17 replies to this topic

[RushingRasputin]

Getting straight to the point, I mainly play LC for PvP against my friends and online. Ive recently started picking up Russia and been struggling alot, but my most problematic matchup right now is against US. 

Paradrop gives them alot of map control and they can field an effective airforce long before me, shutting down my timing attacks. Their timing attacks with Bulldogs catch me off guard and I usually result to turtling up with Battle Bunkers at base. 

Later on in the game, Abrams Tanks wipe out any infantry I field and can take on my Tesla Crusiers with their superior range and numbers (and perhaps firepower, but I can't confirm it until I can get hard stats) in both small scale skirmishes to large scale assaults. Aeroblazes effectively shut down my Wolfhounds, Athena cannons can siege really well and even do alot of damage in a large engagement. Also, Tanya IFV. 

Im used to LC vs USA by just overpowering them with Catastrophe + Buratinos and reducing their armies firepower with the smoke bombs. Mortar quads also decimate their tank squadrons quite nicely and I can mount a fast Jaguar rush earlier on. 

I need pointers on early game so that I can build up an economy, and late game so I can win the big fights to take the fight to their base as Russia. 

[RushingRasputin]

Sorry for a double post. Please take this down @ mods. 

[aethiraes]

How long have you been playing MO and what's your experience with previous RA2.

What is your typical build order.
Barracks -> Refinery -> Reactor -> Refinery or something else?

What specific strategies do you take to countering each of the things that are giving you problems?

It would be easier to help if someone were to watch you play, but on the forum, you'd have to describe how you're playing so it's easier to help.

[RushingRasputin]

How long have you been playing MO and what's your experience with previous RA2.

What is your typical build order.
Barracks -> Refinery -> Reactor -> Refinery or something else?

What specific strategies do you take to countering each of the things that are giving you problems?

It would be easier to help if someone were to watch you play, but on the forum, you'd have to describe how you're playing so it's easier to help.

Ive been playing MO for 3 months but just started PvP a month ago. I used to play RA2 as a kid but only against the AI. 

I start with barracks -> dogs -> conscripts -> 1st battle bunker -> refinery -> WF -> 2 war miners 

I usually open up with a timing attack of 5-7 Jaguars shortly after the war miner. If my enemy went for a more defensive approach, I would get an extra miner and some terror drone harassment while I tech up to T2 to get Borillos and Pyros and get Foxtrots running.

With Russia, I dont usually dont have enough Rhinos for their first timing attack with Bulldogs and I often get a second battle bunker with flak troopers. This leads to me playing defensive and not building up a big economy. 

When I do have a comfortable amount of Rhinos they often have Warhawks in the air so naturally I build AA. Tigrs are nice but they get taken out by Stormchilds and the Bulldogs on the ground. They also have to fight off infantry since Rhinos cant crush infantry due to their speed. 

By late game Im behind in economy and I get beaten. If I am in equal terms, Wolfhounds die to Aeroblazes while Im having trouble beating Abrams Tanks with my TCs. 
 

[yunru the gundealer]

i am no pro at this game but i go for

 

        |----> battle bunkers -> flak cannon
        |
barracks -> ore refinery -> power plant -> war factory -> more power plants
        |                                                                |

attack dogs                                          about 3 war miners

        |                                                                |

engineers                                                      tigrs

        |                                                                |
flak/cons                                                     other tanks

[Stimpak]

As far as countering Abrams/Stryker/Aeroblaze deathballs goes, all I can really think of is Volkov. Other than that, you just need to out maneuver him with Tesla cruisers and Foxtrots/Dustdevils. Snipe the Aeroblazes using foxtrots or rushing Tesla cruisers if you want to just spam Wolfhounds. 4 Foxtrots one-hit any unit he can field and do great area damage as well. A second airbase with dustdevils also nerfs him hard if he chooses to commit instead of kite.

 

Other than that, it's probably best to focus on denying his T3 in the first place and forcing him into T2 where Soviets rule.

