14 replies to this topic

[Gameman112358]

Let me start this thread by saying that I like to mess with the ini and core files. I really do. Mods like TI and ROTR, I mod them like nuts to suit my personal tastes. I don't really care about too much about balance issues coming up from my changes, since I don't play MP and I have no intention of releasing the modified files for public use, ever. It's so much fun to do such a thing. It's even more fun when a map editor gets involved; I often times modify skirmish maps and, in TI's case, campaign maps for my own personal use. Sometimes I want to see a unit that has not been shown yet. Sometimes I have trouble with "suspension of disbelief" in the campaign, so I modify it to have it make more sense. Sometimes I just enjoy modifying maps to my favor. There are lots of reasons for what I do.

 

With that being said, I'm baffled why Mental Omega's major game files are locked; other mods like TI and ROTR have accessible inis, core files, and a map editor that people can use to alter the game to their own personal tastes. The only mod on my list that doesn't have what I mentioned is M.O., and I'm curious why this mod is locking their files down so tightly, as well as the fact that it doesn't have a map editor out yet.

 

Regarding INIs and other core files: I really want to bring back some old units and make them trainable/part of a paradrop (Cyborg Prototypes) and buff certain ones (Eureka, Snipers, Warhawks), but the ini files for the units, weapons, buildings, support and attack powers, and other core files are locked. I don't know why; did people steal your assets and code? Is it because there are spoilers in the inis? Are you guys worried about people not being able to play multiplayer and then complaining about it? Can't speak for the rest of the community, but I don't really care for MP that much (too stressful and time-consuming), so I wouldn't mind not being able to play MP in return for having the INI files accessible. And if it's spoilers, I promise I won't reveal any. I tweak INIs for personal use only; I never release my altered files to the public in general. So I'm not going to reveal anything important, if that's the worry.

 

Regarding the Map Editor: I've seen various posts about this topic, and it must be tiresome for you guys (the devs) to see this, but at the same time, I'm really wondering why there is no map editor released to the public. Is it because it's really hard to make for public use? Is it loaded with spoilers? (Map editors with access to campaign maps can be pretty spoiler loaded, I will admit) Again, I'm not going to reveal anything important that is related to the plot of the campaign; I just want to mod some of the maps that I find a little ridiculous (no offense to the guys who make these awesome, detailed campaign maps, but I don't really enjoy seeing a bunch of random barrels strewn everyone in my base, and I certainly don't enjoy dealing with poor AI that is making my job unnecessarily more difficult. The Map Editor can change what AI you want at which position, I think, which is why I really want the Map Editor so bad, so I can make the AI ally useful to the player). 

 

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, given that I've talked about the lack of a map editor and accessible inis in other threads before, but at the same time, I'm legitimately curious why the game's files are locked and there's no MO map editor out there, and I really want to know the answers behind why.

[Damfoos]

Standard YR map editor doesn't work with MO because it can't read from locked archives and because MO archives and rules files are named diffeeently, so even if they weren't locked the editor couldn't see them anyway. While the latter is easy to solve by hex editing the FA2 executable, the former requires the mod archives to not be locked, which is something MO devs can't afford due to some reasons. If there would be a way to make FA2 bypass the protection, I think there would be a public map editor already.

[Derxwna Kapsyla]

Let me start this thread by saying that I like to mess with the ini and core files. I really do. Mods like TI and ROTR, I mod them like nuts to suit my personal tastes. I don't really care about too much about balance issues coming up from my changes, since I don't play MP and I have no intention of releasing the modified files for public use, ever. It's so much fun to do such a thing. It's even more fun when a map editor gets involved; I often times modify skirmish maps and, in TI's case, campaign maps for my own personal use. Sometimes I want to see a unit that has not been shown yet. Sometimes I have trouble with "suspension of disbelief" in the campaign, so I modify it to have it make more sense. Sometimes I just enjoy modifying maps to my favor. There are lots of reasons for what I do.

