257 replies to this topic

[Spinosaurus]

Yeah, dolphins are a bit weak IMHO too. I also miss their original weapons (not to mention the squids!!). Tehy were pretty strong against buildings though, so maybe change their damage vs. buildings and infantry to be in between the 2 versions. And little to no damage against ships.
And even conscripts are OP if you spam them...

The Squids are still in game, they just shift over to Yuri. You could say they became one with Yuri. 

[Handepsilon]

Squids are changed to just whack ships around, but they're pretty great at chasing and grounding ships for others to pick up.

 

also

 

And even conscripts are OP if you spam them...

What are you talking about? 1000 conscripts can never be OP even if you try.

[CrimsonRaider]

I know, I just miss their ship-hugging attack. It was fun.

[CrimsonRaider]

Squids are changed to just whack ships around, but they're pretty great at chasing and grounding ships for others to pick up.

 

also

 

 

 

And even conscripts are OP if you spam them...

What are you talking about? 1000 conscripts can never be OP even if you try.

Then 1 million. That's not the main point of it. If you say just use more and spam, that does not mean, that's a solution or that unit is good.
By the way I still don't understand why a lot of people spam things. It indicates their lack of strategic thinking, and it's a cheap, boring method. It's not hate speech, I'm just curious.

[Handepsilon]

1 million conscripts would just line themselves up to be killed, you can only spam so much until the spamming just becomes a redundant task that goes nowhere. What, did you really think 1 million conscripts will actually be useful?

 

Also, stuffs like Jaguars are meant to be spammed. It's cheap, it's fast... it's just... how that unit is meant to be used. What do you think you're controlling, A Qilin?

[CrimsonRaider]

No, but again, it's not the main point, just an exaggregation.
And no again, there are other options/units to use.

But this won't lead anywhere, especially if you are that scornful with that 'what do you think, what are you talking about?' crap. I said dolphins could be a bit stronger, and brought a silly example, and you attacked me. Man (or kid, you are pretty young as I see)...
Personally this conversation is done.
 

[Handepsilon]

Well, I'm sorry if I got it wrong, since nobody really said dolphin spamming (I may have missed it in the skimming), but Dolphins are the same case as Jaguars : cheap, weak and very fast, obviously should be spammed. Considering their vanilla weapon was so uber strong, I really don't think that is an option for MO. It's also a great detector and can get away from shots quite easily.

 

Even if it's not to be spammed, consider what the previous posters said about Destroyers detection range. In reality Destroyers can send Ospreys far more than their line of sight (22(!) cells), which makes dolphin pretty useful at scouting out subs without putting your ships at risk. It's also great for Aircraft Carriers to snipe ships from afar, considering their Hornets are more accurate than the other siege flagships (barring Leviathan to a degree).

 

EDIT : In fact, it's in the description

 

One of the initially controversional, and then most successful ideas was an attempt of training Dolphins for usage in the Allied navy. Those nimble mammals were capable of swiftly scouting nearby areas, and if any threat was found, a system of sensors would immediately send enemy coordinates to nearby units. With their assistance, Destroyers could intercept Soviet submarines from much larger distance. The roles have been reversed and the hunters became the hunted.

 

To amplify potential of Dolphins they have been equipped with another type of Comet Prism weapons which are mounted on their backs. With those, they could attempt to engage not only enemies on waters, but also take down some targets at the shores. Right now, Dolphins remain in the Allied army as main scout and detection force, but when amassed, they become a force to be reckoned with.

Edited by Handepsilon, 10 April 2019 - 10:15 AM.

[CrimsonRaider]

I apologize then, I completely forgot (I read all the descriptions, but not recently) that they are IN FACT scout units, their weapon is just secondary. My bad.

[Spinosaurus]

Zephyr Beacon- Its a bit difficult to spot if there are way too mamy units or structures close toghether in an enemy base, and its really tiny. Could you make its red lights..pulse or much easier to spot, so PF players could see it better please?

Also, the Zephyr shots aren't guaranteed to land right where the beacon actually is -they tend to overshoot it a bit too much.

Really underused because your Zephyrs just don't hit the beacon mark at all in my experience.

[Tathmesh]

Zephyr Beacon- Its a bit difficult to spot if there are way too mamy units or structures close toghether in an enemy base, and its really tiny. Could you make its red lights..pulse or much easier to spot, so PF players could see it better please?

Also, the Zephyr shots aren't guaranteed to land right where the beacon actually is -they tend to overshoot it a bit too much.

Really underused because your Zephyrs just don't hit the beacon mark at all in my experience.

This is a valid point but for different reasons.

Do any PF mains actually use Zephyrobot? I'm actually curious. It seems like this support power requires way too many unreasonable conditions to be useful.

You have to spam mid-term Zephyrs, so you end up with less cash to buy Blizzards, Hailstorms or Torts. Then in order to get the full effect, you need to make sure your opponent stays still for the full duration.

Maybe you can use it to snipe structures, but again, how many Zephyrs do you need for this to be actually effective?

This support power would be somewhat more useful if it buffed Zephyr firepower somehow but only allow enough time for Zephyrs to land two shots, or maybe you apply a slow when the shots land.

