5127 replies to this topic

[mevitar]

Hey Mental Speeder, or anyone?
Would it possible in 3.3.5 to have Reznov and Krukov as the Russian hero unit duo, instead of Volkov and Chitzkoi?

Reznov and Krukov work so well toghether, and are much easier to manage than Volkov and Chitzkoi.

It's a dinosaur.

Hey Mental Speeder, or anyone?
Would it possible in 3.3.5 to have Reznov and Krukov as the Russian hero unit duo, instead of Volkov and Chitzkoi?

Reznov and Krukov work so well toghether, and are much easier to manage than Volkov and Chitzkoi.

Heroes won't be changed. Reznov and Krukov are nothing more but a stronger Sniper and Desolator anyway.

[SuperSnivy]

Gattling logic was supposed to emulate that effect. Unfortunately yes, if the copter changes target immediately, the beam will still apply the final stage weapon and thus insta freeze other structures. Obviously this isn't intended and MM has tried to fix this before iirc.

And yeah, it all depends on AlexB. I don't think the demand for Cryocopter-esque unit is very high outside of MO to warrant an extra feature, but I could be wrong.

 

The only alternative I can think of is using Chrono weapon logic. Just like the Chrono Legionnaire needs to "deal" a certain amount of damage to erase a target, the Cryocopter could need to "deal" a certain amount of damage to freeze a structure. But I don't know if it's possible.

[Spinosaurus]

 

 

Hey Mental Speeder, or anyone?
Would it possible in 3.3.5 to have Reznov and Krukov as the Russian hero unit duo, instead of Volkov and Chitzkoi?

Reznov and Krukov work so well toghether, and are much easier to manage than Volkov and Chitzkoi.

 

It's a dinosaur.

Hey Mental Speeder, or anyone?
Would it possible in 3.3.5 to have Reznov and Krukov as the Russian hero unit duo, instead of Volkov and Chitzkoi?

Reznov and Krukov work so well toghether, and are much easier to manage than Volkov and Chitzkoi.

Heroes won't be changed. Reznov and Krukov are nothing more but a stronger Sniper and Desolator anyway.

 

Alright, I understand no worries.

[TerumasaReal]

No of course, they're designed to be campaign-exclusive heroes, like Boris.

[Handepsilon]

I was about to say that Reznov and Krukov replacing the cybers would probably make Russians a bit less OP

[mevitar]

I was about to say that Reznov and Krukov replacing the cybers would probably make Russians a bit less OP

I think that was the point of that suggestion.

And that's why they won't be replaced.

can't make Russia too hard to play muahahahaa

Edited by mevitar, 29 March 2019 - 02:19 AM.

[Petya]

Heroes have some special gimmick tied to them, which set them apart from the rest of the infantry. They are unique in many regards. Krukov is just an upgraded Desolator who can use smokes as well, Reznov is only a mere sniper, who can plant C4 on structures, besides Reznov would collude with Morales. It's not even the balance part, what stops them from appearing in multiplayer. Surely you understand that it isn't technically impossible for Paradox becoming a regular unit; it just need a little balance touch up and it could be a mere unit. However... it would take away the essence of being campaign unique. If you could control them outside of the campaign, what purpose they would serve in the campaign? Campaign-unique materials are kept that way not because of the balance, but for the sake of being such. The only charm they have is that their appearance is limited to a handful of missions. That's all.

[Death_Kitty]

Some of this may have been suggested in the past, but I think that WoC is a bit of a mess right now. I think their sky army is in a good place right now, but against certain factions with really good AA, and against bases in general, WoC kinda falls apart. How about restructuring their ground composition to make it possible to sustain an army around Eureka, Nano'ed infantry and tarchias, with RR buffering from a vehicle A-move. 

-Giving Eureka a spinblade, or at least making the WoC spin-blade recharge faster so that tarchias can move.

-Removing the ability of RR to utilize spin blades, or just making their discharge be a stun instead of damage. Make them more a buffer unit, instead of the really annoying hard to stop nuisance gimmic unit they are now. 

-Nerfing minermite repair rate. In not to each other, then at least to friendly vehicles. 

- Buffing the draco with more health? I mean, I think it has the coolest gimmics of all the MBT's, but I see it so little. Maybe decrease the cost, or build time? 

