5129 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Chau]

The Allied T3 economy is all-rounded. You may use the additional gains for any use, including defences.

 

The Soviets specialise their T3 economy on armour, while the Epsilon specialise theirs on infantry. The specialisation makes their effect seem stronger, because you can focus on those advantages.

 

The Allies, Soviets and Epsilon base their T3 economy on their ore input.

 

 - Allies gives your more ore.

 - Soviets lets you build more armor with the same ore.

 - Epsilon lets you train more infantry with the same ore.

 

Foehn is the only T3 economy currently to bypass the primary ore input and deliver an independent source of money. The Foehn's T3 economy is dependent on its firepower (and constantly attacking others). That is, it can be argued that Foehn's T3 is stronger because Foehn's armies are stronger.

 

It might be a good option to consider the balance of Foehn's firepower before adjusting the Reprocessor.

yes foehn needs nerfs and retweakings for their units in addition to the reprocessor getting a nerf or change in economy boosting.

[CLAlstar]

However the problem with Reprocessor is the fact, that Foehn can simply camp in lategame and mass forces, since defenses also provide the bounty. Each unsucessful attack will boost foehn even more, making it a very strong faction in longer games.

If i had to change something, it would be lowering the bounty % value and/or removing bounty from defensive structures. By doing the former, foehn will need to try harder to efficiently trade during battles with enemies and later would make it less risky to attack Foehn's bases.

[Nicholas Chau]

However the problem with Reprocessor is the fact, that Foehn can simply camp in lategame and mass forces, since defenses also provide the bounty. Each unsucessful attack will boost foehn even more, making it a very strong faction in longer games.

If i had to change something, it would be lowering the bounty % value and/or removing bounty from defensive structures. By doing the former, foehn will need to try harder to efficiently trade during battles with enemies and later would make it less risky to attack Foehn's bases.

splendid idea. Now though we have to see when the next update comes out ;(

[Admiral_Pit]

The current rates would be 25% on buildings and troops, 50% on heroes.  What if it was 15% and 40% respectively?  It shouldn't hurt them too much, but still will experience the benefit of bounties.

[TeslaCruiser]

Reciclyng aproach will force a more offensive playstyle on foehn. The more i think the more i like this idea

[Divine]

Here's a more refined version of my idea about Foehn's units being dependant on base power: Nanofyber Synced infantry would be weak by themselves, they would move slowly, have very bad rate of fire etc. It would be the Nanofiber Loom that would give them a constant buff with an autofiring weapon / animation that would increase the attributes of the synced infantry to their current level. And now the new logic, which doesn't exist currently, but Ares might get around it sooner or later: synced infantry would have their own power requirement. If the Loom is shut down either because it's destroyed, sabotaged (new use for spies?), or low on power, the buff would cease, and the synced infantry would be very much weakened. A similar logic could be implemented for the most OP Foehn vehicles, especially tier 3 stuff,  but with a different building, perhaps the Cloud Piercer.

 

An in-universe logical explaination for this mechanic could be something like that while Foehn's weapons have devastating power, even they couldn't build sufficiently small and high yield energy sources to maintain the maximal efficency of their nanites and more advanced weapons without external power supply. The power transfer itself could either happen using quantum mechanics, or by utilising Tesla's concept about wireless energy transfer (which also existed IRL).

 

Implementing this would address the problem of the Foehn amassing a large force of end-game weapons, huge blobs of synced infantry, and additionaly, it would make the Foehn more vulnerable to hit and run attacks by factions that currently can't match it due to their relative lack of firepower.

Edited by Divine, 12 January 2017 - 03:03 PM.

[Schottkey 7th Path]

Well of course Foehn's reprocesser pretty much lets them swim in money. which goes against their theme of high quality low quantity if you become rich enough to buy enough of your fancy vehicles to put entire soviet tank divisions to shame. 

 

Here is my take on a solution. let's look at Foehn's strengths, units that are far better to whatever the other factions have to compare and have SURVIVABILITY.

 

 

Instead of a bounty system as passive, how about changing the passive to making all Foehn defensive turrets and towers generate a slow working healing aura within their weapon ranges. aiding in unit survivability. also this can work with Spinblades when going on the offensive, also turning it into an instant repair station that non spinblade units can benefit. this can make Foehn units look like indestructible terminators if played properly but without the huge cash flows of the current bounty system thus keeping your forces limited. (still would provide the standard ecobooster income though).

 

also lets take the Devour concept further: it instead becomes a wide area support power that instead of dealing damage, it gives your infantry and units the ability to vampire the health from their enemies from either damage or kill. or alternatively, all enemies killed within the "Devour" zone by your forces explode into nanite clouds for infantry healing. the aura should last for quite a while if you place it in a high conflict zone.

 

This is a pretty heavy change but what do you all think of it?

[CLAlstar]

So what you want is simply Nanocharge for turrets.

[Schottkey 7th Path]

hey as long as it works. it would be continuous as it's a passive ability as long as the Reprocessor is still on the field with power. also it's not as powerful as the nanocharge in healing per seconds. alternatively it could just buff the armour of your units instead.