[Handepsilon]

The only occassion I see Zephyrobot became useful (and OP) is when GGI decided to spam 100 Zephyrs and hit the enemy Conyard and demolish it from his own base. In short, memeing

Otherwise, not really. Thing is, the AoE just diminish the shots greatly for some reason, added to the fact that the more Zephyrs shooting the robot, the faster it runs out due to damage

Edited by Handepsilon, 11 April 2019 - 01:28 AM.

[Spinosaurus]

Zephyr Beacon- Its a bit difficult to spot if there are way too mamy units or structures close toghether in an enemy base, and its really tiny. Could you make its red lights..pulse or much easier to spot, so PF players could see it better please?

Also, the Zephyr shots aren't guaranteed to land right where the beacon actually is -they tend to overshoot it a bit too much.

Really underused because your Zephyrs just don't hit the beacon mark at all in my experience.

This is a valid point but for different reasons.

Do any PF mains actually use Zephyrobot? I'm actually curious. It seems like this support power requires way too many unreasonable conditions to be useful.

You have to spam mid-term Zephyrs, so you end up with less cash to buy Blizzards, Hailstorms or Torts. Then in order to get the full effect, you need to make sure your opponent stays still for the full duration.

Maybe you can use it to snipe structures, but again, how many Zephyrs do you need for this to be actually effective?

This support power would be somewhat more useful if it buffed Zephyr firepower somehow but only allow enough time for Zephyrs to land two shots, or maybe you apply a slow when the shots land.

Mayhe have the Zephry Drone shots be devistating to buikdongs just in that instance since shooting from far away increases object interia and velocity, making it deadlier.

[CrimsonRaider]

Zephyr Beacon- Its a bit difficult to spot if there are way too mamy units or structures close toghether in an enemy base, and its really tiny. Could you make its red lights..pulse or much easier to spot, so PF players could see it better please?

Also, the Zephyr shots aren't guaranteed to land right where the beacon actually is -they tend to overshoot it a bit too much.

Really underused because your Zephyrs just don't hit the beacon mark at all in my experience.

A tip that might help: add a hotkey - I use 0 - to the zephyrs, place the beacon immediately 0 and attack, and you have plus 1 or maybe 2 volleys. But they have a tendency to miss if the target area is higher than the artillery (I think it is intended too), like in  the case of Boidmachine.
And a possible use for AI beacon: the computer doesn't have to have zephyrs, it just places the beacon, like the chinese band the EMP, and a 5 round burst of shots come from the sky with a delay to match the firerate of the zephyrs. Wild guess.

[Handepsilon]

The tendency to miss the target area at higher angle is a behavior all ballistic weaponries that has arcing trajectory share, and that's not something that can be fixed by Mentalmeisters on their own.

 

As for AI-only powers, I don't know if that's even possible. Yes, there are AI-only units, but that usually utilizes the fact that AI doesn't need to check for Prerequisites. That's not the same deal for Support Powers.

 

As for Zephyrs hitting buildings hard. I'm not sure. This is a T2 support power, not an endgame one, after all.

[Spinosaurus]

The tendency to miss the target area at higher angle is a behavior all ballistic weaponries that has arcing trajectory share, and that's not something that can be fixed by Mentalmeisters on their own.
 
As for AI-only powers, I don't know if that's even possible. Yes, there are AI-only units, but that usually utilizes the fact that AI doesn't need to check for Prerequisites. That's not the same deal for Support Powers.
 
As for Zephyrs hitting buildings hard. I'm not sure. This is a T2 support power, not an endgame one, after all.

Maybe do similar damage to the guardian GI at least? Thatbway you can use a bunch to destroy buildings?

[CrimsonRaider]

Their damge is usually enough to get low power if placed on the right tile by the nuclear reactor, or between 2 power plants or next to a windtrap.

I'm thinking about adding some sort of AI-only deployed zephyr, and a 'zephyrobot2' support power with that slowed down burst. If I'm correctBurst=5, BurstDelay0=xxx (I don't remember the exact value of zephyrs' RoF). But it's a bit complicated to just bringing back a T2 support power to the AI. But I'm gonna try something out at home, and see if anything works.

[JackoDerp]

Zephyrobot is somewhat underwhelming, even after it got its spread buff in 3.3.3.
It is oddly useful against Nuclear Reactors as previously mentioned though.

I would like to see the damage vs armoured units in general buffed a touch, but not much.


Missing up higher elevations is just an RA2 engine problem, you'll have to try and work around it.

[Spinosaurus]

Zephyrobot is somewhat underwhelming, even after it got its spread buff in 3.3.3.It is oddly useful against Nuclear Reactors as previously mentioned though.I would like to see the damage vs armoured units in general buffed a touch, but not much.Missing up higher elevations is just an RA2 engine problem, you'll have to try and work around it.

And depending on the map -especially desert maps- its not easy to tell where the low or high ground starts or ends.

[Death_Kitty]

I just wish there was a way to slow down the pace of the game, and let tiers 1 and 2 last longer. RN is just seems to be a game of "avoid run-by's until you get to tier 3 then spam faction-gimmic". 

[zanos]

I just wish there was a way to slow down the pace of the game, and let tiers 1 and 2 last longer. RN is just seems to be a game of "avoid run-by's until you get to tier 3 then spam faction-gimmic". 

Couldn't you just make tier 3 structures longer to build than? That way it takes longer for the later tier stuff to come out and play