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Castles Edain

castles edain builder

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#1 Tukolp

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 09:17 AM

First of all, Greetings to all fellow modders of this game,

I playing Edain 4.4.1 ( this is the lastes version right ? I use edain launcher, updater ) and I enjoy it, but I would have two or three questions about it. I hope you can help me with them smilie.gif

My first interest is about the mods system, I would ask, I is there any possibility to build in Edain freely, to bring back on some of the maps ( or on all of them, also in wotr ) the builder system ? Because I would like to build freely, set up my base, because now I feel a bit limited.

Second question is about the castles in Edain. I managed to open some bse files, and saw the castles, like for example angmar.castle, but I wanted to replace its citadel with angmar fortress, to be its default center (without fortification expansions ), for recruiting heroes and for regular citadel commands. I could add it as a middle of the base by removing the previous one, but it could not  funcion like the original citadel: some heroes were missing, and also some ring functions were also missing, but I saw the RotWK angmar forress upgrades (some of them ). Is there any possibility to make the RotWK fortress building work as a proper center of the base ( I would like to use the fortress original upgrades too), like the original citadel ? I would do this on all of the bases ( of course with an apropiate fortress building ) to work like the middle of the base.

My third question is a bit connected to the one above:
As we know threre are defensive expansions one the fortress walls, like for exapmle on angmar's castle.bse. But what if I would like to replace them, with the ones from the original RotWk fortress plots ( where you build build arrow towers, catapults, wolf kernels, wall hubs, wall hubs are not necessary, but would be interesting ), to be upgradeable with ice munitions and all of the stuff what was originaly available from within the fortress what I spoke of above. And of course it is the idea to make this with all on the castles bse. files (with the apropiate buildings )So the second and the third question is a bit connected to each other, but I separated them to make my questions more clear smilie.gif

Thank you for reading my question, what gone a bit long, ( I don't expected that ) smilie.gif

I hope you can help me, I wait your answers excitedly.

Regards,
Tukolp



#2 Kwen

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 07:09 PM

For your first question, the short answer is yes but the long answer is probably not. It CAN be done, just replace the base information Edain included with default Fortress bases and find the code that auto spawns builders or not, likely Edain has turned that off. But the problem here is that Edain has likely modified so much stuff that it is not as simple as switching back to the old way. Chances are you would ruin into one huge major problem after another which leads to a long road of frustration and sub-par experience. you' be better off starting from the ground and making a mod the way you want it from the start. If it's a personal mod without intention of being released/showcased then you can use any codes/assets you wish and get the result you want. but starting with a fully fledged mod and trying to work backwards is a nightmare, trust me on that.

 

As for your second question, I suggest you cross compare the commandsets of the Angmar Citadel and Fortress. Most likely something is missing from the Fortress since they switched to using the Citadel. Just make sure what you want is included in the Fortress Commandset and it should work fine.

 

Third, Really applies to just what you include in the bse and commandset. I believe if you include the defense plots and just adjust what is presetn on their respective commandsets it should also appear in game correctly.

 

Do keep in mind as I have said previously, doing these things effectively breaks the AI. The AI relies on a specific method of base construction. In BFME1 with the castle unpack system the AI was entirely scrip based and was designed to function with the bases in mind, in BFME2 the AI has been stripped down to a much more simple mechanic, but is reliant on the build-anywhere and Fortress system. So if you include castles in BFME2 with build plots, the AI has no idea how to use them and as such does nothing. If you intend to just use the Fortress and castle together but retain the build-anywhere system, you will have to change the configuration of the AI structure "build plan" which is another map or bse file, I can't remember which one exactly. It sets up in tiers what buildings the AI will try to build and in what order. You have to take into consideration the size and shape of the castle because if the AI tries to build anything that would conflict with other objects in the map, it will just stop doing anything all together and be effectively broken.

 

Yeah, what you want is doable, but it's complex and delicate. This is one of those things that done right makes the very soul of a mod great, but it has to be well implemented or else it will be buggy, broken, and will make the game virtually unplayable except for online.

 

As I said, it is better to try things out on your own in a more controlled environment such as your own mod. Trying to do these things in Edain would be a disaster because they've already done so much that any major tinkering is likely to critically break something and you will be left frustrated and discouraged.


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#3 Dúnedain76

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 07:15 PM

Adding onto what Kwen said, I'd recommend instead just trying to add the new stuff from their latest patch into the older versions which still had the freebuild system. Because trying to do what you want to do is a lot more than editing a line of code.


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#4 Tukolp

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:02 PM

I realy thankful for all of you help here, because want to do so much thing, and I have many ideas.

But I have one huge problem. When you say "coding, Ini making ( I found some of them, in the data folder), bsa files ( i found them also and tried to edit them), texturing, scripting, and adding things to the game, I just started this, I dont know what are these meaning. Or how to do them. What I know is that I can edit inis in notepad, edit bse files, maps sometimes, but I have no idea about making the ini connected to the game, units, buildings the basics of moding. I read bunch of tutorials, but none of them explainig the very basics of moding and how to build it up. And of course I don't know how to compare or complete the RotWk fortress with the commands from the edain citadel, to make it work.

