15 replies to this topic

[Mikołaj Ciesiński]

Hi there everyone! 
First of all - what a great mod. You guys have done (and still doing) such a great amount of amazing job, but let's get onto the point, shall we? 

I'm starting this topic primarly because of one reason - I'd love to be "good" in this game. I know, it may sound a little bit strange, but hey - that's me, and I love to polish my skills in things I like. 

So, dear users of this forum and masters of fractions! I played a while, and I'm almost certainly sure that I'm mostly playing Allies and occasionally Foehn. Reffering to this, here is my first question: 

- Do you think that certain subfactions are a little bit underpowered?

For example, I played with Pacific Front, and I'm in total dark. I have no idea what to do with them. On the other side I'm this kind of player, who is amassing resources, building strong economy while turtling as hell, and then building high tier army with the ability to make precision, and quick strikes to definitely finish enemy with highly advanced army. Without further ado, my meritum and essence of this post built in few questions: 

- Do you think that static defenses are decent? 
- Do you have any tips for Allies? (And I'm talking about all three factions.) 
- Are there some kind of strategies in MO already? 
- Do the thing like, let's say, meta exists? 

If you, dear reader, have come so far, and you are now reading this - thank you, I'd love to see your answer, and by the way - don't be afraid to put your own few coins to this topic.
That's all from me, thanks for withstanding my long post!  

[Divine]

Static defenses are mediocre at best, and most of the maps are wide open anyway, so don't expect defenses to work very well against other players. Even against the AI their use is quite limited. I'm didn't play much as Allies, but as far as I can tell their main strength is mobility, more precisely, the abdundance of air units and chrono stuff. This is especially true for USA. We have a thread to let people vote on what they think the weakest subfaction is. The results are diverse, but EA and PF seem to get a lot of hate. I'm convvinced that pople who voted China are just trolling. PsiCorps is utter garbage, or at least against Foehn, this is my own personal experience. There are many strategies for MO, I'd rather not write down all that I know here. The current meta consists of playing as Haihead or Coronia, because they are ridiculously OP.

Edited by Divine, 13 February 2017 - 12:57 AM.

[Handepsilon]

Haihead and Coronia OP? clearly you haven't played Last Bastion

jk, but I think LB makes things a complete joke with Giantsbane and Godsbane. Let's also not forget Uragan

#isimplyam

[X1Destroy]

The only thing that LB lacks is a spammable long range artillery.

But in close combat LB units are just as nasty as Haihead units if not even more because they just refuse to die no matter what you throw at them. At the cost of being vulnerable to mind control though.

Psicorp when paired with HQ is one of the most annoying shits ever encountered.
When you use infantry Rahn turn them into Brutes. When you spam tanks Magnetrons and the new Magnetic beam support power just freeze them and then they become preys for elites and masterminds. When you go air with ground supports, Colossuses and the damn Irkalla wrecks everything. And when you want to retreat the fucking psicorps just do said freeze and capture shits. And if you turtle, expect Stalkers spam.

Edited by X1Destroy, 13 February 2017 - 03:04 AM.

[Handepsilon]

The only thing that LB lacks is a spammable long range artillery.

 

*cough*Godsbane*cough*

[Meyerm]

I like to keep a large rapid response force ready to spring into action at any moment. I love Russia and their wolfhounds for that reason. 

[Handepsilon]

Also, Chinese is strong, but their forces are VERY VERY slow. And they kinda lack the long range artillery except centurion siege crawler.

 

Nuwas are strong, but they're bad idea if you're against PsiCorps who makes decent use of his magnetic weaponry, because they don't have turrets to keep firing at enemies, especially if you forget about your Dragonfly and EMP Station.

Edited by Handepsilon, 13 February 2017 - 04:15 AM.

[Damfoos]

I personally like Allies because Tanya is OP they have mobility to execute well-placed Stallion drops strikes. I don't like spam, nor I have enough skill to develop the eco which will allow me to spam, so I prefer to rely on micro instead. So far USA is quite strong and PF is just insane if you've managed to get T3 and build a certain amount of Battle Tortoises - combined with Backwarp this army is very hard to stop unless the opponent is Epsilon. Foehn is strong but vulnerable early, until you've built enough harvesters and managed to secure them. I'm not sure what exactly makes PsiCorps underpowered, I'd rather say Scorpion Cell has problems in late game against heavy factions such as Haihead: Tyrants are countered by Diverbees, same goes for trikes and whoops, mind control and hijacking aren't that useful if Megalodons are coming (especially with the imba "oh you spam infantry? how nice" shield on) and their artillery unit is just useless against anything that can move (and even buildings don't suffer a lot), while most of the other factions can use their artillery to counter other artillery and in come cases units. They are cheap, but so innacurate that sometimes it doesn't matter if there's 5 or 10 of them, there's a high chance they will all miss anyway. This doesn't leave SC many options against HH.