 

With that being said, I'm baffled why Mental Omega's major game files are locked; other mods like TI and ROTR have accessible inis, core files, and a map editor that people can use to alter the game to their own personal tastes. The only mod on my list that doesn't have what I mentioned is M.O., and I'm curious why this mod is locking their files down so tightly, as well as the fact that it doesn't have a map editor out yet.

 

Regarding INIs and other core files: I really want to bring back some old units and make them trainable/part of a paradrop (Cyborg Prototypes) and buff certain ones (Eureka, Snipers, Warhawks), but the ini files for the units, weapons, buildings, support and attack powers, and other core files are locked. I don't know why; did people steal your assets and code? Is it because there are spoilers in the inis? Are you guys worried about people not being able to play multiplayer and then complaining about it? Can't speak for the rest of the community, but I don't really care for MP that much (too stressful and time-consuming), so I wouldn't mind not being able to play MP in return for having the INI files accessible. And if it's spoilers, I promise I won't reveal any. I tweak INIs for personal use only; I never release my altered files to the public in general. So I'm not going to reveal anything important, if that's the worry.

 

Regarding the Map Editor: I've seen various posts about this topic, and it must be tiresome for you guys (the devs) to see this, but at the same time, I'm really wondering why there is no map editor released to the public. Is it because it's really hard to make for public use? Is it loaded with spoilers? (Map editors with access to campaign maps can be pretty spoiler loaded, I will admit) Again, I'm not going to reveal anything important that is related to the plot of the campaign; I just want to mod some of the maps that I find a little ridiculous (no offense to the guys who make these awesome, detailed campaign maps, but I don't really enjoy seeing a bunch of random barrels strewn everyone in my base, and I certainly don't enjoy dealing with poor AI that is making my job unnecessarily more difficult. The Map Editor can change what AI you want at which position, I think, which is why I really want the Map Editor so bad, so I can make the AI ally useful to the player). 

 

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, given that I've talked about the lack of a map editor and accessible inis in other threads before, but at the same time, I'm legitimately curious why the game's files are locked and there's no MO map editor out there, and I really want to know the answers behind why.

 

One of the biggest reasons to the locking of mixes and inis is because the Command & Conquer Modding community has been rampant with people who steal assets and use them in their own projects, without the permission of the person who made the assets or the team in charge of the project. These incidents have made developers extremely wary, and I cannot fault anybody for locking down their assets as a precaution. The visible inis in other mods is not merely so you can mess around with them, but instead a choice the developers made to leave them out in the open.

 

Another one of the bigger reasons why the inis are locked- like you pointed out yourself, there are things present in the ini files that aren't in the game yet, for various reasons. For example, somebody already spoiled the existence certain unit that's probably going to be appearing in the Soviet campaign. There's also all the people who have taken spoilers and posted them on the wiki. Sure, maybe you won't post the spoilers, but leaving them open to everyone means that everyone has a chance to see them, post about them, and ruin the surprise for someone who wanted to experience in-game first hand. 

 

The map editor is a can of worms in-and-of-itself. A long while back, there was a new map editor in the works that would completely supersede the existence of Final Alert 2, and be released alongside Mental Omega. However, to my knowledge, development has been indefinitely iced for reasons (reasons I am not aware of, as I haven't been part of the greater community in years). Until such time that the team posts a way to get the map editor working with Mental Omega, the best you'll have to do is edit everything by hand, and that would require having access to the maps. And even then, Final Alert 2 is a bit antiquated and not exactly the Best Tool In The Shed, especially when such a hefty mod as Mental Omega is involved.

 

We probably- and this is just a guess, so don't take it as the gospel truth- won't see a functioning map editor for the mod until after the final release is made.

[siegelad]

Just like a few posted here, the .mixs are protected and there's no "Final Omega" public release until the devs decide to change it, which one of the reasons is that the game wasn't fully released yet (i think it's the last missions and the Foehn ones), hopefully we'll get all the access after its final version, personally i would love to make some "covert" missions.

