5127 replies to this topic

[Atomic_Noodles]

 

On the topic of the Grand Cannon should it be replaced with an adaptive system (like the IFV but in the form of stationary of the Grand Cannon structure)

 

Like the Multigunner Turret from Red Alert 3?

 

Is that even possible to begin with?

 

Closest I can think of that is making a All-Infantry garrisonable structure but that also limits it to requiring the building be occupied first and must have all the same range as all Garrisonable Structures and adding weapons for each and every infantry.

[Nox667]

I must agree, mines in general, are trash. How about changing all ofthem to support powers? 

Deploy EMP Mines

Deploy Geno-Mines

Deploy M.A.D. Mines

 

All of these would have a limited range, like the Knightfall Protocol or Chronolift around the building that deploys them. The support power would deploy a small patch of mines, which would need to arm first, as they do now. 

The recharge speed of the support power should be carefully adjusted so mines would not be spammed everywhere, but would be useful neverhteless.

 

There's also another interesting solution that comes to my mind, if we wish for alternative delivery methods. In Generals: Shockwave, vanilla China has a Mine Dispenser building. It is a small, camoflaged container that places a minefield around itself, and replaces lost mines periodically. Furthermore, aerial deployment and minelayer vehicles should also be doable.

 

What exactly would this knightfall way of deploying mines change? That way it would be exactly the same as now, namely only mines close to your provider structure (atm thats any base building), you'd have to place em and they still only trigger when an enemy runs right into it.

Actually, by limiting the deploy radius to be only around such a provider structure and tying the deploy to a support power would even further limit the use of mines compared to now: you wouldnt be able to get em out faster by building more conyards and your deploy radius cant be expanded by simple basecrawling.

Direct deploy via support power (maybe denying the use in a certain range around enemy conyards, should be possible as seen with the Confederation tunnels in Red-Resurrection) would at least allow the deploy in critical positions across the battlefield. Could make em alot more interesting to use, the arming time would prevent this method from ending in another naval mine/bloatick.

A stealthed structure that creates em over could be interesting, but no idea if possible at all.

A minelayer vehicle would be kinda clunky to use i feel.

Mines in general dont really work well in RA2 thanks to the cell based maps. Dont think i'd miss em if they were to be removed, would actually welcome the reduced clutter in the sidebar.

[JackoDerp]

Summoning Mines onto the map is *always* asking for a Naval-mine style problem where they just drop them on enemies for free damage, else you'll have to give it complicated and glitchy conditions for use that just makes them annoying.

Current mine system is fine, just they're underused because all of them except EMP mines are ass, and ground heroes counter them very easily because they're detectors.
Still, daily reminder that EMP mines are actually still really good.

[Divine]

 

I must agree, mines in general, are trash. How about changing all ofthem to support powers? 

Deploy EMP Mines

Deploy Geno-Mines

Deploy M.A.D. Mines

 

All of these would have a limited range, like the Knightfall Protocol or Chronolift around the building that deploys them. The support power would deploy a small patch of mines, which would need to arm first, as they do now. 

The recharge speed of the support power should be carefully adjusted so mines would not be spammed everywhere, but would be useful neverhteless.

 

There's also another interesting solution that comes to my mind, if we wish for alternative delivery methods. In Generals: Shockwave, vanilla China has a Mine Dispenser building. It is a small, camoflaged container that places a minefield around itself, and replaces lost mines periodically. Furthermore, aerial deployment and minelayer vehicles should also be doable.

 

What exactly would this knightfall way of deploying mines change? That way it would be exactly the same as now, namely only mines close to your provider structure (atm thats any base building), you'd have to place em and they still only trigger when an enemy runs right into it.

Actually, by limiting the deploy radius to be only around such a provider structure and tying the deploy to a support power would even further limit the use of mines compared to now: you wouldnt be able to get em out faster by building more conyards and your deploy radius cant be expanded by simple basecrawling.