As for necessary steps in playing: PvP is usually different from PvE. In PvE it is safer to go full defence, tech up and then accumulate an army. Then take out enemy powerplants with artillery or shut them down with spies, use the army to clear the way to their construction yard, destroy it and then both war factories, after that you can finish the rest. In PvP you can't just sit and wait, the opponent either will tech up himself, or will seize map control (+ resources and tech buildings) and will outspam you. There's also one significant difference: in PvP it is quite important to scout as soon as possible and deny scouting for your enemy. As Allies, don't forget to build Gap Generators, which are useless in PvE and it takes some time to develop the habit of building them. In early game make some dogs and send them across the map to scout and intercept enemy scouts. If the map has water, then scout water as well, because an unexpected attack can always come from there, same goes for areas close to map edge, some people may use them to sneak a strike team into your base. Defences don't play such a huge role in PvP unless it is a team game, so don't bother with building walls of them. In early game it is adviced to keep a ready T1 defence on standby to be placed, to intercept incoming scouts and units, after that you can sell the defence. Always wall off your CY, lab and radar, especially against Epsilon and Allies, because they can sneak spies into your base or blow it up (especially USA). In the beginning of the game your first building is Barracks, then you either go PP or Refinery. Sometimes it is better to build a powerplant so you can then place your refinery closer to resources. In Epsilon case I'd advice to start with powerplant because your T1 defence doesn't work without power. In general, see what your enemy is building and build units to counter it. Expect enemy to do the same thing and prepare to deal with his counters as well.

Edited by Damfoos, 13 February 2017 - 09:55 AM.

[DarkEmblem]

Steps:

 

1. Study units,buildings & abilities @ mentalomega.com

2. Improve your macro => Build orders, economy & expansion. 

3. Improve micro => Battle/unit management.

 

Play a lot of multiplayer and try to spectate some of there more known users. You'll learn quite some things.

[Handepsilon]

PvE is usually different from PvP.

FTFY

[CLAlstar]

Aite, time to shed some light.

 

 

- Do you think that certain subfactions are a little bit underpowered?

Yes and no. Yes, certain factions do lack something (EA for example feels strange to play) HOWEVER the player determines the skill, not faction. In your example - Pacific Front is the powerhouse of Allied factions, They have long range anti-tank assault (Zephyrs), decent frontline unit (battle Tortoise), Siege unit with one of highest ranges in game (Hailstorm) and several additions that greatly boost their survivalability - mainly Suppressors, those guys at cost of 2 slots in Battle Tortoise highly increase their survivalability. It's the faction you want to take against campers or if you want to gain teritorial control.

 

 

- Do you think that static defenses are decent?

Yes. Allied T1 static defense have obvious advantage - they do not cost power. Couple of turrets and pillboxes in your base can seriously hamper enemy movements during early game and even stop the assault. Later on with more unlocks, its good to have couple of prisms, gaps and (not as broken as in vanilla) grand cannons. They can be countered but they also help with defneding your positions.

 

 

- Do you have any tips for Allies? (And I'm talking about all three factions.)

USA - Highly mobile faction. Their MBT is effective against infantry, unlike other factions due to flashbang attack and firepower debbuff applied to enemy infantry. Warhawks are one of bets supporting untis in the game - keep them behind, when engage happens then pop them in and let them attack until they proc their target painter. Also decent at hit'n'run attacks. Always fire Mercury Strike + Target painter combo in combination i wrote since delay on Merc Strike is big enough to let you freely paint the targets in meanwhile. USA T3 is highly superior in elliminating mass infantry - Abrams Tanks, Tanya, Riot Trooper and Athena Cannon can easily deal with them on all ranges. Athena's friend is fog of war - they do not get revealed when firing.