[TeslaCruiser]

my build order for Russia

 

Barracks>PP>Refinery>WF>Refinery>PP>PP>Field Boureau>NReactor>Palace>WF

        >dogs, basic infantry>4-6 MINERS (+2 miners from refineries) / flack troopers can deal whit bulldogs just fine

        >pillbox (keep it ready don't deploy use for anti-scout/defend)

So I basically skip Russian tier 1 units, use T2 infantry to defend, and build a T3 army

If SW are on, build it IC>use borillos and Tank drop at the same time and use IC to take advantage of your split

                    Nuclear M

If SW are off, build more WF and or Industrial Plant

 

Keep your economy strong, stretch to gems, remember always gems first. If your enemy waits for you, use that time to build more miners, it is not crazy to have more than 8 miners in a lot of maps. Do not expend too much on defenses 1 single bunker cost a lot and is useless against tier 2 infantry like siege cadres. In the other hand, T3 defences are very useful on shock points, and flack cannons are good against Norio-choppers.

 

If you can prevent your enemy from scout you, don´t be afraid to sneak a DemoTruck, always aim for WF/airfield

Build Soviet Airbase at some point (after palace is an option) so you can use smoke bombers> 1 dustdevil+3 foxtrots is a nice combo to help you win a battle/harass infantry and a good way to kill Tanya/riot troopers.

Your T3 units have the damage to deal with US army, so don't be afraid to press ctrl+shift and send all in, OVERCHARGE + IC is just nasty

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 26 March 2017 - 06:18 PM.

[aethiraes]

You might also want to take advantage of Russian paradrops as well if the enemy doesn't leave defences or units.

 

Rhino drop is arguably more effective than American Infantry + Bloodhounds. Basic tanks have a decent punch when they're massed, but it may be hard to sneak them in if they're slow, but paradrop solves this problem.

 

If the enemy is paradropping you back, Terrors + Dogs usually solves the problem. Paratroops is $1200, dogs are $100 and bloodhounds are $1800 while terrors are $500. It's relatively cheap to counter if you have 8 or so dogs and 2-3 terrors. 

 

If you aren't aware already, the four main factions (generally) fall under certain specialisations.

 

Soviets - Tanks

Allies - Balanced, but focus on Airforce

Epsilon - Infantry 

Foehn - Mostly balanced

 

So keep up your flak troops and wolfhounds. Allies will always get a better airforce and you need to counter that. Wolfhounds are great in that they are extremely versatile, they can fight infantry, armour, and air. US Aeroblazes on the other hand, are strictly anti-air and about the same cost as an Abrams. If you've forced the enemy to build Aeroblazes, they have one less Abrams to strengthen their ground forces. Meanwhile, Wolfhounds still have decent effectiveness against ground threats. 

Edited by aethiraes, 26 March 2017 - 07:18 PM.

[Stimpak]

Problem with countering Abrams is that they outrange everything Russia has on the ground in addition to being just as fast. A good player will just ball up Abrams and Aeroblaze then kite for days before pushing you in with that same deathball + Athena cannons. The only solid answer is Volkov, and he's just a handful of Athena strikes or Stormchild lasers away from being vaporized.

[TeslaCruiser]

And that is why Tesla Cruisers can stop enemy units, in some point enemy needs to push you and then you just push back. But be aware of Hummingbird

[Stimpak]

Hard to stop them with Tesla cruisers when the Abrams has a solid 1 range advantage over them. A US player can initiate the fight at will and just run away if you try to get in range.

[TeslaCruiser]

1 range is a tiny advantage maybe YOU can't reach them but is not that hard

[mevitar]

Topics merged.
 

Snipe the Aeroblazes using foxtrots or rushing Tesla cruisers if you want to just spam Wolfhounds. 4 Foxtrots one-hit any unit he can field and do great area damage as well.

"Foxtrots" and "snipe" does not fit in one sentence. They have been modified and are to deal with clumped units now, not to snipe singular targets.
And using fighters to snipe anti-air such as an Aeroblaze is very risky. It works vs T1 AA, but not so much vs T3.
 

Aeroblazes effectively shut down my Wolfhounds, Athena cannons can siege really well and even do alot of damage in a large engagement.

SCUDs have higher range than Athenas. Use them vs stationary units. It will either force an engagement or make him move away (or he'll keep losing his stuff if he's not paying attention).
They might also be able to snipe Aeroblazes if he doesn't have too many of them.

Use Rhino and Terror Drone drops into his base.

Use Tesla Troopers together with Tesla Cruisers.
 