Direct deploy via support power (maybe denying the use in a certain range around enemy conyards, should be possible as seen with the Confederation tunnels in Red-Resurrection) would at least allow the deploy in critical positions across the battlefield. Could make em alot more interesting to use, the arming time would prevent this method from ending in another naval mine/bloatick.

A stealthed structure that creates em over could be interesting, but no idea if possible at all.

A minelayer vehicle would be kinda clunky to use i feel.

Mines in general dont really work well in RA2 thanks to the cell based maps. Dont think i'd miss em if they were to be removed, would actually welcome the reduced clutter in the sidebar.

 

I thought: Buff mines by increasing the range in which they can be deployed around the base and deploy them in patches, but prevent spamming them by making them buildable via a support power. The exact range is debatable, but there has to be one so people can't just deploy mines like, in the enemy base or something.

Edited by Divine, 16 May 2019 - 12:03 AM.

[Handepsilon]

Little did you know that mines are already a Support Power

No really, the mines triggers a hidden support power to multiply itself

[Nox667]

Summoning Mines onto the map is *always* asking for a Naval-mine style problem where they just drop them on enemies for free damage, else you'll have to give it complicated and glitchy conditions for use that just makes them annoying.

Current mine system is fine, just they're underused because all of them except EMP mines are ass, and ground heroes counter them very easily because they're detectors.
Still, daily reminder that EMP mines are actually still really good.

Given how mines need to some time to actually arm up and are visible when deployed, plopping em into a blob of enemy units is simply throwing away the support power though. Its not bloatick trap/ naval mine mechanics aka "click here to delete blob".
Fair point about support power only mines being prolly clunky to use though.

 

I guess EMP mines can be scary, but they are overshadowed by the em-pulse and yunru. Also dragonflies exist for far more versatile and actually mobile emp.

Good thing they arent as OP as in older versions though (was it the first 1v1 MO 3.3 tournament that showcased their insane power?), defo dont want that back.

 

Isnt it possible to allow certain buildings to be placed a lot further away from other owned base buildings? In that case this might help mines, by not confining their placement to your own base only.

[Handepsilon]

That's how defenses work actually

[Divine]

I'd once again like to point out and elaborate on the dangers of making the mines placable even further away and leaving them as a normal defense structure at the same time. A buff to their placement range will only be useful if it allows mining chokepoints close to the base. But then if they can be built at will, everyone will just spam mines at said chokepoints, senselessly slowing down the game. This is why I proposed them to be a support power, so the number of mines that could be deployed in a given time would be strictly limited.

Edited by Divine, 16 May 2019 - 06:27 PM.

[Damfoos]

Mines require lucky placement to blow something up (unless it's a chokepoint), are easy to detect (detector units are widely used and are often a necessary part of enemy blob or a base raiders taskforce, see SEALs, teslas, borillos, duneriders, not to mention heroes), are easy to destroy (except for the naval mines that actually DO slow down enemy advance when not placed under enemy ships but in water) and aren't always impactful (genetic mines can't kill a conscript with a direct hit, and you only get like 5 mines for a price of more than 10 conscripts). In the next patch they are supposed to become less fragile (EMP mines had a wrong HP value which was 10 times less than intended) and not sensitive to wrong kind of targets (so no more disarming MAD mines with dogs), but it still doesn't solve the problem of low hit probability (can be countered with making the mines easier to spam though) and mines being easy to detect (unlike Generals, there's only one kind of stealth in this game, so mines can't be made detectable at shorter ranges only).

[teztez]

Some suggestions.

If boidmachine was a artillery unit like nuke cannon it would be great.A single epic artillery unit that deals heavy damage from long range(longer then grand cannon)would be more useful then current version.Right now it recharge slowly and deals low damage.Buildings,tanks even soldiers dont die in one shot.

 

Make harbinger a controllable epic unit.It will fire powerful shots and return to its own airfield.but it can be controlled like other aircraft.Right now its not an epic unit, its more of a support power.

 

Can eureka get some buff?I used all the heroes but she is the most weak.