-And maybe making foehn healing more consistent. 

 

Also.

What did you devs do the tyrant! Holy crap, I've seen the map editor take more time to delete bases! 

[Divine]

Foehn, including WoC, has the Quetzal, which is overall probably the best siege unit in the game. WoC can support it with Pteras for anti-vehicle, Alanquas for AA, and Buzzards for anti-infantry (while the Quetzals themselves are also good against blobs of them) to make an all-flying attack force that is good against everything. Or just abuse the Quetzal's radar invisibility and the bug that makes EVA ignore its attacks, send them around at the edge of the map and delete half of the enemy's assets before they catch on. Also, Harbinger.

 

Making the RR stun instead of damage would possibly make it even more powerful, Draco is already a very good MBT early-game thanks to its gimmick, it's just MBT's in general that suck. Tarchia is already a superb artillery unit. Faster Spinblade recharge would be a huge buff to all Foehn. I don't think any ground force buff for WoC would be excusable without savagely beating their airforce with the nerfbat first.

[Death_Kitty]

Foehn, including WoC, has the Quetzal, which is overall probably the best siege unit in the game. WoC can support it with Pteras for anti-vehicle, Alanquas for AA, and Buzzards for anti-infantry (while the Quetzals themselves are also good against blobs of them) to make an all-flying attack force that is good against everything. Or just abuse the Quetzal's radar invisibility and the bug that makes EVA ignore its attacks, send them around at the edge of the map and delete half of the enemy's assets before they catch on. Also, Harbinger.

 

Making the RR stun instead of damage would possibly make it even more powerful, Draco is already a very good MBT early-game thanks to its gimmick, it's just MBT's in general that suck. Tarchia is already a superb artillery unit. Faster Spinblade recharge would be a huge buff to all Foehn. I don't think any ground force buff for WoC would be excusable without savagely beating their airforce with the nerfbat first.

Oh, yeah. Nerfing quetzal is kinda something that should go without saying. I discussed it with Jacko, but forgot to put it here for some reason... The quetzal should be less flying arty, and more like a flying, short range, aircraft carrier. Those drones should be far easier to shoot down before they mark the target, and take much longer to rebuild. The quetzal is way to strong rn for its own good. 

 

The goal with the RR idea was to nerf it, I'm just not sure how to do that without losing the units's Identity. So yeah, I'm all for beating foehn savagely with a nerf bat. In general, WoC air army, harbinger, LB nanocharge, , Most of haihead t3 all need to be toned down, i think. Bloody signal disruptor towers. And miner mites. those need to get hit too. But i kinda want a bit more time again before I go after the next 2 foehn armies. 

 

Its just that foehn has way to many options that seem to clash with one another, or too many brainless units that are far too good for how easy they are to use. 

[JackoDerp]

Quetzals aren't fantastic siege units though. They do ok in sneaks, but in all out sieging they're pretty underwhelming because of average range. Still better than current Tarchia at least.

Draco's gimmick has zero impact on the game since AT Infantry are also AA (except Foehn, but w/e).

Coronia can function with the right changes, just they have two massive glaring holes in their arsenal that make them literally useless in a standard MO game, that being:


1.Cannot kill Tanky heroes. (Just change Zorb damage modifiers and we'll fix that)
2.Cannot siege even remotely. Gap Gens/Chimera Cores slow them down so hard its ridiculous. (Tarchias never get to fire and Quetzals are too expensive)

Roadrunners are by design a super cancerous unit and are the other reason we never see Dracos.


Also by design at the moment Haihead are kinda OP, because you literally cannot punish them for hardcore tech rushing. Irritator mob-control is literal god-tier and the Moment Fin appears its done, you lose.
Anything else gets eaten by the super-stronk Sonic Turrets and then they can just MADMAN rush your base and you die

*shrug*

Edited by JackoDerp, 01 April 2019 - 02:46 PM.

[Death_Kitty]

dracos seem designed for tier 1 mbt battles, forcing your opponent to dilute his MBT swarm with AA vehicles, but these engagements don't happen, probably b/c your tier 1 warfactory is producing miners for all of the 1.5 min tier 1 early game. By then, opponent has tier 2 infantry, a tier 1 swarm of infantry as well, and if that is GGI/flak/TT/archers, you are gonna die. 