[Speeder]

The way the Reprocessor works will not be changed, all that could change in the future is how much money it provides per kill.

[Damfoos]

So... $600 Genomines trigger on $100 dogs and &50 conscripts without even mutating them, explode when the target is too far away to be even slightly damaged, trigger on vehicles only to scratch their paint a bit, trigger all at once if packed close and spawn neutral Brutes in those rare cases when they manage to kill something, these Brutes then attack my own stuff and my units don't threat them as enemies. What's the profit of building these things then?

[BlackAbsence]

The Blast Furnace is my least practical SW. It would be nice if Blast Trenches lasted longer (A minute is pretty short, imo) and connected farther to each other (So I could wrap around the walls I've already built). It really does deserve more love because, comparison wise, its potential is minuscule.

 

The Iron Guard can produce some pretty nasty effects when stationed at an opponents front door, which is why I propose its effect casting be more constant yet with lesser durations, in order to prevent offensive tactics with what's clearly meant to be defensive. The Sykle in conjunction with this is the perfect example (The Sykle is also way too fast x) and I've seemed to have underestimated its potential)

Another thing I would like to see done to the Iron Guard is a boost to its health, as it's fairly weak.

 

The Nanocoat Regulator deserves some more health too, imo, and would be cool if it auto healed structures. 

Edited by BlackAbsence, 12 January 2017 - 07:07 PM.

[CLAlstar]

They have lower HP for a reason. To make you realize that you should focus them first.

[XoGamer]

Hey CLAIstar, why does it say at the top of your thing "The one and only master of Scorpion Cell" and then underneath "Worst MO Player" lol

 

Regardless,

 

Pre-Release:

Meh syckle's gonna be terrible and nobody gonna use it...

 

Post-Release:

KSDAJFBFHJASFHASJDF too fast.

and no epsilon's infantry spams are no more lel

[CLAlstar]

Because military intelligence is contradiction.

[XoGamer]

Wow that sounds very BS.

 

Scorpion Cell, tho - probably intentionally is a lot like GLA from ZH

 

 

if only it had tunnels and stealthed buildings ;=;

Edited by XoGamer, 12 January 2017 - 08:00 PM.

[Divine]

Earlier I said that Infantry Only seems to be surprisingly well balanced. I have to say, that I was wrong. Playing as Foehn makes me feel dirty. Fin is okay, because all other factions have very useful heroes as well. Zorbfloaters on the other hand, are not okay. They are so tough, and have so quick self-healing, that not even snipers can effectively stop them. Add some Godsbanes, and maybe Fin as well, and you can roflstomp an enemy with less than 20 soldiers. The only real counter against them are Foehn's own Duplicants, but Fin's presence makes them too obsolete.

[Damfoos]

Foehn has a problem with economy early, because lack of WF does not allow them to get harvesters fast, they have to buy refineries. But if they survive and tech up, they are unstoppable... and they can build Harbinger towers!

Edited by Damfoos, 12 January 2017 - 08:35 PM.

[Admiral_Pit]

After being put into a 1v2 situation as Coronia, I kinda realize that some of the stuff may need nerfs, as late game Coronia actually has answers to almost if not everything, especially when they keep getting money from a Reprocessor.  Here's what happened and some examples from the match I had, PC and Haihead against my Coronia.

 

-Various groups of Mass Foehn infantry and PC infantry (including Libras and Viruses)

Small group of Zorbfloaters defeated em all with little to no casualties, the only casualty being caused by Fin himself.  Viruses do not kill Zorbs in 1 hit, and thus quickly heal if not killed quickly.  Granted, I still had a Hospital, but I feel the result would be identical.

 

-Some vehicles (like Irritators and Cyclops) next to the infantry

Either the Zorbs clear the infantry first or the Pternodons try to wound the vehicles first, then the others do their thing.  Irritators do delay the Zorb problem, but again, the flyers...  Even if the Pters are not present, they can at least shred the infantry (including the AA ones) to help said flyers clear the vehicle threats.

 

Though there were no flyer attacks besides the Gehennas, Alanqa escorts make short work of their interceptors, making easy pickings for... you guessed it, Pternodons.

And what about buildings?  What better way than Quetzals, as well as the shield ability to help em take more hits for a bit?

 

 

Throughout the game, constantly killing the enemy troops even got me to 33k cash at one point due to the econ building, even though I did have a SW to help too, but that's besides the point.  The general point is that some Foehn things may need a few nerfs, especially late-game Coronia at this time.  With units that greatly shatter groups of a specific unit type, and their counts are easily countered by another unit, I can imagine a group of Pternodons, Zorbfloaters, Alanqas, and Quetzals (clair and sodar escorts if worried about stealth) together can break through anything.  So we feel some stuff need nerfs, and here's some ideas:

 

-Zorbfloaters:  Nerf their rapid heal speed.  Even Viruses pale compared to these guys with their AoE, better speed (especially via Spinblade).  Honorable mention to Jackals carrying Zorbs/Clairvoyants for fast-moving infantry/hero hunting.  These guys even in small groups are just so powerful, and so as long as they got that super fast healing, there's little to no way to kill em without heavy firepower.  Even Seigfried and Morales has problems with them.