1.She is useless against infantry and small structure

2.while her damage against tanks are good but her attack speed is very slow and it makes are less effective against tanks(Which is her only role)

3.she cause friendly fires in wide area so i cant support her with ground vehicles.

 

Please increase her attack speed or make her stronger against infantry or remove her friendly fire any of this will improve her.

it would be cool if she could use two type of particle beam.one for tanks one for infantry.Double clicking her switch her beam mode.

 

 You guys can make these changes optional if you think it will ruin balance.like an option you can choose from skirmish menu(just like you choose mental ai boost).  

[Handepsilon]

- Boidmachines are supposed to be a tank destroyer, so it makes sense that it doesn't do much damage to soldiers. It wasn't meant to be a superweapon. Also, it's free shots compared to things like Harbinger.

 

- Harbinger is a support power, duh

 

- No commentary. I do think Eureka's underwhelming despite most Coronian stuff are aerial anyways.

 

Also, things like this seems too redundant to be made into an option. If each and every changes are turned into an option, we'd have hundreds and hundreds of checklists already.

[teztez]

- Boidmachines are supposed to be a tank destroyer, so it makes sense that it doesn't do much damage to soldiers. It wasn't meant to be a superweapon. Also, it's free shots compared to things like Harbinger.

 

- Harbinger is a support power, duh

 

- No commentary. I do think Eureka's underwhelming despite most Coronian stuff are aerial anyways.

 

Also, things like this seems too redundant to be made into an option. If each and every changes are turned into an option, we'd have hundreds and hundreds of checklists already.

-Thats what i am saying.its not a superweapon ,it should be an epic unit which deals heavy damage from long range.last bastion dont have any artillery so this will give them an advantage.And it will be cool because there is no epic ground artillery unit in this game,it will be the first one.And LB have powerful tanks to destroy vehicles so an anti armor artillery is unnecessary especially when it requires charging.

 

-Thats why i am suggesting to make it controllable epic unit like red alert 3.It will be a flying epic unit(unlike irkhala which does not need to relode).It will fire couple of particle blast in enemy base and return to its own airfield  to recharge.You can nerf its power so its balanced.

 

-So can she get some buff i suggested?Pretorians are better tank destroyer then her.Right now she is pretty useless.

 

-I suggested that because if someone does not like these changes they can turn off this changes.

Edited by teztez, 24 May 2019 - 05:50 AM.

[Malekron]

Is it possible to make an open topped vehicle but for tanks to go into and shoot out of? And on this topic is possible to make a defensive building that can garrison multiple tanks to shoot fire from its ports?

[Handepsilon]

Excuse me? The first epic ground artillery? You're going to ignore the Centurion altogether?

Also, excuse me again but have you never used Godsbane at all? That's Last Bastion's artillery, and that's if you don't count the Quetzal.

Also I don't really see Harbinger being controllable anytime soon. Speeder has already voiced disdain for epic units that can only be made at certain structure in the past

Also, yes it's possible to make vehicles shoot off opentopped vehicles. Completely unnecessary unless you want to make an OP unit for a challenge (which many have done) but possible. But no, buildings don't work like vehicles unfortunately

Edited by Handepsilon, 25 May 2019 - 04:10 AM.

[Divine]

Speeder migh have a disdain for epic unit factories, but the Irkalla / Centurion leaving a war factory clipping through its walls all the way still looks stupid. I wonder if something will ever be done about it.

[Malekron]

Speeder migh have a disdain for epic unit factories, but the Irkalla / Centurion leaving a war factory clipping through its walls all the way still looks stupid. I wonder if something will ever be done about it.

Is the War Factory going to receive a graphical upgrade to compensate for the clipping issues of the Irkalla and Centurion? Or are the those units going to be modified to not clip through?

[Speeder]

No to both. There's a bunch of clipping issues like that to which there are no good solutions, we'll just have to live with it.

 

If anyone's truly that bothered by such a visual thing, which happens for less than a second on the screen.. oh well. There are bigger problems to work on.

