.

[Malekron]

yeah tbh you should go back to vanilla YR this mod aint for you since you (probably) dont know the meta of this mod anyway

 

 

I'd replace the 'don't know' with 'dislike'/'hate' because that came off as elitist. No offense though.

 

It really takes awhile to study how things work. Unlike most RTS, the campaign doesn't serve much as introduction to the game but rather act more as story-based challenges and lore-dump. You'll have less headache learning via Skirmish botmatch.

He will get used to the balance of MO.

[Reshy]

yeah tbh you should go back to vanilla YR this mod aint for you since you (probably) dont know the meta of this mod anyway

I mean I've read the wiki, I understand where the mod developer was going with the mod.  However, just playing the campaign the game feels... slow.  Significantly so.

 

 

I'd replace the 'don't know' with 'dislike'/'hate' because that came off as elitist. No offense though.

 

It really takes awhile to study how things work. Unlike most RTS, the campaign doesn't serve much as introduction to the game but rather act more as story-based challenges and lore-dump. You'll have less headache learning via Skirmish botmatch.

Maybe that's the case, but it doesn't reflect well on the game with how slow and sloggy the campaign can get at times.  Turtling isn't an option, it's mandatory for much of the build maps.  Attacking the enemy bases is also super slow due to not only how much defenses have been buffed, but also just how many of them are strewn all over the place.  Most of this comes down to how most units just... aren't effective against defenses.  The defenses in this mod seem exceptionally strong.

Edited by Reshy, 02 September 2021 - 03:20 AM.

[Handepsilon]

On the contrary, the defenses are very much nerfed, at least in competitive play. Against bots, they're powerful, but aside from very very few exceptions, there are many ways to break through defenses, if not ignoring them completely.

 

• General : They're static, meaning that you can just flank them away, and with how open the maps are, it's not that hard to do it with any tanks. Their respective spies can also just sabotage the power plants.
• Allies : Can bypass them nearly completely with Jet/Barracuda + Black Widow. If Chronosphere is active, you can just port it some tank killers.
• Soviet : Russian Scud launcher and Chinese Centurion outranges them so well. Chinese wallbuster can just instakill them. Otherwise, Pyro/Borillo combo can usually do heavy damage. Kirov's useless unless you're doing frontal Stalin's Fist and have it on hold at 99%.
• Epsilon : HQ's Stalker is infantry, meaning T3 defenses are useless, while the rest gets outranged. Magnetron have decent range and can stop defending tanks on their track. Scorpion Cell's Tyrant are just better Devil's Tongue, and spamming Speeder Trikes to potshot some buildings can annoy a lot of people
• Foehn : Chinese (as in the nationality) players spoke a lot of this really cheesy strat of just spamming minermites and Jackal to kill pretty much any buildings. Otherwise, they have Kingsframe and Lancer as their faction-wide building killers, raccoon if you want to disable them completely, and if you have sea, Leviathan, which was infamous for being broken (maybe still is). MADMAN was also worth noting since placing them perfectly can oneshot MCV.

In campaign, I usually just try to either destroy one portion of defenses or in some cases just detour completely from them and find some weak-spot (Beautiful Mind for example has this cheeky back door spot with barrels everywhere). In most cases, I can at least finish them in 0:50 - 1:30  in Casual level.

 

If you want my tip on beating defenses, here's the ones I got

• T1 anti-infantry defenses are easily destroyed by T1 tank spam, though in most cases, the tanks should just ignore them altogether and beat the more vulnerable buildings unless you want your infantries to get through.
• T2 towers can be defeated by using spammed T1 anti tank infantries.... or in Soviet's case, Pyros. If you have the money, you can use T2 siege infantries too (Foehn's Lancer are both in this case). T3 defenses perform even worse against them, taking more hits and are more specialized against tanks. You can just run your infantries through those Allies Grand Cannon and take maybe 5 casualties out of 50 before that cannon is dust.
• Avoid engaging Anti-Air with air units, like at all. It's more of your loss than theirs.
• All T3 siege units are very much the best in their job. Do note that most can still be in range of T3 defenses (exceptions : Scud, Athena Cannon, Centurion). Some have T3 siege units in form of infantries though.
• If they still give you trouble, just pick off their power plants and conyard(s). Lines of defenses are useless without power if you can bring them down. Doesn't always apply, but it doesn't hurt to try first.

Edited by Handepsilon, 03 September 2021 - 06:57 AM.

[mrvecz]

 

 

• All T3 siege units are very much the best in their job. Do note that most can still be in range of T3 defenses (exceptions : Scud, Athena Cannon, Centurion). Some have T3 siege units in form of infantries though.

I never undestood this fringe logic in this mod. Mental Omega is unique in this that it has artillery units having inferor range than base defences with only few exceptions

Centurion is unique unit, Hailstorms and Scud Launchers do have better range and actually feel on a completely new level when compared to all other artilerry units and i am not sure about Athena.

Like all the other siege units.... they feel like a total wank, like i guess this is more of vs AI problem that fills its base with a maze of T3 turrets than in PvP the mod is balanced around.

 

Its just extremely weird, the only game i know off where this is the same thing is the Tiberian Dawn where obelisks can simply shoot back at GDI's MLRS units, but Tiberian Dawn is such a outdated game with only a laughable balancing in it.

 

Its just... i expect artillery units to be countered by sailing from your base with either jets or your own tanks, not that most artillery units get melted to a puddle the moment they try to attack a Foehn's base and 3 neutrolizers snapped to its general direction and melted through its generally paper thin armor in 0.5 seconds.

Edited by mrvecz, 03 September 2021 - 01:03 PM.

[Handepsilon]

Well, yeah... I'm not sure I'm into that whole range situation too. I guess it was more to the fact that most of the Arty units that doesn't have enough range can also do other things or are less counterable. For example, Prisms and Buratino doubles as anti-infantry, Plague Splatters are spammable and decreases armor, and Magnetron pretty much stops anything that involves a slight hint of metal. But then it's just my take on it. Can't really explain that much

 

Thankfully T3, Neutralizer included, can still be dealt with using infantry sieges, which all factions happen to have.

 

Antares is trash though, even against tanks. I'm not sure why but you're better off using Inferno Tower

[Malekron]

Well, yeah... I'm not sure I'm into that whole range situation too. I guess it was more to the fact that most of the Arty units that doesn't have enough range can also do other things or are less counterable. For example, Prisms and Buratino doubles as anti-infantry, Plague Splatters are spammable and decreases armor, and Magnetron pretty much stops anything that involves a slight hint of metal. But then it's just my take on it. Can't really explain that much

 

Thankfully T3, Neutralizer included, can still be dealt with using infantry sieges, which all factions happen to have.

 

Antares is trash though, even against tanks. I'm not sure why but you're better off using Inferno Tower

How should the Antares be improved?