 

EA - Defensive force of Allies. Cavaliers are one of best building killers in the game due to autoloader. Their IFV is more armored but slower. Mirage tanks are on T2 but they lose their anti-infantry efficiency. Its your main anti-tank unit in the lategame. Charon tank can easily elliminate single targets, making them efficient against costly units like T3 tanks or MCV's. They do not work on epic units. Thor is one of best anti-air and anti-infantry units in the game. Deployed thor boosts defense of all nearby ground untis but slow them down - good for fighting on chokepoints. Prism Tanks are self explainatory. Coordnode boost firepower of all nearby defenses. Harriers apply short armor debuff, making them better than other jets at elliminating highhly armored targets.

 

PF is explained earlier, but i'll add this. Kappa tanks can be a nice addition to your ships. Black Eagle deals splash damage, making them efficient against ground units. Zephyr have problems wieh attacking higher ground - make sure they are on higher elevation than Zephyr beacon. About beacon itself, its a range extension for all zephyrs, making their range affect entire map but ONLY when attacking said beacon. Efficient at attacking unsuspecting groups of tanks.

 

 

- Are there some kind of strategies in MO already?

Yes, but barely any of them are written. You can notice some behaviors in player's actions. You can check my videos to take the idea.

 

 

- Do the thing like, let's say, meta exists?

Fuck the meta. As long as its effective, it works for me. Unless its mass foxtrots. Or mass megalodons vs epsilon. Ugh.

 

if you have any questions then feel free to message me on cncnet, usually you can find me under nick AlstarIRC. Im Polish aswell so there should be no problems with explaining stuff.

 

Welp, hopefully this was helpful.

[Mikołaj Ciesiński]

Whoa! Thanks all of you for amazing answers. Now I can't wait to get into the fray!  

[Hardric62]

And I'll hijack this subject for a moment, and not starting one more. Would it pe possible have hints about the Foehn subfactions, with Haihead coming in first  in my mind? I know, videos and practice do the trick as well, probably better too, but time restraints are there too, and I don't know if it's me being unlucky, but I have difficulties to find videos involving Haihead.

 

Always with this in mind, would it be that much of a bad idea to create a thread, potentially pinned, for discussions about strategy and tactics?

[Scud]

Hailhead it's the perfect faction to make good of use of the jackals alongside with their exclusive basic tank the Cyclops, cause both of them are really fast, just do some hit and run strikes on yours enemy base where they have few defenses and take out their key structures and miners. Also, remember the jackals armor sucks, but infantry can shot from inside (Fin and Alize inside them is risky but a nasty suprise) so try to take some of your miners to repair them while you keep moving to prevent focus fire on your units. Lastly, this rapid response group of jackals+cyclops+racoons+miners is great to sneak engineers or lure big armies inside a MADMAN radius, always build those, they only cost 3000 and are great to take out big armies/bases, do the same with irritators or mix them with your infantry, they are one of the best support units.

[Hardric62]

Thanks for the answer, and sorry for the late answer. Would you also have suggestons for other Foehn subfactions, by chance?

[NorthFireZ]

So here is a standard build order I usually use for Allies, and since Allies are getting buffs in 3.3.1 I suggest you keep at practicing them!
1) barracks, 5 dogs for scouting, some people go 3 dogs for scouting and 2 G.i for defense. Keep in mind that a pair of deployed G.Is can take out a dog.
2) depending on the map and of the opponent is Foehn or not, move MCV to gems, or start on the first refinery.
3) power plant
4) war factory (could possibly replace this with an airfield, but keep in mind Ally aircrafts are not as powerful as Foxtrots) 5) an Ifv, 3 miners, and another refinery.
6) Airfield to gain access to more infantry.
7) a power plant upgrade and a mercury uplink/robot control center/shield command
8) power plant
9) warfactory
10) tech lab.
During all this, grab those OIL DERICKS! The cash you get from dericks is invaluable to early builds. Also do not under estimate the power of a small group of Ally infantry, use their firepower well for map control, don't just sit them around in front of your base.
P.s if you are playing USA always always always always build the Air control tower. The paratroopers and Bloodhounds are extremely cost efficient. They allow rapid deployment and also allow you to deep stroke in the enemy back line. Highly useful structure that also allows you to que as much Abrams, Aero blaze and Athenas for maximum production and still get IFVs for repairs. (Space Marines be like, Did somebody say... deep strike?)