[teztez]

 

 

Also I don't really see Harbinger being controllable anytime soon. Speeder has already voiced disdain for epic units that can only be made at certain structure in the past

Harbinger is trained and controlled in ra3.will it be hard to make this version trainable?Just make it a single epic unit and nerf its power.It  can be trained in an airfield just like other airplanes.

 

Excuse me? The first epic ground artillery? You're going to ignore the Centurion altogether?

 

Sorry forgot about this.But thats china not fohen.what i am trying to say is make Boidmachines a controllable unit like nuke cannon.In this way it will be more active in battle.And Quetzal is a flying artillery;many factions have both ground and flying artillery.

I just wanted to see cronia and bastion both have controllable epic unit like mad tank,irkala,centurion.  

Both harbinger and  Boidmachines acts like support power not epic unit.And Boidmachines is pretty useless.

[stupid]

I'm wondering if we could replace the ready sound of support powers to something more noticeable, instead of just a 'blink in the ear'. Currently the sound is so subtle during a heavy battle that I even forget to launch my nuclear missile sometimes.

[Ebonight_5i8er]

Also I don't really see Harbinger being controllable anytime soon. Speeder has already voiced disdain for epic units that can only be made at certain structure in the past

Harbinger is trained and controlled in ra3.will it be hard to make this version trainable?Just make it a single epic unit and nerf its power.It can be trained in an airfield just like other airplanes.

Excuse me? The first epic ground artillery? You're going to ignore the Centurion altogether?

Sorry forgot about this.But thats china not fohen.what i am trying to say is make Boidmachines a controllable unit like nuke cannon.In this way it will be more active in battle.And Quetzal is a flying artillery;many factions have both ground and flying artillery.
I just wanted to see cronia and bastion both have controllable epic unit like mad tank,irkala,centurion.
Both harbinger and Boidmachines acts like support power not epic unit.And Boidmachines is pretty useless.

Okay, my breakdown of your suggestions:

- The Boidmachine is meant to be a harassment tool. It's prime purpose is to severely damage or destroy a blob of massed armor vehicles (especially T3 Monster Tanks). Of course it isn't going to destroy infantry or structures (unless critically damaged such as superweapons for the latter). Last Bastion is efficient in it's anti-armor roles (Memesbanes and Mastodons can wreck any vehicle in front of them), so there is no reason to change the Boidmachine. It fulfills Last Bastion's turtling by having long-range harassment. There are plenty of options to deal with threats you complained that the Boidmachine couldn't do. You want infantry gone? Use Buzzards or Gharials. Vehicles up close? Bisons, OP Sweepers, Giantsbanes, and Mastodons can handle them. Structures destroyed? Quetzals are one, Godsbanes are another, and Uragan is the pinnacle. He is LB's own Centurion in a way, and the tankiest of all heroes. Provided there is no massed Anti-air, he can decimate bases easily without any help.

- I find making the Harbinger a controllable epic unit that has to be refilled at an airfield to be needlessly tacky, especially since Foehn is the only side not to have an airfield, and as such, their aircraft is built exclusively from their war factories. Giving them an airfield would just revamp their tech tree.

Slightly off here, but I want to have a short rant about the Harbinger. I hate how it is considered a support power, when it feels like a superweapon (particularly when it's tanky and endlessly unleashes it's payload). The timer makes it feel it more so. Why not remove the useless and situation based Blast Furnace with the Harbinger Tower? It can be relegated as a campaign-only structure of course.

Anyways, the Harbinger is fine enough. It doesn't need to be changed (Except maybe it's bombing run duration. I hate having to deal with that thing removing my power plants).

- I agree that Eureka needs a huge buff. Her purpose is hit-and-running tank squads until the Pteranodon's are massed. Either make her plasma wave attack as strong as Uragan's, or repurpose her weapon entirely. Perhaps adding an ability to make Foehn units in her presence have a speed boost, making her a walking Spinblade, to give her more use.

Edited by Ebonight_5i8er, 27 May 2019 - 04:54 AM.