For example I would like to add Arveleg from RJ to Edain, because I miss him, and I like to play with him, but I have no idea how to that, I searched for a guide, read it, but I can't understand how to make connection, with the model, spells, attacks, weapon ini, and the caracters speaking, and the sound of his spells.

 

And about what Dunedain76 said, I don't know how to do that too, I have edain 4.4.1 I play that now. So maybe I should complete the older edain with the components of the 4.4.1 ? But then I should add the new units to the AI too right ? So they can use them .

 

I should find somewhere the "The very starter guide for BfME modders" reading :D

I will keep looking.


Edited by Tukolp, 25 February 2017 - 08:05 PM.


#5 Tukolp

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:29 PM

Or if you can give any source It would help me a lot.

( I was not be able to edit at this time )


Edited by Tukolp, 25 February 2017 - 08:29 PM.


#6 Mathijs

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:31 PM

Have you looked at the beginner tutorials on our website?


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#7 Tukolp

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 09:22 PM

Thanks for replying back.

I saw much of them, and read many. But I still dont know where should I start. I mean the pillars on knowledge of modding is missing for me.
For example, where are all these things are getting connected ? And which means what. Esspecially with the coding site, and making things connected, To get one unit's model, his/her  "weapons-damage ?", abilities, sounds, together. To buildings work properly with their recruitable upgrades, heroes, units all what I need. This with the textures also.

 

Sorry, but I want to make this surely, that I understand exactly how I should.

Maybe I should start my own mod, for start, with adding new unit to a builing or making a hero or a new building. But I dont know how to add a new buildong to worldbuilder :D



#8 Kwen

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:27 AM

There are three major categories of modding for these games, you have Coding, Modelling/Texturing, and Mapping/Scripting. Coding is of course modifying the ini files to add/remove/change the default game, Modelling/Texturing is of course making new artwork that would go alongside any new content added with code, and Mapping/Scripting is mostly unnecessary for the beginning stages of a mod, but later on it's important for adding uniqueness and getting into scripts allows you to do some things that are not possible with code alone.

 

As far as what tools you would use for each of these, FinalBig is used to access all the ini files which are by default located in ini.big in the game's main directory. You would extract all the ini files to a new folder that you create, and here will be the foundation of a new mod. Notepad++ is the most ideal editor for the ini files themselves, although you can edit them directly in FinalBig, it's not the best.

 

For Modelling/Texturing you will need RenX/Gmax or 3ds Max 7/8. The first is free but is terrible, the latter isn't free but can be "acquired" we just don't provide links. These are the modelling programs that work directly with the game. For texturing you would need to use Gimp or Photoshop, again one free the other not.

 

Mapping/Scripting is all done using Worldbuilder. The only thing you would really need Worldbuilder for initially is editing base files if that's what you want to focus on. Though I will tell you that it's not wise to take your first stab at modding with something complex and delicate. You'll get really frustrated. :p

 

--

 

Expanding on the coding thing, you mention that you don't understand how the different aspects of a unit correlate. Well any unit/hero/building will have a default code file (aragorn.ini for example) which contains the majority of the code. In here is the Model/Animation information, what Weapons, Armor, Audio to use, and what spells/abilities they have. Things like Weapons, Upgrades, Armor, will all be expanded on in more detail in their own ini files. The main code is just a reference to them.

 

Just extract the ini.big file to give yourself access to all the code files intact and without edits, and just sift through them. You'll quickly begin to see which files reference which other ones, and what you can do with them.

 

 

--

 

Edain is problematic because they decided to make their mod function differently than the others. Or rather, they compile their mod into multiple different .big files and they're inserted directly into the game directory also. So if you want to see/edit the codes for Edain you would have to find which .big file contains their code. Extract it with FinalBig, edit the files as you see fit, then recompile with FinalBig and replace (backup!!!) the original .big file with the edited one.

 

I am warning you though, editing other mods like that can be a massive headache. And if you talk about it publicly you might get backlash because people are very defensive with their work and don't usually like other people tinkering with it. But if it's for private use there's nothing stopping you.

 

--

 

Final thing, read this to get an idea of how to set up a new mod and get it to work in the game. Once you know how to set up a mod the other stuff starts to make more sense. You'll know where things go and what they do, even if you don't know how to do them yet, at least you'll have an idea as to the direction.


Edited by Kwen, 26 February 2017 - 12:29 AM.

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#9 Tukolp

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 05:12 PM

I managed some things in my time and I made a topic for my thoughts at their forum ( Modding Union).
If you would like to read it I post it here too ( No answers until now ) I hope I will get a few. :D
https://modding-unio....html#msg454203







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