 

Honestly it be cool to see tier 1 rushes more of a thing, but you don't get the money that you need to do that, b/c you will stall trying to spend on tanks with a 1 miner economy, and if you start building miners, then going for that, infantry, and tech is just better. 

 

I kinda wish there was a way to slow down the game in tier 1, let MBT's actually play out a role in the game, but then again that itself will probably lead to just a couple of good MBT's dominating tier 1. MO's fast tech and strong infantry just kinda screw MBT's over. Its a game design issue at this point. 

 

It kinda continues on: Jaguar tanks are meant, it seems, to work with Morales, (which no one does), haihead walkers seem meant to follow megos (again, just sue your money to build more megos.) and at tier 1, infantry, are already out in force, as are tier 1 base defenses. Honestly, at tier 2 or 3, tier 1 vehicles should get some kind of universal buff, or something like that. MBT's cant counter much at all. AT infantry just does their job better-, and ironically, is more survivable. Maybe if anti-infantry vehicles were better?

 

Who knows... maybe its time MO get an upgrade system.

Edited by Death_Kitty, 01 April 2019 - 06:50 PM.

[Thesilver]

It looks like russia is finally getting that advanced tesla trooper that people ask for every month.

epsilon appears to be getting an AoE version of the raccoon but for infantry only or so it would appear.

 

 

anyway, another problem with MBT's is that harvesters have just too many defensive options making eco punishing impossible at T1. Only the soviet harvester is harrasible in any way whatsoever in the early game. One instantly teleports away with 1300 hitpoints, one outheals damage, an effect that gets progressively harder to deal with as the number of harvesters increases and one can't even be seen at all in a game where 50% of all factions have no stealth detection at T1 with the other having it in flimsy anti infantry vehicles which do nothing against the harvesters. Minermites are also considerably faster than other harvesters, so they actually have 2 defensive abilities.

Edited by Thesilver, 02 April 2019 - 07:30 AM.

[Handepsilon]

It looks like russia is finally getting that advanced tesla trooper that people ask for every month.
epsilon appears to be getting an AoE version of the raccoon but for infantry only or so it would appear.

Are you sure that ain't some april fools joke tho.

I'll be furious if Speeder even dares to buff Russia. That faction is already one of the easiest powerful faction to play

Edited by Handepsilon, 02 April 2019 - 12:08 PM.

[Malver170]

https://twitter.com/...055934404673538

 

Maybe, really, this is a replacement for Tesla Troopers.

Edited by Malver170, 02 April 2019 - 12:48 PM.

[Handepsilon]

Oh goodness sake...

Well, then I'll check out for the balance proposal. Hopefully he has everything actually sorted out this time

[Tathmesh]

Or this could be a positive change for Russia. You can distribute Volkov's power among Shock Troopers. The only downside is extra dev time reworking the Volkov missions.

[Divine]

F-ing sweet! Waiting for MO updates is almost like waiting for Christmas. The Shock Trooper will be a Tesla Trooper replacement, I'm sure of it. Probably for Russia. It's even a detector unit and all. I don't know what the Ruiner is supposed to be, but if Epsilon finally gets some love, I'm all for it.

[JackoDerp]

Don't see any real reason for Shock Trooper to be added to the game.
What difference will it make? What gameplay impact will it actually have?

Seems like adding things because scrubs complained about there not being a unique thing for no reason. zzz.

As for the Ruiner, seems to be an infantry-disabler similar to a Raccoon, looking at the picture. If it disables heroes then already this thing is crazy useful, else its just meh.

[Kirov_Fury]

I welcome the new additions to be honest. I expect shock troopers to be more deadly tesla troopers, faster, more expensive and much effective against tanks or buildings.

Perhaps a T3 counterpart to Allied siege cadres or seals in some respect ? Or is it a unique unit to Russia ? Or are we saying "congratulations you will be discharged" to good old tesla trooper ?

Ruiner looks interesting too. It seems debuffing or incapacitating infantry, with area of effect radius. Fellow members point out similarities with raccoon but I think it also comparable to cryocopter.