[Solais]

One of the reasons the inis are locked, because they often cause problems with updates, and may cause people to report bugs that technically are non-existent. I shamefully fell into this trap myself, when I reported how a certain campaign mission was bugged, but it turned out it was because I forgot to remove my modded RulesMO.ini file of the previous version.

As a game developer myself who originally worked in Q&A for years before I got to this position, I'm painfully aware of many "false reports" caused by modded files, and all the trouble they can be if reported en-masse. They just waste time and muddle the database.

 

There are ways to obtain the ini files, but obviously those who know this information won't post them publicly out of our respect to the developers. It is the developer's choice when and if these files would be released to the public.

Edited by Solais, 18 March 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[Child Hater]

Because developers don't like fun.

[Divine]

There should be a publicly available list of MO entity names to be used with notepad and FA. That way people could make MO maps (although it would be a bit hard), and the mix and ini files could remain locked. Units that would spoil the campaing, WIP's, and other stuff that are supposed ot remain hidden would simply not be featured on this list.

[Solais]

I'm sure once the campaign is done and finished, and a sort of "final" version is reached for MO, then the inis will be available. This is no confirmation, as I'm not part of the team, but I think that would be the best choice.

[X1Destroy]

There is an easy way for anyone to get the rules.ini without breaking the mix protection. However, it's bloody time consuming and by the time a new patch come out you'll have to do it again, so I don't think it's worth it.
 

Edited by X1Destroy, 18 March 2017 - 02:07 PM.

[Gameman112358]

Alright, time to break this down. Note, a lot of this is just from my perspective; I can't speak for the majority of the player base.

One of the reasons the inis are locked, because they often cause problems with updates, and may cause people to report bugs that technically are non-existent. I shamefully fell into this trap myself, when I reported how a certain campaign mission was bugged, but it turned out it was because I forgot to remove my modded RulesMO.ini file of the previous version.

As a game developer myself who originally worked in Q&A for years before I got to this position, I'm painfully aware of many "false reports" caused by modded files, and all the trouble they can be if reported en-masse. They just waste time and muddle the database.

 

There are ways to obtain the ini files, but obviously those who know this information won't post them publicly out of our respect to the developers. It is the developer's choice when and if these files would be released to the public.

 

I can understand the frustration of bullsh*t bug reports from people with modified game files somewhat; I've heard of stories of it happening in other games, and it can be quite frustrating when it does come up. 

 

For me, bug reports aren't really something that I do very much, if at all. Mainly because it's very easy to simply complain about a 'bug' that may actually be a feature that is intentionally done by the devs (those who have played E19 "Dance of Blood" mission will know what I'm talking about). Not mentioning that I'm not going to make a report unless I'm absolutely sure that the 'bug' is actually a bug and not an intended feature, and the bug can be consistently reproduced.

 

In all honesty though, if there was a way to obtain the ini files, I would be more than happy for someone to PM me how. I'm not asking for the people who found a way to get the ini files to post their methods all over the forum, but at the same time, I really want to take a look at the ini files, mess around with them a little bit, test out some stuff and see how much it affects balance (If I had access to the inis, I'd try out some of my ideas for Eureka, for example. The one heroine that I've been harping on for being too weak and useless ever since I came onto the forum). I can promise that I won't spoil anything, nor will I steal any MO assets (I don't even know how). I have no intention of releasing the ini files to the public, and the ini files I modify will be for personal use only. If the developers want spoiler laden stuff under wraps, I'd be more than happy to respect the dev's wishes. All I ask is that someone PM me how they got the inis.

 

There is an easy way for anyone to get the rules.ini without breaking the mix protection. However, it's bloody time consuming and by the time a new patch come out you'll have to do it again, so I don't think it's worth it.
 

Updates for MO don't come out that fast, IMO, so I wouldn't mind being PMed the way of getting the rules.ini so I can take a look at it between updates, even if it is time consuming to do so. 

[Revan0123]

Alright, time to break this down. Note, a lot of this is just from my perspective; I can't speak for the majority of the player base.