>pillbox (keep it ready don't deploy use for anti-scout/defend)

Sentry Gun

Edited by mevitar, 26 March 2017 - 09:56 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

Right,  crack knuckle, time to start popping. The first thing about the USA faction is that while their units are fast and DPS heavy, they are relatively squishy. For example, Warhawks can be taken down simply by a couple Flak troopers, same with Storm Childs. Bulldogs are laughably one of the most squishy MBT in MO but they should not be underestimated with their flashbangs. You thought USA was about drops and Abrams? WRONG! USA is about buffs and debuffs. To list a few, Warhawk fire rate buff, Mercury armor debuff, Bulldog damage debuff, Hummingbird damage AND movement debuff, and Riot troopers infantry hoard debuff. I say that because Riot troopers carry thermal nuclear flashbangs that will thin out hoards of infantry in less than three seconds. 

 

The faction relies heavily on Mercury satellite to deal with clumps of armor because of their lack of anti heavy armor aoe. Play around the mercury and see what you can do. Para drops are actually Easily counter able. USA has to spend 1000 credits to build the air control center, then spend 3000 every Para/Bloodhound combo. That is 4000 credits you should be ahead of. A few sentry guns can take care of 3000 credits worth of units. Usually, I'll drop on top of Tech Buildings to give my money's worth, but now I actually found dropping reinforcements right on top of the fight one my favorite things to do now. As for the Abrams vs Teslacruisers debate, Teslacruisers win hands down. With an industrial plant, the Tesla Cruiser is actually cheaper than the Abrams. One range does not matter, I repeat, one range is such an insignificant amount of an advantage I actually find it hilarious people are actually bringing it up. I only ever found that extra range to be useful two entire times while playing dozens of USA games. It takes only a split second for a Tesla Cruiser to close that distant and start EMP locking the Abrams. Not to mention the Tesla Cruiser has 50 more health than the Abrams. If you are wondering why the hell is a 9x9 block of Abrams literally unkillable by anything, that's probably just then Back Warp ability in play. A good USA player will abuse the living fuck out of this ability + Hummingbird. I say that but I haven't seen anyone besides me build it. I could go on all day about how to beat USA and allies in General in the tiniest of details, but I will abstain. However, I will make the three rules of thumb playing against USA, can't give away all my secrets now can I? 

 

Rule 1: Macro well! This goes without saying, but macroing well against a harassment heavy faction spells doom for them. There were times where I have killed waves upon waves of Soviet forces with Abrams + Hummingbird + Seal/Tanya combo under the protection of the Gap Generator, but those are far and few. Build up a huge army, back it up with Nuclear arms, and then split your army to Surround your enemy. Just basic RTS things. 

 

Rule:2 Build anti-air. Warhawks, Stormchilds, and Rocketeers are all fragile, but easily amassed air units USA has. If you do fail to build air defense, USA will stomp you with the increased fire bonus from Warhawks buffing Abrams and back door Barracudas sniping your nukes. 

 

Rule:3 Counter Harassment. Expect Seal drops, expect Tanya drops, expect para drops, and definitely expect mass amounts of Abrams. By mitigating your losses from harassment and counter harassing with a Borillo filled with Pyros, you will gain the upper hand in terms of power supply, tech, etc. Just remember to target power plants if at all possible. Slowing down production by 50% in a tech rush game like MO is basically cheese. 

 

Honestly, USA is a much easier opponent to play against if you just pick China against them. Can't do shit to a tech rushing, Armadillo spamming PeaceKeeper..... sigh I find fighting LC and Russia so much easier than fighting China, so just pick China instead. 

 

God just thinking about China rolling me is getting me depressed. 

[RushingRasputin]

Rule 1: Macro well! This goes without saying, but macroing well against a harassment heavy faction spells doom for them. There were times where I have killed waves upon waves of Soviet forces with Abrams + Hummingbird + Seal/Tanya combo under the protection of the Gap Generator, but those are far and few. Build up a huge army, back it up with Nuclear arms, and then split your army to Surround your enemy. Just basic RTS things. 

 

Rule:2 Build anti-air. Warhawks, Stormchilds, and Rocketeers are all fragile, but easily amassed air units USA has. If you do fail to build air defense, USA will stomp you with the increased fire bonus from Warhawks buffing Abrams and back door Barracudas sniping your nukes. 