The only one I know has some capability against them is Rahn 1-shotting them, but even he can't stand up to a small group of them.

 

-Pternodons:  Too much HP.  I would think that GGIs/Archers at least would have a chance since they're fit for fighting heavy armor classes.  Soviets and their AA infantry, however... not so much, and even though Foehn infantry are not as great for that, they are definitely more durable. Long story short, a group of them flying around carefully is hard to beat, but harder when Zorbs are with them.

If a slight speed nerf is possible, I wouldn't mind that either.

 

-Reprocessor:  We spoke about nerfing its bounty percentage already, and I still stand by those words.  After the match I had, just defending and doing a bit of attacking without losing much (well, mostly because of the Zorbs) netted me with enough money to keep funding my troops and make a comeback, but even I feel it's a bit too high of percentage.  I'd recommend 15% and 35% for normal stuff and heroes respectively, unless there's a better percentage suggestion.

 

 

So what do you think so far?  Agreements?  Disagreements?  I'm open to testing scenarios to see what subfactions have answers to these things too.

[Nicholas Chau]

After being put into a 1v2 situation as Coronia, I kinda realize that some of the stuff may need nerfs, as late game Coronia actually has answers to almost if not everything, especially when they keep getting money from a Reprocessor.  Here's what happened and some examples from the match I had, PC and Haihead against my Coronia.

 

-Various groups of Mass Foehn infantry and PC infantry (including Libras and Viruses)

Small group of Zorbfloaters defeated em all with little to no casualties, the only casualty being caused by Fin himself.  Viruses do not kill Zorbs in 1 hit, and thus quickly heal if not killed quickly.  Granted, I still had a Hospital, but I feel the result would be identical.

 

-Some vehicles (like Irritators and Cyclops) next to the infantry

Either the Zorbs clear the infantry first or the Pternodons try to wound the vehicles first, then the others do their thing.  Irritators do delay the Zorb problem, but again, the flyers...  Even if the Pters are not present, they can at least shred the infantry (including the AA ones) to help said flyers clear the vehicle threats.

 

Though there were no flyer attacks besides the Gehennas, Alanqa escorts make short work of their interceptors, making easy pickings for... you guessed it, Pternodons.

And what about buildings?  What better way than Quetzals, as well as the shield ability to help em take more hits for a bit?

 

 

Throughout the game, constantly killing the enemy troops even got me to 33k cash at one point due to the econ building, even though I did have a SW to help too, but that's besides the point.  The general point is that some Foehn things may need a few nerfs, especially late-game Coronia at this time.  With units that greatly shatter groups of a specific unit type, and their counts are easily countered by another unit, I can imagine a group of Pternodons, Zorbfloaters, Alanqas, and Quetzals (clair and sodar escorts if worried about stealth) together can break through anything.  So we feel some stuff need nerfs, and here's some ideas:

 

-Zorbfloaters:  Nerf their rapid heal speed.  Even Viruses pale compared to these guys with their AoE, better speed (especially via Spinblade).  Honorable mention to Jackals carrying Zorbs/Clairvoyants for fast-moving infantry/hero hunting.  These guys even in small groups are just so powerful, and so as long as they got that super fast healing, there's little to no way to kill em without heavy firepower.  Even Seigfried and Morales has problems with them.

The only one I know has some capability against them is Rahn 1-shotting them, but even he can't stand up to a small group of them.

 

-Pternodons:  Too much HP.  I would think that GGIs/Archers at least would have a chance since they're fit for fighting heavy armor classes.  Soviets and their AA infantry, however... not so much, and even though Foehn infantry are not as great for that, they are definitely more durable. Long story short, a group of them flying around carefully is hard to beat, but harder when Zorbs are with them.

If a slight speed nerf is possible, I wouldn't mind that either.

 

-Reprocessor:  We spoke about nerfing its bounty percentage already, and I still stand by those words.  After the match I had, just defending and doing a bit of attacking without losing much (well, mostly because of the Zorbs) netted me with enough money to keep funding my troops and make a comeback, but even I feel it's a bit too high of percentage.  I'd recommend 15% and 35% for normal stuff and heroes respectively, unless there's a better percentage suggestion.

 

 

So what do you think so far?  Agreements?  Disagreements?  I'm open to testing scenarios to see what subfactions have answers to these things too.

yes zorbfloaters and pteranodons need a nerf(although i admit i did not fight enough zorbfloaters to get a proper analysis on them since i always spam vehicles against zorbfloaters ), ESPECIALLY PTERANODONS. i mean wtf, 1050 HP is absurd and too high already for a sci fi aircraft >:( speed nerfs are also needed as well, along with attack range nerfs.

For the reprocessor how about nerfing the damn thing to only give 10 to 15 percent for any kill except defenses, and making the minermite cheaper to compensate for the reproccessor being shitty in the process. (if this suggestion not good enough nerf the building to only give 5 percent cash )

Edited by Nicholas Chau, 13 January 2017 - 12:39 AM.