One of the reasons the inis are locked, because they often cause problems with updates, and may cause people to report bugs that technically are non-existent. I shamefully fell into this trap myself, when I reported how a certain campaign mission was bugged, but it turned out it was because I forgot to remove my modded RulesMO.ini file of the previous version.

As a game developer myself who originally worked in Q&A for years before I got to this position, I'm painfully aware of many "false reports" caused by modded files, and all the trouble they can be if reported en-masse. They just waste time and muddle the database.

 

There are ways to obtain the ini files, but obviously those who know this information won't post them publicly out of our respect to the developers. It is the developer's choice when and if these files would be released to the public.

 

I can understand the frustration of bullsh*t bug reports from people with modified game files somewhat; I've heard of stories of it happening in other games, and it can be quite frustrating when it does come up. 

 

For me, bug reports aren't really something that I do very much, if at all. Mainly because it's very easy to simply complain about a 'bug' that may actually be a feature that is intentionally done by the devs (those who have played E19 "Dance of Blood" mission will know what I'm talking about). Not mentioning that I'm not going to make a report unless I'm absolutely sure that the 'bug' is actually a bug and not an intended feature, and the bug can be consistently reproduced.

 

In all honesty though, if there was a way to obtain the ini files, I would be more than happy for someone to PM me how. I'm not asking for the people who found a way to get the ini files to post their methods all over the forum, but at the same time, I really want to take a look at the ini files, mess around with them a little bit, test out some stuff and see how much it affects balance (If I had access to the inis, I'd try out some of my ideas for Eureka, for example. The one heroine that I've been harping on for being too weak and useless ever since I came onto the forum). I can promise that I won't spoil anything, nor will I steal any MO assets (I don't even know how). I have no intention of releasing the ini files to the public, and the ini files I modify will be for personal use only. If the developers want spoiler laden stuff under wraps, I'd be more than happy to respect the dev's wishes. All I ask is that someone PM me how they got the inis.

 

There is an easy way for anyone to get the rules.ini without breaking the mix protection. However, it's bloody time consuming and by the time a new patch come out you'll have to do it again, so I don't think it's worth it.
 

Updates for MO don't come out that fast, IMO, so I wouldn't mind being PMed the way of getting the rules.ini so I can take a look at it between updates, even if it is time consuming to do so. 

I agree. I have played C&C for more than 5 years and have no plans to show anything or tell anyone of what might be in the INI files. Much like you, I wish to edit these files for my own personal use (Think of it like using cheat codes after you beaten the game properly, it doesn't hurt you to do it).

 

If the devs are keeping the whole thing hush hush for the time being due to spoiler material then I understand why they have to lock them and hide it away.

Edited by Revan0123, 18 March 2017 - 11:02 PM.

[DetectiveTaco]

There should be a publicly available list of MO entity names to be used with notepad and FA. That way people could make MO maps (although it would be a bit hard), and the mix and ini files could remain locked. Units that would spoil the campaing, WIP's, and other stuff that are supposed ot remain hidden would simply not be featured on this list.

You can use the last part of the MO Units/Inf/Structures URL as entity names (i.e http://mentalomega.c..._infantry#lanc)

Edited by DetectiveTaco, 19 March 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[Divine]

 

There should be a publicly available list of MO entity names to be used with notepad and FA. That way people could make MO maps (although it would be a bit hard), and the mix and ini files could remain locked. Units that would spoil the campaing, WIP's, and other stuff that are supposed ot remain hidden would simply not be featured on this list.

You can use the last part of the MO Units/Inf/Structures URL as entity names (i.e http://mentalomega.c..._infantry#lanc)

 

This never occured to me, however, just with a quick look on the site I already found three units that have different names than what their URL suggest. Besides that, what really matters for making are civilian buildings and various misc objects. What you suggest is a useful little bit of information, tho.

Edited by Divine, 19 March 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[Documental]

I don't know, I think It's hard to fathom just how much time this all takes. And ought to be apart of history.

That client music is my jam though

[yunru the gundealer]

i would love to see the inis handed out once the mod is said and done though, as for a map maker, yes tell us how the heck you people do that so we can jump onto the map making train