 

Rule:3 Counter Harassment. Expect Seal drops, expect Tanya drops, expect para drops, and definitely expect mass amounts of Abrams. By mitigating your losses from harassment and counter harassing with a Borillo filled with Pyros, you will gain the upper hand in terms of power supply, tech, etc. Just remember to target power plants if at all possible. Slowing down production by 50% in a tech rush game like MO is basically cheese. 

 

Honestly, USA is a much easier opponent to play against if you just pick China against them. Can't do shit to a tech rushing, Armadillo spamming PeaceKeeper..... sigh I find fighting LC and Russia so much easier than fighting China, so just pick China instead. 

 

God just thinking about China rolling me is getting me depressed. 

I cant believe how much replies I got in this thread. Thanks for the support.

I actually hate playing China as I find them really monotonous. I would also like to think my macro is generally good. I do get alot of victories against US deathballs but the slight range advantage and overall DPS of the Abrams (further buffed by Warhawks) make it really hard.  TCs would win in small engagements, but when you arent stunlocking the backlines, then it becomes a problem. Its only when I get them fully committed and drop an Overcharge when I win decisively. However if I do knockout a couple of Aeroblazes, Wolfhound squadrons would easily clean up. My counter harassment play with Russia is poor as well I would need more specific pointers besides the general soviet harassment tactics. I'm used with LC's subversive tactics on harassment and I do really well.

 

SCUDs have higher range than Athenas. Use them vs stationary units. It will either force an engagement or make him move away (or he'll keep losing his stuff if he's not paying attention).

They might also be able to snipe Aeroblazes if he doesn't have too many of them.

Use Rhino and Terror Drone drops into his base.

Use Tesla Troopers together with Tesla Cruisers. 

I used SCUDs in my last match and I was pleasantly satisfied with their performance. Actively engaging their Athenas discouraged them from picking off the infantry. I do have a trouble with Tesla Troopers as the Abrams lasers kills them quite fast. I find that Im better off getting an extra TC or two. Im not so sure on how to fit them in my army. Cram them in Tigrs? 

 

my build order for Russia

 

Barracks>PP>Refinery>WF>Refinery>PP>PP>Field Boureau>NReactor>Palace>WF

        >dogs, basic infantry>4-6 MINERS (+2 miners from refineries) / flack troopers can deal whit bulldogs just fine

        >pillbox (keep it ready don't deploy use for anti-scout/defend)

So I basically skip Russian tier 1 units, use T2 infantry to defend, and build a T3 army

If SW are on, build it IC>use borillos and Tank drop at the same time and use IC to take advantage of your split

                    Nuclear M

If SW are off, build more WF and or Industrial Plant

 

Keep your economy strong, stretch to gems, remember always gems first. If your enemy waits for you, use that time to build more miners, it is not crazy to have more than 8 miners in a lot of maps. Do not expend too much on defenses 1 single bunker cost a lot and is useless against tier 2 infantry like siege cadres. In the other hand, T3 defences are very useful on shock points, and flack cannons are good against Norio-choppers.

 

If you can prevent your enemy from scout you, don´t be afraid to sneak a DemoTruck, always aim for WF/airfield

Build Soviet Airbase at some point (after palace is an option) so you can use smoke bombers> 1 dustdevil+3 foxtrots is a nice combo to help you win a battle/harass infantry and a good way to kill Tanya/riot troopers.

Your T3 units have the damage to deal with US army, so don't be afraid to press ctrl+shift and send all in, OVERCHARGE + IC is just nasty

 

So a total to 6-8 miners? I usually have only 6 in the late game. How do you manage to protect 8 miners from harass, especially from raiding Bulldogs and Warhawks? 

[TeslaCruiser]

Minimum 6-8 miners / TBH some bulldogs and Warhawks isn't really a fast rush so you have the time to prepare your own defense.

The best way to protect from Harass is to be the harasser.. and that is not easy to learn but you still can protect your economy whit basic infantry + wall MCV + stretch to monies

 

Maybe we can have some games to see how it works

[NorthFireZ]

Or maybe I can be of service on the USA side of the match. Let's be honest Tesla, you're kind of hopeless on USA ;p

[mevitar]

I do have a trouble with Tesla Troopers as the Abrams lasers kills them quite fast. I find that Im better off getting an extra TC or two. Im not so sure on how to fit them in my army. Cram them in Tigrs?

If you don't know where to keep them, keep them with Volkov, so he's harder to find and target. They all benefit from Overcharge, so it's a pretty good synergy there.